Popular Post Lamanite Posted October 18, 2012 Popular Post Posted October 18, 2012 Link"I understand that some doubts have arisen in your mind. I don’t know for sure what they are, but I imagine they are ones I have heard before. Probably some of them I have entertained in my own mind. And perhaps some of them I still harbor myself....I have no glib solace to offer. I will not bore you or insult your spiritual maturity with injunctions to pray harder, to fast more, to read your scriptures. I know you have been traveling that route across a parched desert. But do let me repeat here three simple ideas; Be patient; remember; and take solace in the fellowship of the desolate." [emphasis added]Absolutely Love Terryl! Brilliant.Big UP!Lamanite 10
sunstoned Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 LinkAbsolutely Love Terryl! Brilliant.Big UP!LamaniteExcellent!
cesc101 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 this is absolutely brilliant. too bad we don't to elect who we want as a GA, trust me, all my votes would have gone Terryl's way... [ lol ]
Tacenda Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Thanks for posting this Lamanite. Makes me love him all the more. Makes me also remember that I was told to repent for believing or looking at information on the internet that might not be all the way true of past church leaders. Very different approaches here.
cesc101 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Nice comment Tacenda,but are you sure what you "remember" is entirely how the speaker intended you to remember it? 1
Lamanite Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 Sometimes I feel a tad bit isolated in the Church for various reasons, but tonight I felt as if my compartment within Mormonism may have more occupants than I often realize.Big UP!Lamanite
Lamanite Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Nice comment Tacenda,but are you sure what you "remember" is entirely how the speaker intended you to remember it?Of course the actual events Tacenda is referring to are not exactly duplicated in her recollections. Does it really matter? Tacenda's recollection is her reality. And by many standards that makes it true.What's awesome is that she identified with an approach that helped her interact with her religion (I'm assuming here) and perhaps the world in a more positive way. What a wonderful experience it is when we find and embrace new and remembered truths.Big UP!Lamanite Edited October 18, 2012 by Lamanite
cesc101 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Sometimes I feel a tad bit isolated in the Church for various reasons, but tonight I felt as if my compartment within Mormonism may have more occupants than I often realize.Big UP!Lamanitedon't we all?! 1
cesc101 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 The thing I love most about mormoism, is that we can all fit into a larger frame of it - no matter how far our individual believes are different from every other person's.I just love that framework called Mormonism! 1
Lamanite Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) The thing I love most about mormoism, is that we can all fit into a larger frame of it - no matter how far our individual believes are different from every other person's.I just love that framework called Mormonism!Insert picture of Sterling McMurrinBig UP!Lamanite Edited October 18, 2012 by Lamanite
Tacenda Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Nice comment Tacenda,but are you sure what you "remember" is entirely how the speaker intended you to remember it?It was how I understood it. The fact that I apparently have read something that may have exaggerated a past leader in a negative way and then have doubts then puts me on the road of needing repentance is the opposite view Terryl Givens supplies to a doubter. I guess it helps people like me to feel accepted and then loved back into the church, though physically I'm still there. And to read Terryl saying he'd probably had some of the same doubts at one point in his life, was also helpful. Edited October 18, 2012 by Tacenda
cesc101 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Tacenda,I love that yours summary.The Truth is, we all have doubts (at one point or the other). My teacher once told me doubt is the 1st step in learning the truth (but in the end, what we - subjectively - subscribe to as 'truth' is a personal affair).I only try to see the good in I have embraced
Lamanite Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Terryl's ideas remind me a lot of Hugh B. Brown."We are grateful in the Church and in this great university that the freedom, dignity and integrity of the individual is basic in Church doctrine as well as in democracy. Here we are free to think and express our opinions. Fear will not stifle thought, as is the case in some areas which have not yet emerged from the Dark Ages. God himself refuses to trammel man's free agency even though its exercise sometimes teaches painful lessons. Both creative science and revealed religion find their fullest and truest expression in the climate of freedom."I hope that you will develop the questing spirit. Be unafraid of new ideas for they are the stepping stones of progress. You will of course respect the opinions of others but be unafraid to dissent—if you are informed."Now I have mentioned freedom to express your thoughts, but I caution you that your thoughts and expressions must meet competition in the market place of thought, and in that competition truth will emerge triumphant. Only error needs to fear freedom of expression. Seek truth in all fields, and in that search you will need at least three virtues; courage, zest, and modesty. The ancients put that thought in the form of a prayer. They said, 'From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth, from the laziness that is content with half truth, from the arrogance that thinks it has all truth—O God of truth deliver us'."Big UP!Lamanite Edited October 18, 2012 by Lamanite 1
changed Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 seek learning, even by study and also by faith...(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:118)I think that we should seek learning through study - but "study" must be balanced with learning through "faith". The simple answers really are the ones where you learn through faith. There is no substitute for communion with the Spirit. 1
volgadon Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 ....I have no glib solace to offer. I will not bore you or insult your spiritual maturity with injunctions to pray harder, to fast more, to read your scriptures.Wonderful. And yet, yet....
