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So now I found out that several of the boys brought their phones and used them to look at porn during Scout Camp. Of course, they were told they couldn't bring them and the parents were told to make sure they collected them. Thankfully, my son wasn't exposed to it, but he did know they had their phones. We have some very ticked off parents and a bishop who is out of town and gets to deal with a fun mess when he gets home. One of the worst kids - his parents just don't want to hear that he is misbehaving. I'm really worried about him. :( Another boy stole someone's spending money while they were there and his parents found out and called them. I love them. They have tried really hard with this boy, but it's not getting through.

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I don't get to worked up about stuff that happens among boys. I know that there are some that want a world that exists only when wearing rose colored glasses, but it is not real. I dislike the cliché, "Boys will be boys", but there is some value here. Please understand that I am not excusing bad behavior, but I am suggesting that there is no need to get overly excited about it.

What is needed is some calm, firm counseling when a young man does something stupid. Mooning others is an example where a few questions would clarify the issue and make the young man think: Why did you do that? What were you thinking you would achieve by pulling down your pants and showing your backside to the world? etc. It is nothing to get excited about; it just happens. Heck, I know young adults that have mooned people.

Boys are learning about themselves and their sexuality. During the learning process they make poor decisions. I don't know why, but some boys really feel the need to expose themselves. Instead of getting excited, a good talk helps.

The objective of scouting is to help young men evolve into great young men that are willing to choose the right. Learning to do so is challenging and difficult and there will be a lot of poor decisions along the way.

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If it were just mooning, this wouldn't be a big deal to me, but it was a lot more than that. I have had friends and family moon people for giggles, but they don't drop their pants to their ankles to display everything and spread their cheeks. They don't grab anyone's genitals for a laugh either.

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I've heard statistics that LDS scouts are like 3 times more likely to be injured. I don't know how accurate that is, but it makes sense as LDS scout troops often have inexperienced leaders.

I would say you are wrong. LDS scout leaders are no more or no less qualified than any other organizations scout leaders.

Just for the record please post a source for your statistic.

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I have been an LDS Scout leader for almost 25 years. Most of my horror stories end up with happy endings because Scouts are Prepared!

I had one campout where the temperature dropped from 40 to -14 overnight (thats Fahrenheit not wimpy centigrade Duncan) and I found the boys all in one tent and wearing all their clothing by morning. On another we got a boy 18 miles up the Appalachian Trail on the top of Blood Mountain and he threw up all night long. But the boys rallied and carried him down the mountain.

When my oldest left for his mission I asked what his favorite memories were of growing up. "Scout camp with you Dad" was the response from the kids who broke two bones on two separate campouts.

I don't put up with bullying or sexual harassment and we do have a retired Police Officer as an ASM. But the other horseplay and the occasional injury (aka first aid practice) is part of the territory. I love this program and what it has done for me, my boys and the ward boys.

For those who have nerdy Scouts who are really into the program check into an Order of the Arrow election. Here in Atlanta Georgia the organization is very good and my boys have found kindred Scouts to hang with. A few are even LDS!

For the record I think for boys who interested there is no better program than Boy Scouts and I salute you on your service to scouting. On the other hand I have some very big issues with the business end of scouting and its leadership.

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So now I found out that several of the boys brought their phones and used them to look at porn during Scout Camp. Of course, they were told they couldn't bring them and the parents were told to make sure they collected them. Thankfully, my son wasn't exposed to it, but he did know they had their phones. We have some very ticked off parents and a bishop who is out of town and gets to deal with a fun mess when he gets home. One of the worst kids - his parents just don't want to hear that he is misbehaving. I'm really worried about him. :sad: Another boy stole someone's spending money while they were there and his parents found out and called them. I love them. They have tried really hard with this boy, but it's not getting through.

I understand about the not getting through part. These young men are entering puberty and are afflicted with raging hormones and other problems of that age group to the extent that it makes rational conversation nearly impossible.

