zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk...anada-19892837#It proves that Protestantism (especially Evangelicalism) in the US is in decline; whereas Mormonism is on the rise.
Calm Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 No, we are Restorationists if anything....We do not claim any lineage or connection with Protestants. 1
Garden Girl Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Are Mormons not Protestant?Hi 3DOPNo, Mormonism is not protestant... we are a restorationist movement standing alone in our origins. The protestant movement was started by Martin Luther(?) in protest over some of the early church's doctrine... I'm weak on who/what but the "reformers" came out in protest and that's where the term protestant comes from. As I understand it, Catholicism isn't part of protestants either...Anyone who knows the history please correct me...GG
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 Are Mormons not Protestant?I thought you had been here long enough to know better.
Law22 Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk...anada-19892837#It proves that Protestantism (especially Evangelicalism) in the US is in decline; whereas Mormonism is on the rise.No, what is on the rise is people who claim no religious affiliation. 2
altersteve Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 No, what is on the rise is people who claim no religious affiliation.Mormonism is on the rise too. It has been since 1830.
spartacus Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Others here are better prepared to correct your OP, but I'll do what I can since they haven't, yet.This article doesn't say anything about the "decline" of Protestants (especially Evangelicals), let alone prove it, let alone anything about Mormonism. It only speaks of the rise of a new substantial group - non-affiliates. The rise of one group has to mean a difference in the percentage of the whole made up by other groups, including Mormonism - if atheists & non-affiliated spiritual people are taking up a larger percentage of the population then not only Protestants but also Mormons and all other groups for that matter are taking up a smaller (than they were before). But again this does not necessitate nor even indicate a decline in population or even in rate of growth - these are the only proper definitions of "decline" when it comes to member numbers.Now this doesn't mean that Protestant groups' rate of growth has not declined, but LDS growth rates have declined in recent years. But numbers can be deceiving in all kinds of ways - are births true "converts"? are people living as Protestant or LDS not closet atheists willing to represent themselves as the latter in discreet poles? are church number reports accurate or "optimistic"?But, for another perspective, Scripture speaks of "falling away"'s and "remnants" and "tares" and general unified degradation of the world in the end of times. So... numbers are nothing to boast about. In fact, there are stories in the Bible that specifically speak against numbering things (David). 1
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk...anada-19892837#It proves that Protestantism (especially Evangelicalism) in the US is in decline; whereas Mormonism is on the rise.I had said in another thread that Evangelicalism was in decline, and some of our friends had questioned that; here is the proof. The sad part of it is that those who become disillusioned with Evangelicalism seem to abandon religion altogether, and simply become irreligious.The causes of disillusionment with Evangelicalism is another interesting question worth exploring. I think it has lost its capacity (if it ever had any) to "feed the sheep". It has become a hate-mongering anti-religion rather than one of teaching and promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. It spends more time tearing down other people's religions than teaching gospel truths. Sooner or later people will cotton on to it that there is no substance to such a religion, and will be disillusioned. I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind when He said, "feed my sheep". The purpose of true religion is to give people something to hope for, live for, and look forward to; not something to fight against. Neither Jesus nor His Apostles spent their time tearing down other people's religions. Edited October 12, 2012 by zerinus 2
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 No, what is on the rise is people who claim no religious affiliation.Yes, but where are they coming from? The population of the US is not rising that fast. Even if it did, why are they not adopting Protestantism as their forefathers did, instead of just becoming irreligious?
TAO Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Spartacus, naw, we are still growing in % size of population as well, here in the US, if I remember right. Just not as much as non-affiliated and atheists.
Damien the Leper Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 I'm curious as to whether that rise would be affected if all the members on the church records who no longer believe were to remove their names. What would the church membership number be if this were to happen. 2
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 I'm curious as to whether that rise would be affected if all the members on the church records who no longer believe were to remove their names. What would the church membership number be if this were to happen.Do you mean inactives or no-longer-believing? Inactives still believe. True non-believers don't remain members for very long. But to keep matters in perspective, you would have to do the same with Catholicism and Protestantism; and I think they would be worse off than we would be if their inactives were discounted.
TAO Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Yeah, Val alot of the people on the records and still think of themsleves as Mormons... they just don't come to church all too often. It's a problem we gotta fix. Edited October 12, 2012 by TAO 1
Garden Girl Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Yeah, Val alot of the people on the records and still think of themsleves as Mormons... they just don't come to church all too often. It's a problem we gotta fix.Yes, and many return to church after being inactive, sometimes for years (like me... 34 years as an inactive but always considered myself Mormon, and have now been enthusiastically reactivated 17 years). I've previously said, and will reiterate, I'm so thankful that home and visiting teachers did not give up on me. And bless my dear mom for seeing that my records were always forwarded. GG 3
mfbukowski Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 I'm curious as to whether that rise would be affected if all the members on the church records who no longer believe were to remove their names. What would the church membership number be if this were to happen.You can wonder that about any religion or denomination. I am sure the numbers are similar.
