cursor Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Please note that "Deseret Bookshelf for Windows" exhibits a disturbing flaw—none of my maps are accessible! I've reported the problem to Deseret Book. Perhaps the next version will correct the issue. It has been reported within this thread that the Android version of Deseret Bookshelf properly provides access to the maps. While I don't know about the Apple version, my stepmother just bought an iPad just so that she could study Mormon's Codex in digital format. I've asked for a report on map accessibillity. I'll let you know what I find out.
cursor Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) I'm loving the hyperlinks to the hi-res maps in the ebook. (Good work Cursor!) Are you reading on a Windows, Android, or Apple device, canard78? Please tell me about the "hyperlinks to hi-res maps in the ebook." One of the complaints that I had months ago mentioned to my dad is that the map representation in the ebook version of An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon was so very poorly handled. I informed him (and he informed Deseret Book) that a reader should be able to very simply click/finger-tap on a hyperlink that would stimulate access to a JohnLSorenson.com website graphic that would be fully scalable (or perhaps in this case, a DeseretBook.com link). I sincerely hope that someone was listening. I'm anxious to hear your reply. (thx for the compliment, canard78. =) Edited October 7, 2013 by cursor 1
canard78 Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Are you reading on a Windows, Android, or Apple device, canard78? Please tell me about the "hyperlinks to hi-res maps in the ebook." One of the complaints that I had months ago mentioned to my dad is that the map representation in the ebook version of An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon was so very poorly handled. I informed him (and he informed Deseret Book) that a reader should be able to very simply click/finger-tap on a hyperlink that would stimulate access to a JohnLSorenson.com website graphic that would be fully scalable (or perhaps in this case, a DeseretBook.com link). I sincerely hope that someone was listening. I'm anxious to hear your reply. (thx for the compliment, canard78. =) Here are some screen grabs from their 'Bookshelf for Web' option: (edited for copyright reasons). I'll send you a link by PM... given it's your copyright 1
cursor Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Thanks. =)Does the link take you to a DB website page or is the image nested within the ebook?Can you zoom in/out? Thanks, again. Edited October 7, 2013 by cursor
canard78 Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 I've sent you a direct message with a few of the links (for copyright respect). If you don't get the message let me know and I'll post a link of one of the maps here. It is a link to the JPG in hi-res so yes, you can click on it and zoom right in. At some point I'd like to do a local stake fireside on a few of my favourite convergences. Having the digital images will be a nice way to show a couple of maps (if that's ok, no commercial use and wouldn't be sharing the images with people after the fireside). My mum (who I just gave the book to) has been a fan of your Dad's work for years. She organised regular Book of Mormon firesides throughout the 90s and would always be the one to quote the latest find/parallel or hebraism. 1
Sir Jamez Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 But, will they read it?Despite the fact that his work will [probably] not be recognized in the immediate future, he feels that the facts presented within this work simply cannot be scientifically ignored.Ive bought the book and pour over it for hours every night. There is no way the scholars that be can over look the factual almost evidence as coindidences. Impossible that a 14 year old farm kid would write this let alone the layers of puzzle pieces that fit so tightly together. I love studying the BOM using my codex book as a companion. Very thrilling! 4
cursor Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 Excellent. Thanks for the feedback, canard78. I see that I have a PM (from you, no doubt =).BTW, are you using Android, Apple, or other products to view your ebook version? Kind regards.Curtis
canard78 Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 Excellent. Thanks for the feedback, canard78. I see that I have a PM (from you, no doubt =).BTW, are you using Android, Apple, or other products to view your ebook version? Kind regards.Curtis I've not tried it yet. Only on my laptop. I'll try an apple device later and let you know.
canard78 Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 To ask a question about content (start of chapter 8 - not sure of page numbers): The idea that there was any ancient “civilization” in the Western Hemisphere was contrary to notions commonly held in Smith’s area in his day, and for that matter, it was contrary to the views of the entire Western world of the time. How about the work done by people like Mitchell (who Harris visited before Joseph's dictation started)?http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=20&num=2&id=609
nealr Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 Here are some screen grabs from their 'Bookshelf for Web' option: (edited for copyright reasons). I'll send you a link by PM... given it's your copyright After seeing this, I checked my Web Reader version and sure enough, there were the Maps! (Previously, they did not show up on my PC, so they must have fixed something.) If I had any complaint now, it's is that they still split the wider maps into two images. Given that it is digital, and therefore does not have the same restrictions as the printed page, I wish they would just make it one seamless image.
