swfarnsworth Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Yes, and many return to church after being inactive, sometimes for years (like me... 34 years as an inactive but always considered myself Mormon, and have now been enthusiastically reactivated 17 years). I've previously said, and will reiterate, I'm so thankful that home and visiting teachers did not give up on me. And bless my dear mom for seeing that my records were always forwarded.GGYou've inspired me to get 100% home teaching this month. (Though to my credit, I am very good about berating my companion.) Edited October 12, 2012 by swfarnsworth
Calm Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 You've inspired me to get 100% home teaching this month. (Though to my credit, I am very good about berating my companion.)Evidence that positive reinforcement is a much more effective agent of change than negative condemnation.
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) And what power would the "mainstream" have to stop them?The power of peer pressure and opinion. They wouldn't do it if they felt that their actions were highly disapproved of by mainstream Evangelicalism. At the very least, the mainstream would be making it clear that they do not represent their beliefs. Silence is a sign of agreement. The fact that they say nothing implies that they approve of their actions. Edited October 12, 2012 by zerinus
3DOP Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) I thought you had been here long enough to know better.Zerinus and friends...Maybe you read my question without taking into consideration the source. I thought I had been on here long enough for you to know what I meant if others don't. I think I recognize the distinction between Restoration and Reformation, and have argued that Restoration thinking is Protestantism brought to its logical conclusion. My impulsive question was undoubtedly not directed to the idea that you were trying to explore. My apologies for that. More on similarities between two different kinds of Protestantism later if anyone is interested. Edited October 12, 2012 by 3DOP
Gervin Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Who are those people then who on the Internet and other media oppose and wage war not just against Mormonism, but against practically everything else that is not Evangelicalism, including Catholicism, JWs, Christian Science etc. Who are the "counter-cult" movements like CARM etc. who spread this kind of hate-mongering? Who are the "street preachers" who come to Salt Lake City at conference times carrying hateful signs calling Mormons names, pulling the Book of Mormon on a string along the street etc.? They are all from the "Evangelical" movement. How many times have you seen or heard Evangelical pastors and ministers (who berate Mormonism and other faiths from the pulpit) say a word disapproving of those kinds of behaviours and practices? I know not of any. This is not and never has been the Christian faith. Christianity preaches the gospel and lives at peace with its neighbours. It doesn't preach hatred against any other faith.Your blanket judgement states:"It has become a hate-mongering anti-religion rather than one of teaching and promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. It spends more time tearing down other people's religions than teaching gospel truths."You obviously can't support this statement. You've convinced yourself that the worst of the internet, street preachers, and other fanatics represent the essence of the entirety of Evangelicalism (or Protestantism). As a result you spread hate. Physician, heal thyself. 1
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 I think I recognize the distinction between Restoration and Reformation, and have argued that Restoration thinking is Protestantism brought to its logical conclusion.From my point of view, there is no such thing as "restoration movement," or even "restoration thinking". There is one and only one Restoration Reality, and that is Mormonism. It is only after that Restoration Reality had taken place that others jumped on the bandwagon, and created what has been misnamed "restoration movement," or "restoration thinking". We need to get that right first. Mormonism is not "part" of a "restoration movement". It is the one and only Restoration Reality. That is the right place to start.More on similarities between two different kinds of Protestantism later if anyone is interested.I think you are starting off on the wrong note by calling it a "restoration thinking;" or as some people have called it, "restoration movement". Mormonism is part of neither. It is unique and stands alone from any such "movement" or "thinking". It is the one and only Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ on earth. Once we get that into proper perspective, you are welcome to discuss your point, whatever that is.
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 Your blanket judgement states:"It has become a hate-mongering anti-religion rather than one of teaching and promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. It spends more time tearing down other people's religions than teaching gospel truths."You obviously can't support this statement. You've convinced yourself that the worst of the internet, street preachers, and other fanatics represent the essence of the entirety of Evangelicalism (or Protestantism). As a result you spread hate. Physician, heal thyself.I think I already explained that. If you read all of my previous posts, including those I have written in response to calmoriah, it should answer to your question.
Damien the Leper Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 I'm not concerned with other churches and their statistics.Is there a way to differentiate or propose a logical ratio of inactives to general membership and a ratio of non-believing with general membership. What conclusions could we draw from such a statistical study? What does it say about the church? About the member? About the sales pitch leading into baptism? I understand that this is unlikely given the size of the church but it would be an interesting study to perhaps see what the church is doing right and what its strong points are and then see where there could be improvement and increased retention.
Tacenda Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Can you imagine the Evangelicals having the missionary force like the LDS? That's probably where their angst or anger comes from. They probably feel like it's war. Now with more missionaries coming on the horizon it'll only get worse. They have a problem with our missionaries proselytizing to their families. Edited October 12, 2012 by Tacenda
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 I have never lived in the Mormon Corridor, so most of my friends and neighbors are not LDS and are primarily Protestant. Anecdotally I haven't noticed any uptick in anger towards the Church or its members - particularly over its growth. Quite the contrary, there is a tendency to ''live and let live".