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I don't get to worked up about stuff that happens among boys. I know that there are some that want a world that exists only when wearing rose colored glasses, but it is not real. I dislike the cliché, "Boys will be boys", but there is some value here. Please understand that I am not excusing bad behavior, but I am suggesting that there is no need to get overly excited about it.

What is needed is some calm, firm counseling when a young man does something stupid. Mooning others is an example where a few questions would clarify the issue and make the young man think: Why did you do that? What were you thinking you would achieve by pulling down your pants and showing your backside to the world? etc. It is nothing to get excited about; it just happens. Heck, I know young adults that have mooned people.

Boys are learning about themselves and their sexuality. During the learning process they make poor decisions. I don't know why, but some boys really feel the need to expose themselves. Instead of getting excited, a good talk helps.

The objective of scouting is to help young men evolve into great young men that are willing to choose the right. Learning to do so is challenging and difficult and there will be a lot of poor decisions along the way.

You are partially correct. There is a lot of horseplay that needs to be excused but when things get mean and one or two of the boys become the brunt of their behavior corrective action must be initiated.

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deleted at poster's request

Oh wow! I'm so sorry to hear they went through that!

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Generally, the worst horror stories in our ward have been just run-of-the-mill falling into water, minor burns and cuts, serious sunburns, that sort of thing.

About ten years ago, our bishop laid down the law that there would be no inappropriate behaviour or talk, period. They were Priesthood holders, dang it, and they had better act like it!

I wish more troups would do this. Really, the general Boy Scout leadership needs to get it into their heads that there is a lot more to being morally straight than just not being homosexual.

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Misbehaving boys is a great opportunity for preaching repentance. I'm most worried about a boy whose parents just don't want to admit their little darling can't be the one who was misbehaving. That is parenting issue I've seen in and out of Scouts and in and out of the LDS church.

Speaking of injuries my oldest tried out a rope swing at one campout and pile drived his body into the bank on the other side of the creek. The bone knitted eventually.

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Generally, the worst horror stories in our ward have been just run-of-the-mill falling into water, minor burns and cuts, serious sunburns, that sort of thing.

About ten years ago, our bishop laid down the law that there would be no inappropriate behaviour or talk, period. They were Priesthood holders, dang it, and they had better act like it!

I wish more troups would do this. Really, the general Boy Scout leadership needs to get it into their heads that there is a lot more to being morally straight than just not being homosexual.

Traela I can't let your backhand against Boy Scout Leadership pass. Boy Scout Leadership are well aware of the ramifications of the term "morally straight". The program is designed to allow church sponsored units the flexibility to teach moral precepts in the context of church values. In addition it contains moral teachings for those units not sponsored by churches. I assure you Boy Scout Leadership is not morally bankrupt as you seem to believe.

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I hated scout camp precisely because the kids that come are total ****s. I wished my parents had not made me go. I find also that nothing ever seems to happen to these badly behaved kids. I will be very vocal about this if it happens to my son. I will not stand for nor tolerate it. They get enough crap in middle school and scouts is supposed to be fun.

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I hated scout camp precisely because the kids that come are total ****s. I wished my parents had not made me go. I find also that nothing ever seems to happen to these badly behaved kids. I will be very vocal about this if it happens to my son. I will not stand for nor tolerate it. They get enough crap in middle school and scouts is supposed to be fun.

That is too bad. You were denied what could have been a good experience. Picking on boys or misbehaving to the point of distraction is one of the things that will make Brother G very unhappy. I am fortunate now to have a great group of young men who really do a good job of including all the boys. Some are not easy to include (behavioral issues that are not their fault like Asbergers, etc.) but they are included and treated with respect. I have to give credit to the boys. I am a very fortunate leader right now. Not all my troops have been as easy to work with.