cursor Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 I'll contact Deseret Book and offer to supply them with a single large map to replace the two page spreads. All feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
erdoch Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 I hope this isn't the wrong place to ask the question, but does anyone here know anything about Brant Gardner's upcoming (2014) book "Traditions of the Fathers: The Book of Mormon as History"? (see http://gregkofford.com/collections/scripture/products/bofm-as-history). I'm wondering if Brant will spend any time responding to, or using, Mormon's Codex in this book, which I assume will be dealing with the Book of Mormon in its Mesoamerican context. The publication of Mormon's Codex has spurred in me an interest in studying the connections between the Book of Mormon and Mesoamerica. I finished reading "An Ancient American Setting" a couple weeks ago and am going to read next "The Ancient Maya" 6th Edition by Sharer and Traxler as background material so that I can better situate and evaluate the conclusions of Book of Mormon Mesoamericanisms in general, and John L. Sorensen's "Mormon Codex" in particular. (Mormon's Codex will be next on my reading list). Having read "An Ancient American Setting" I am impressed with not only the well reasoned fit of the Book of Mormon and Mesoamerica, but also with the tentativeness of many of Sorenson's conclusions. It reads as an intro, begging for much more exhaustive treatment. Unfortunately, as someone pointed out once, John L. Sorensen has not attracted as much of a following in Mormon scholarship on the New World as Hugh Nibley has with the Book of Mormon and the Old World. Hopefully Mormon's Codex and Brant Gardner's upcoming book will begin to change that... though I suspect that it will take another generation or two before the Book of Mormon in its Mesoamerican context becomes a significant subset of Mormon studies. 1
Brant Gardner Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) I hope this isn't the wrong place to ask the question, but does anyone here know anything about Brant Gardner's upcoming (2014) book "Traditions of the Fathers: The Book of Mormon as History"? (see http://gregkofford.com/collections/scripture/products/bofm-as-history). I'm wondering if Brant will spend any time responding to, or using, Mormon's Codex in this book, which I assume will be dealing with the Book of Mormon in its Mesoamerican context. I have heard a couple of things about it. Although it could be out in 2014, Kofford may wait until 2015 to be the year before we hit the Book of Mormon in Sunday School again. Since Mormon's Codex is currently available, Gardner wouldn't be as complete as he would like to be if he didn't interact at least somewhat with it. Edited October 10, 2013 by Brant Gardner 3
erdoch Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 I have heard a couple of things about it. Although it could be out in 2014, Kofford may wait until 2015 to be the year before we hit the Book of Mormon in Sunday School again. Since Mormon's Codex is currently available, Gardner wouldn't be as complete as he would like to be if he didn't interact at least somewhat with it. Glad to hear from the author himself! And I'd be happy to wait until 2015 to purchase your book if it includes some interaction with Mormon's Codex. Btw, I very much appreciated your book "The Gift and Power" - among other things, it helped me appreciate how KJV language and other anachronisms can be understood as part of the translation rather than as problems for the Book of Mormon's authenticity. Could you give us more of a sneak preview of your book? Is it partly based on your list of convergences posted elsewhere on this board - or something new/more altogether? 1
Brant Gardner Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 Could you give us more of a sneak preview of your book? Is it partly based on your list of convergences posted elsewhere on this board - or something new/more altogether?I think somewhere in its deep history that is where it began. It has become a very different book. What I have seen as a need is the ability to understand the text against history. It is organized chronologically rather than thematically, and works through how the text fits into and explained by the available history in particular locations and particular time periods. There are three major sections: history, "proofs" that LDS writers have used that should be discarded, and an examination of points that are often used to indicate a modern text. At least I think all of that will make it through final editing. That makes it thematically different from Mormon's Codex and also means that there are parts of Sorenson's book that don't even come up. For example, his section on transoceanic contacts does not have direct relevance to events in the Book of Mormon (other than to support the hypothesis that the Jaredite, Lehite and Mulekite voyages could have occurred). There won't be any reason for me to interact with that section. 4
Stargazer Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 JLS forwarded to me an email from Deseret Book indicating that Mormon's Codex is #9 on their list of current best sellers. Somebody had said, in the thread about Sheri Dew's video on Mormon women posted somewhere around here, that she had once, when President of DesBook, been asked when Mormons Codex was going to be published. She said "Never!" Do you know if that was because she thought the book would never be completed, or that she didn't want the book? Assuming she really did say "Never!"