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 From my point of view, there is no such thing as "restoration movement," or even "restoration thinking". There is one and only one Restoration Reality, and that is Mormonism. It is only after that Restoration Reality had taken place that others jumped on the bandwagon, and created what has been misnamed "restoration movement," or "restoration thinking". We need to get that right first. Mormonism is not "part" of a "restoration movement". It is the one and only Restoration Reality. That is the right place to start.I think you are starting off on the wrong note by calling it a "restoration thinking;" or as some people have called it, "restoration movement". Mormonism is part of neither. It is unique and stands alone from any such "movement" or "thinking". It is the one and only Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ on earth. Once we get that into proper perspective, you are welcome to discuss your point, whatever that is.By that logic there was no Protestant Movement as the Lutherans were the original with all else being copy-cats. When a Restorationist Movement is mentioned it is an all-encompassing definition for the churches that believe, as we do, that they are restorers through divine intervention of the original truth of the Gospel. It's a category of theological origination and not something to take offense at. 1
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Do you mean inactives or no-longer-believing? Inactives still believe. True non-believers don't remain members for very long. But to keep matters in perspective, you would have to do the same with Catholicism and Protestantism; and I think they would be worse off than we would be if their inactives were discounted.One of the reasons people become inactive is they stop believing. Not all LDS who have list their faith write virulent missives and stomp off in anger. Most if them just go quietly on their way without much if a peep. So, in actives definitely include those who have list their faith - but do not desire to talk about it or publicly announce their abandonment of the Church's teachings. Most of the inscribed I know and have met fall into they category of quietly non believing.
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Typo!! "Inscribed" in my post above should read "Inactive". My apologies.
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 And "list" should be "lost". SighHow do you edit a post here?
Tacenda Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 I have never lived in the Mormon Corridor, so most of my friends and neighbors are not LDS and are primarily Protestant. Anecdotally I haven't noticed any uptick in anger towards the Church or its members - particularly over its growth. Quite the contrary, there is a tendency to ''live and let live".It's definitely local then. Here in MorCor. It is coming full force. We have TV20, not sure if you do. But nearly every night there is a program that reeks anti mormon. And I did indeed get caught up in it. Learned some things about the church I was unaware of etc.
Tacenda Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) And "list" should be "lost". SighHow do you edit a post here?There is usually an edit button at the bottom right corner. Possibly you won't have one yet, not sure. Edited October 12, 2012 by Tacenda
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 I think where I live currently (Bible belt) it's much more of an anti-Muslim focus. Where I've lived in the past (New England) there was a general anti-religious undercurrent not aimed at any one particular sect. When I was growing up in the Bible Belt there were definitely anti-Mormon movements. Not so much today. Here and there you will find some sporadic stuff, but it really does seem to be focused on Muslims right now. Interestingly enough there aren't a lot of Muslims in this part if the country. So, that anger is mostly directed at supporting overseas wars I think. But, that gets into politics.
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 There is usually an edit button at the bottom right corner. Possibly you won't have one yet, not sure.Hmmm... I don't see an edit button. Perhaps it is because I post from my phone?
bluebell Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Hmmm... I don't see an edit button. Perhaps it is because I post from my phone?I think you have to have posted a certain number of times before the edit button appears. I don't know the number, though you should be close by now i think.
Tacenda Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Hmmm... I don't see an edit button. Perhaps it is because I post from my phone?Or tap on what you've written and then scroll down and you'll see an edit button.
Batgirlsmom Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Well, it popped up when I tapped on my post! I guess I hit the required number of posts! Thank you for the help!
shalamabobbi Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Are Mormons not Protestant?In the same sense that the religion that Jesus established was Protestant in comparison with the orthodox establishment of His day (which originally was established by Himself as Jehovah through prophets). New wine - old bottles, etc.
Calm Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Well, it popped up when I tapped on my post! I guess I hit the required number of posts! Thank you for the help!25 posts is the magic number.
MiserereNobis Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Mormonism is part of neither. It is unique and stands alone from any such "movement" or "thinking". It is the one and only Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ on earth. Once we get that into proper perspective, you are welcome to discuss your point, whatever that is.This made me laugh out loud. In other words, once we accept that Mormonism is the one true church, then we can have a discussion.You're not very good at inter-religious dialogue, zerinus 1
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 This made me laugh out loud. In other words, once we accept that Mormonism is the one true church, . . .Not really. I am not asking him to take as a "given" that Mormonism is the "one true Church". What I am claiming as a "given" is that Mormonism is the only and unique claim to a Restoration. There is no such thing as a "restoration movement" of which Mormonism happens to be a "part". It is unique and stands alone in making such a claim. That is what I am proposing as a "given". There no other church that claimed a Restoration before Mormonism such as Mormonism has done; and all other churches who have made such claims after it have been copycats or apostate offshoots of the same. That is the "given" basis on which I am prepared to discuss what he was proposing to discuss.
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