A Mormon And A Catholic

[KevinG]

We were invited to a Confirmation service for friends in Provo, Utah. After Sacrament we ran over to the Catholic church (mission style with Jesuit priests in robes playing guitars). It was quite lovely. We walked into the building and everyone went silent and stared at us Gringos in the lobby holding our blonde blue eyed children. I'm sure they thought we'd entered the wrong building. Just then we heard our friends name and "Amigo" and the an aisle opened up, smiles brightened and we were ushered to seats close to the action.

I didn't understand a word other than Deus and Jesu Christo, but the service was beautiful and we were made very welcome. After the ceremony we went to their house where a large party took place. Our children were ushered off to play and we were seated where a line of aunts, grandmas and mothers paraded by with heaping plates of food until we tried everyone's dishes and especially grandmas salsas. I could barely walk afterwards.

The Hispanic Catholics in Provo were a very gracious and kind people. We were always welcomed as good friends when they gathered for events.

[Carborendum]

After reading the first couple of pages on this thread, I was shocked to hear that there are a significant number of Catholics that harbor resentment against Mormons. I thought they were mostly ambivalent, as I am about them.

So, I asked a Catholic at work what he thought about it. He said he was largely ambivalent, and pretty much every Catholic he knew was pretty much the same. I'm in Houston, TX. So, we both shrugged and smiled and went on being co-workers largely ambivalent about each others' religion.

[why me]

After reading the first couple of pages on this thread, I was shocked to hear that there are a significant number of Catholics that harbor resentment against Mormons. I thought they were mostly ambivalent, as I am about them.

So, I asked a Catholic at work what he thought about it. He said he was largely ambivalent, and pretty much every Catholic he knew was pretty much the same. I'm in Houston, TX. So, we both shrugged and smiled and went on being co-workers largely ambivalent about each others' religion.

I think that most catholics are tolerant of mormons. Most have no idea about them at all. Most catholics just go about their lives without a thought about mormons. And most look at actions of the individual and not the faith. But...

[Carborendum]

As for the issue of The LDS and Catholic Church, it is an unfortunate relic. I wonder though, if McConkie's "forget everything I said" can be applied to his statements about the Catholic Church.

First of all, since the Church usually gives GAs wide latitude in their personal publications, it is likely that a lot of opinion and rumor gets spread by that loose policy as it is. But McConkie's comments in the first edition of MD were SO off and the book, SO popular that they felt the had to ask him to correct the two most controversial issues.

That alone should say something. The Church doesn't usually bother with correcting every comment. But they did so here.

Here's what bugs me about how the population as a whole treats it.

Many missionaries (not many people have spoken about it since then) that I served with had the opinion that his statements were true and McConkie was *forced* to make the change. They also believed that he only did so grudgingly and he still truly believed the first edition comments. Not true.

Second hand report: A ward mission leader with whom I served was a lawyer working on an issue of church/state separation with a particular LDS doctrine (this was about 10 years before I served my mission). He was allowed to meet with Elder McConkie. After they were done talking about that business issue, he thought he'd take the time to ask the Elder about the two controversial issues.

This WML expressed that McConkie was in complete agreement with the second edition statements. He did not make the changes grudgingly. He received correction. He realized his error and made the changes accordingly.

So, when he says "forget everything I said", it was not an effort to cover the Church. It was an honest admission of a mistake.

[Calm]

He seemed to me the kind of person who would rather not publish it at all then publish it with something he didn't believe no matter who told him to do so.

[Calm]

After reading the first couple of pages on this thread, I was shocked to hear that there are a significant number of Catholics that harbor resentment against Mormons.

Percentagewise I suspect it's quite low and may be more present in converts bringing with them some of their past attitudes than life long Catholics. Edited August 18, 2012 by calmoriah

[Bart Burk]

After reading the first couple of pages on this thread, I was shocked to hear that there are a significant number of Catholics that harbor resentment against Mormons. I thought they were mostly ambivalent, as I am about them.

So, I asked a Catholic at work what he thought about it. He said he was largely ambivalent, and pretty much every Catholic he knew was pretty much the same. I'm in Houston, TX. So, we both shrugged and smiled and went on being co-workers largely ambivalent about each others' religion.

I don't think most Catholics even think, care or know much about Mormons. Usually it is exMormons talking about Mormons on CAF.