cursor Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) It was I who referenced the story.Sheri Dew's response to the question was terse "no" ... not "never." I have no idea what she might have been thinking. Edited October 11, 2013 by cursor
cursor Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I'll contact Deseret Book and offer to supply them with a single large map to replace the two page spreads. All feedback is appreciated. Thanks. Deseret Book IS interested in replacing the two-page maps with single graphics. I'll prepare those today. I'm sure that next week when you access the ebook version, the changes will be in place. The dynamic nature of digital ebooks is pretty darn cool. Oh ... and Map 3 has symbol [C] ("No good land passage northward") in the wrong location. It should have been placed "north" of the narrow neck of land, near the shore of the west sea. While the in-print version can't be fixed until the next printing, the ebook version will be fixed right away. 2
morgan.deane Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I think somewhere in its deep history that is where it began. It has become a very different book. What I have seen as a need is the ability to understand the text against history. It is organized chronologically rather than thematically, and works through how the text fits into and explained by the available history in particular locations and particular time periods. There are three major sections: history, "proofs" that LDS writers have used that should be discarded, and an examination of points that are often used to indicate a modern text. At least I think all of that will make it through final editing. That makes it thematically different from Mormon's Codex and also means that there are parts of Sorenson's book that don't even come up. For example, his section on transoceanic contacts does not have direct relevance to events in the Book of Mormon (other than to support the hypothesis that the Jaredite, Lehite and Mulekite voyages could have occurred). There won't be any reason for me to interact with that section.Section two looks especially interesting. In the Mormon community there seems to be an echo chamber of proofs, many of which may be pretty weak. So it would be interesting to see why that is so from somebody who still accepts the BoM.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 To ask a question about content (start of chapter 8 - not sure of page numbers): How about the work done by people like Mitchell (who Harris visited before Joseph's dictation started)?http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=20&num=2&id=609Excellent article, canard. Thanks.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I think somewhere in its deep history that is where it began. It has become a very different book. What I have seen as a need is the ability to understand the text against history. It is organized chronologically rather than thematically, and works through how the text fits into and explained by the available history in particular locations and particular time periods. There are three major sections: history, "proofs" that LDS writers have used that should be discarded, and an examination of points that are often used to indicate a modern text. At least I think all of that will make it through final editing. That makes it thematically different from Mormon's Codex and also means that there are parts of Sorenson's book that don't even come up. For example, his section on transoceanic contacts does not have direct relevance to events in the Book of Mormon (other than to support the hypothesis that the Jaredite, Lehite and Mulekite voyages could have occurred). There won't be any reason for me to interact with that section.Brant,I notice that Sorenson says on p. xviii of Mormon's Codex that "I have consciously avoided duplicating valuable points made by Brant Gardner in his multivolume Second Witness series on the Book of Mormon in the Mesoamerican setting. His work deserves separate consultation." I know that you guys haven't choreographed this mutually respectful "dance," but it is nice to find Mormon scholars who actually read and understand each other. 2
canard78 Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Excellent article, canard. Thanks. Thanks. I wasn't trying to have a go at Sorenson, but it seemed like an over generalisation that no-one in Joseph's day had proposed the idea of great nations in the Americas. I'm not trying to say that proves Joseph as author, just challenging the statement Sorenson makes.
cursor Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) To ask a question about content (start of chapter 8 - not sure of page numbers): JLS wrote (page 144) in Mormon's Codex:"The idea that there was any ancient 'civilization' in the Western Hemisphere was contrary to notions commonly held in Smith’s area in his day, and for that matter, it was contrary to the views of the entire Western world of the time." How about the work done by people like Mitchell (who Harris visited before Joseph's dictation started)?http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=20&num=2&id=609 I've asked JLS via email. Edited October 12, 2013 by cursor
Tiki Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 JLS wrote (page 144) in Mormon's Codex:"The idea that there was any ancient 'civilization' in the Western Hemisphere was contrary to notions commonly held in Smith’s area in his day, and for that matter, it was contrary to the views of the entire Western world of the time."-----------------------This was the mentality of the Gentiles, as described or foretold in the Book of Mormon:"And also that a knowledge of these things must come unto the remnant of these people, and also unto the Gentiles, who the Lord hath said should scatter this people, and this people should be counted as naught among them—"It's too bad JLS had a similar attitude, but it's obvious he acquired it at University in his day, because it was the attitude early in American History required to take their lands and for the US to expand westward....it wouldnt do to claim the ancient North American ruins and mounds, belonged to a former sophisticated civilization - especially when the only evidence remaining would be:"this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry."(Mormon)This is why some sophisticated Maya Ruins appeared so attractive to those who wanted evidences for The Book of Mormon.
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