Bart Burk Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 LinkAbsolutely Love Terryl! Brilliant.Big UP!LamaniteYou know I could accept Givens statement as long as we don't think our beliefs have eternal consequences.
DBMormon Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 this is absolutely brilliant. too bad we don't to elect who we want as a GA, trust me, all my votes would have gone Terryl's way... [ lol ]Great Idea.... While I love the 15 men who head the church.... if it was up for votewe would have (based on cloning being fruitful.three Brad Wilcox'sfour Terryl Given's and eight Elder Hollands
Lamanite Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) I wonder if this sentiment will carry over to this board:I have no glib solace to offer. I will not bore you or insult your spiritual maturity with injunctions to pray harder, to fast more, to read your scriptures.The glib responses are of special concern to me. I won't name names. Big UP!Lamanite Edited October 18, 2012 by Lamanite
mfbukowski Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 You know I could accept Givens statement as long as we don't think our beliefs have eternal consequences.That is not Mormon doctrine, interestingly enough.The whole idea is that we progress and learn eternally. 1
Bart Burk Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 That is not Mormon doctrine, interestingly enough.The whole idea is that we progress and learn eternally.So are you saying that our beliefs in this life don't have eternal consequences? As one who at least leans towards a belief in universal reconciliation through Christ's atonement, I'm ok with that. I'm not sure I've heard many LDS who would agree with that. For that matter, most Christians (and many non-Christians) wouldn't lean that way. That's why religious arguments get so intense.
mfbukowski Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 So are you saying that our beliefs in this life don't have eternal consequences? As one who at least leans towards a belief in universal reconciliation through Christ's atonement, I'm ok with that. I'm not sure I've heard many LDS who would agree with that. For that matter, most Christians (and many non-Christians) wouldn't lean that way. That's why religious arguments get so intense.I think they have eternal consequences in the same way that any belief does- our whole lives and progressions are affected by mistakes we make, and right things we do as well.And certainly this life is a test - so I don't doubt that the decisions we make here are much more important than those we made and will make before and after this life is over.But I think it all will be evaluated by a loving God and we will all get what we are most happy with ultimately. Perhaps it is like a grade in a class where certain sections of the class are weighted heavily in one area and others less so, but ultimately we will all "pass" (except for the sons of perdition of course)Some of us might just squeak through with a D and others an A+, but ultimately I think those with a D will be "D students" who really don't care much about "school" and are more involved in other interests. Perhaps those who were D students will turn around and be able to get extra credit and bring their grade to a C+ or maybe even a B- but there will always be consequences for those periods where they probably actually merited an "F", but miraculously squeaked by with a D.This is of course incredibly simplistic, but perhaps it is a good analogy. Anyway, I think it is a good analogy.But we know that eventually "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess"...
blackstrap Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 To DB, you forgot a partridge in a pear tree.To mfb, I did an analysis of the grades of my high school students some years ago. I compared the marks in math from the very first major exam to the final grade. Interestingly, about 40% of the students had marks which didn't change by more than 5% . Over 60% had marks which did not vary by more than 10 %. I checked this result over several years. It tells me something about people in general. It probably says something about my teaching also.
Nevo Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 this is absolutely brilliant. too bad we don't to elect who we want as a GA, trust me, all my votes would have gone Terryl's way... [ lol ]Like you, I am a big fan of Brother Givens. However, if he's going to join the ranks of the General Authorities he should probably take a refresher on Genesis."Abraham lied about Sariah being his sister. Isaac deceives Esau and steals both his birthright and his blessing."
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