[Storm Rider]

I don't think most Catholics even think, care or know much about Mormons. Usually it is exMormons talking about Mormons on CAF.

When a Catholic and a LDS meet it is personal and up front. I have never received anything other than a warm relationship. However, an ex-Mormon, that is a beast of a completely different stripe. They have a huge burden of preconceived notions of what I am and what I am not; they cannot see me as a person, but rather they are only capable of seeing the monster they carry around on their back. It is very evident on CAF that exMormons rule the day on LDS related topics and anyone, anyone, the counters what they say is quickly tossed from the site. It is a very unwholesome place and is not a place where LDS and Catholics can learn about one another. Those few live in a hell of their own making and the Spirit has no place in them.

[why me]

I don't think most Catholics even think, care or know much about Mormons. Usually it is exMormons talking about Mormons on CAF.

That is my opinion also. The exmormons throughout lds history were the most rabid of the antimormons. It is also the case on the internet. But most catholics are tolerant and respect people who attempt to live good lives.

[volgadon]

If you think his portrayal of the RCC was a fair and accurate one, I will have to disagree with you. He was a gracious man from what I know about him and generally a great scholar, if he was alive today I don't think he would mind me holding this opinion of his portrayal of the RCC in Jesus the Christ as I believe he would have changed his mind based on having learned of more accurate historical information.

His attitude in respect to the RCC was very English, entirely in keeping with his early life and later intellectual pursuits. As we are all, to a greater or lesser extent, products of our time, I would be surprised if I didn't find find that kind of anti-Catholic sentiments expressed by Talmage. Pleased, but surprised nonetheless. Even G. K. Chesterton and Hillaire Belloc were treated with suspicion in many quarters.

[3DOP]

When a Catholic and a LDS meet it is personal and up front. I have never received anything other than a warm relationship. However, an ex-Mormon, that is a beast of a completely different stripe. They have a huge burden of preconceived notions of what I am and what I am not; they cannot see me as a person, but rather they are only capable of seeing the monster they carry around on their back. It is very evident on CAF that exMormons rule the day on LDS related topics and anyone, anyone, the counters what they say is quickly tossed from the site. It is a very unwholesome place and is not a place where LDS and Catholics can learn about one another. Those few live in a hell of their own making and the Spirit has no place in them.

Storm Rider, hey.

I am glad you recognize that those people are not normal Catholics. If the pope sneezed they would think it was infallible.

[Biz]

Lo and behold, the White Horse Propehcy lives on in Sunday School. I just don't buy the statements made by a lot of you that have claimed to have only heard this a few times in your life. I hear it every few weeks! This time from the previous bishop of my ward in teaching Sunday School today.

[thesometimesaint]

All Indians walk in single file. I saw one do it once.

[Biz]

All Indians walk in single file. I saw one do it once.

I'm not so sure what your logical example applies to?

[Pahoran]

Lo and behold, the White Horse Propehcy lives on in Sunday School. I just don't buy the statements made by a lot of you that have claimed to have only heard this a few times in your life. I hear it every few weeks! This time from the previous bishop of my ward in teaching Sunday School today.

Lo and behold the very first time I heard of the "White Horse Prophecy" was when I heard that it was not authentic. President Joseph F. Smith, Joseph Smith's nephew, described it as "trash." I have never at any time heard it taught from the pulpit or offered as an authentic prophecy. I just don't buy the statements made by those who claim to hear it every few weeks. The only people I have seen talking about it in the last five years are anti-Mormon conspiracy theorists trying to exploit it the same way anti-Semites exploit "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion."

Incidentally, the Sunday School lesson today was from the Book of Mormon manual and was the last ten chapters of Alma. Not much scope for any white horses in that.

Regards,

Pahoran

[mfbukowski]

I don't think most Catholics even think, care or know much about Mormons. Usually it is exMormons talking about Mormons on CAF.

That place is a pit. I don't know how good Catholics even let them post. I think it must be fear that we are right.

[mfbukowski]

Incidentally, the Sunday School lesson today was from the Book of Mormon manual and was the last ten chapters of Alma. Not much scope for any white horses in that.

Well now there's your problem! The teacher stuck to the manual. Not much fun in that!

[Pahoran]

Well now there's your problem! The teacher stuck to the manual. Not much fun in that!

And in fact I was the teacher. Even less fun in that!