Gervin Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 I had said in another thread that Evangelicalism was in decline, and some of our friends had questioned that; here is the proof. The sad part of it is that those who become disillusioned with Evangelicalism seem abandon religion altogether, and simply become irreligious.The causes of disillusionment with Evangelicalism is another interesting question worth exploring. I think it has lost its capacity (if it ever had any) to "feed the sheep". It has become a hate-mongering anti-religion rather than one of teaching and promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. It spends more time tearing down other people's religions than teaching gospel truths. Sooner or later people will cotton on to it that there is no substance to such a religion, and will be disillusioned. I don't think this is what Jesus had in mind when He said, "feed my sheep". The purpose of true religion is to give people something to hope for, live for, and look forward to; not something to fight against. Neither Jesus nor His Apostles spent their time tearing down other people's religions.I believe I took exception to your blanket statement about Evangelicalism and showed that world-wide Evangelicalism is on the rise. You then amended your statement to only American Evangelicalism. Feel free to link that thread if you think my characterization is wrong.You must posses a high-degree of confidence and information to make such a far-reaching statement as "It has become a hate-mongering anti-religion rather than one of teaching and promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. It spends more time tearing down other people's religions than teaching gospel truths." I request that you back that up with some facts. My guess is that you can't. What we're left with is the Gospel of Zerinus which is merely electronic hate-mongering. Father. Of lies.
Calm Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 (if it ever had any) to "feed the sheep".Its past success over so many years indicates that it did (and considering the current numbers still claiming allegiance it does) manage to do just that.
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 You must posses a high-degree of confidence and information to make such a far-reaching statement as "It has become a hate-mongering anti-religion rather than one of teaching and promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. It spends more time tearing down other people's religions than teaching gospel truths." I request that you back that up with some facts. My guess is that you can't. What we're left with is the Gospel of Zerinus which is merely electronic hate-mongering. Father. Of lies.Who are those people then who on the Internet and other media oppose and wage war not just against Mormonism, but against practically everything else that is not Evangelicalism, including Catholicism, JWs, Christian Science etc. Who are the "counter-cult" movements like CARM etc. who spread this kind of hate-mongering? Who are the "street preachers" who come to Salt Lake City at conference times carrying hateful signs calling Mormons names, pulling the Book of Mormon on a string along the street etc.? They are all from the "Evangelical" movement. How many times have you seen or heard Evangelical pastors and ministers (who berate Mormonism and other faiths from the pulpit) say a word disapproving of those kinds of behaviours and practices? I know not of any. This is not and never has been the Christian faith. Christianity preaches the gospel and lives at peace with its neighbours. It doesn't preach hatred against any other faith. 1
Calm Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 According to the wiki, over a quarter of Americans identify as Evangelical. If one compares the numbers of active minsters and members, the countercult ministries and their members are hardly Likely to be more than a very small percentage.
altersteve Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 How many times have you seen or heard Evangelical pastors and ministers (who berate Mormonism and other faiths from the pulpit) say a word disapproving of those kinds of behaviours and practices? I know not of any.Well, there's Richard Mouw, for one.
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Its past success over so many years indicates that it did (and considering the current numbers still claiming allegiance it does) manage to do just that.I am sure it is better to believe as an Evangelical than to not believe at all; other than that I believe in what Jacob has written:Jacob 5:30 And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard and the servant went down into the vineyard; and they came to the tree whose natural branches had been broken off, and the wild branches had been grafted in; and behold all sorts of fruit did cumber the tree.31 And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard did taste of the fruit, every sort according to its number. And the Lord of the vineyard said: Behold, this long time have we nourished this tree, and I have laid up unto myself against the season much fruit.32 But behold, this time it hath brought forth much fruit, and there is none of it which is good. And behold, there are all kinds of bad fruit; and it profiteth me nothing, notwithstanding all our labor; and now it grieveth me that I should lose this tree. Edited October 12, 2012 by zerinus
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Well, there's Richard Mouw, for one.He is a rare exception---and much derided by the rest. I was talking about the rule, not the exceptions. Edited October 12, 2012 by zerinus
zerinus Posted October 12, 2012 Author Posted October 12, 2012 According to the wiki, over a quarter of Americans identify as Evangelical. If one compares the numbers of active minsters and members, the countercult ministries and their members are hardly Likely to be more than a very small percentage.Yes; but what they do has the approval of the rest of the movement. If the mainstream disapproved of their actions, they wouldn't do it.
Calm Posted October 12, 2012 Posted October 12, 2012 Yes; but what they do has the approval of the rest of the movement. If the mainstream disapproved of their actions, they wouldn't do it.And what power would the "mainstream" have to stop them?
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