Mind you, I was only the substitute teacher. To get an idea of my substitute teaching style, google "Sister Mary Elephant."

Regards,

Pahoran

[why me]

That place is a pit. I don't know how good Catholics even let them post. I think it must be fear that we are right.

I think that you are right. It seems to be fear. Or that they made the wrong choice in converting to catholicism. It is sad because the former mormon catholics who post there seem to have an obsession.

I see nothing wrong with a mormon converting to catholicism as long as it makes them peaceful, content and satisfied with their spiritual life. However, I think that the atmosphere on the board is improving at least until the election is over. I don't think that it is useful to have the Republican candidate's religion referred to as a cult or bashed and it seems that the moderator is having a watchful eye over the mormon threads. And if Romney becomes president it will be even more difficult to mock or bash the mormon religion.

But if he loses then maybe the strident attacks against mormonism will return.

Edited August 27, 2012 by why me

[thesometimesaint]

Biz:

Lo and behold, the White Horse Propehcy lives on in Sunday School. I just don't buy the statements made by a lot of you that have claimed to have only heard this a few times in your life. I hear it every few weeks! This time from the previous bishop of my ward in teaching Sunday School today.

It is anecdotal evidence for which no one here can disagree or agree with. The Church has never accepted the so called White Horse Prophecy. What exactly is the Church to do about its members whom bring it up?

[Biz]

Biz:

It is anecdotal evidence for which no one here can disagree or agree with. The Church has never accepted the so called White Horse Prophecy. What exactly is the Church to do about its members whom bring it up?

I thought of something. It would be nice and I think useful if the Church also had on its official LDS.org website a section entitled, "We do not Believe this." Well forget any formal title, but I think it would be productive for them to catalog frequent misunderstood (for lack of a better word) FOLKLORE. Folklore essentially is just false doctrine, so I would like something like that to be on their website where members and non-members can get a strait story. My friend had a high councilman yesterday bring up the details of the White Horse Prophecy in his talk at the pulpit. So clearly we need some help and guidance over this misunderstood hearsay related Folklore.

What do you think? What would be reasonable for them to do?

Biz

[why me]

I thought of something. It would be nice and I think useful if the Church also had on its official LDS.org website a section entitled, "We do not Believe this." Well forget any formal title, but I think it would be productive for them to catalog frequent misunderstood (for lack of a better word) FOLKLORE. Folklore essentially is just false doctrine, so I would like something like that to be on their website where members and non-members can get a strait story. My friend had a high councilman yesterday bring up the details of the White Horse Prophecy in his talk at the pulpit. So clearly we need some help and guidance over this misunderstood hearsay related Folklore.

What do you think? What would be reasonable for them to do?

Biz

It would be reasonable to challenge the high councilman about his talk and set him straight about the white horse prophecy. This is how people learn what is folklore and what isn't---through conversation and dialogue with each other.

Of course the church can do this. But it is up to people to find it on the webpage and this is always not the case. But...conversation is the best way.

[thesometimesaint]

We could spend the rest of our lives stating what we don't believe. It is ultimately useless as some will continue to believe it anyway.

Sorry if I'm sounding too cynical, its been a bad day at Blackrock.

[selek1]

We could spend the rest of our lives stating what we don't believe. It is ultimately useless as some will continue to believe it anyway.

Sorry if I'm sounding too cynical, its been a bad day at Blackrock.

I don't think it's too cynical at all.

Look at all the effort wasted in trying to convince Rob Bowman the Earth is not, in fact, flat.

Those who wish to deceive themselves about us will find ways to do so...no matter what we say or what evidence we present.

Also...

...Blackrock?

[mfbukowski]

What do you think? What would be reasonable for them to do?

What is reasonable for them to do is what was done in my Stake under direction of our Area Authority 70's- who issued instructions to read the following over the pulpit:

...In accordance with the laws of their respective governments, members are encouraged to register to vote, to study issues and candidates carefully, and to vote for individuals whom they believe will act with integrity and sound judgment. Latter-day Saints have a special obligation to seek out, vote for, and uphold leaders who are honest, good, and wise (see D&C 98:10).

While affirming the right of expression on political and social issues, the Church is neutral regarding political parties, political platforms, and candidates for political office. ... HB2 p189 - 21.1.29

THAT is what is reasonable!