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I hated scout camp precisely because the kids that come are total ****s. I wished my parents had not made me go. I find also that nothing ever seems to happen to these badly behaved kids. I will be very vocal about this if it happens to my son. I will not stand for nor tolerate it. They get enough crap in middle school and scouts is supposed to be fun.

I went to a 4-H camp once and never went back because of that but I don't remember any scouting activities like that.

My scout just went off for a 6 day fifty miler. I will be saying my prayers.

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I went to a 4-H camp once and never went back because of that but I don't remember any scouting activities like that.

My scout just went off for a 6 day fifty miler. I will be saying my prayers.

Keep the laundry room ready. You may want to hose him off outside before he comes in.

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We are in the process of removing a leader, mainly for behavior issues & problems with overstepping his authority. He is not a scoutmaster or assistant. Although he has been a great help, he is also a problem and several scouts complained about his actions two months ago. this guy has friends in the committee, especially someone who has been active for several years in scouting. It was a messy committee meeting because of the difference of opinion. Now we have two different camps - one that wants to exclude him (not his son) altogether or one that wants to keep him and see if he improves.

No matter what will happen, we lose scouts and we only have 23 kids in the troop. This is not going to end well and parents are looking more for a "goes or stays" situation, not a compromise.

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Well, that's frustrating. I hope everything will work out somehow!

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I would say you are wrong. LDS scout leaders are no more or no less qualified than any other organizations scout leaders.

Just for the record please post a source for your statistic.

Well, it was just something I heard from a scout leader, so maybe I shouldn't have posted about it. But it seems that other people have come to similar conclusions: http://nn.byu.edu/story.cfm/56016, http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=101845&p=7

And just to be clear, I'm glad that the church is involved with scouting and I'm proud to be a scout myself.

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“The number of scouts that get hurt is so miniscule,” Lawton said. “I don’t think they need any more rules, just more training.”

From the first link.

I think the problem, when it occurs, is from untrained leaders. The level of Scout leader training is required...at least up in Canada...by length of service, the longer one stays the more training is required up to a certain point. The Church pays for training (at least it did mine), but way back when I did it, my ward did not push for all leaders to take it. There was a lot of wasted time involved in the training due to the Church doing things differently so I was frustrated and bored and not particularly helped by it, I think there should be special training of LDS leaders instead of throwing them in with the general to save time and money and to address specific problems. That way they could cut the time for the training and get more of the short termers to actually take it.

It has been 15 years since I participated in Scouts so maybe things have changed...but that would be my recommendation.

My other concern...and it was a huge pet peeve...was when I complained about a safety violation (only one leader going out with 14 young men overnight in the winter up in the mountains at Banff in deep snow, not even sure they were alllowed by church rules due to age, it would have been right on the border), I was blown off by the bishop. Thankfully everyone was safe on that trip, it would have been so easy to go wrong then, no cell phone coverage and a very old van the leader (great guy, loved him as a person and a leader save for his lack of regard for the safety rules) took all the young men out in that so easily could have broken down.

I think anyone who has been found to disregard safety rules should be released as a scout leader immediately, feel free to keep in young men's but out of the scout side of it. Perhaps this would get the message across quickly....though it would also create an easy way out for someone who wanted to get released, lol.

Edited by calmoriah
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I loved Scouting as a boy and have served in virtually every position from Den Leader to District Commissioner and Council Webelos Camp Director.

We had great adventures including pack mules and horses through the Sangre de Cristo Mountains where I was bucked off a mule, a trip to Yellowstone where a friend dove into a pond and came up with his scalp split neatly down the middle and 30 stitches to fix it up - he was our hero, fishing in high New Mexico mountain lakes where another friend caught a treble hook cast in the cheek and yes we did have to push it through and cut the barb with pliers, attending a Mexican jamboree at Barranca del Cobre deepest canyon in the world where the Order of the Arrow sponsor tried to save a failed flaming arrow/potassium permanganate/glycerin magical camp fire lighting with a bit of Scout juice and ended up burning his hand and all the American Scouts spent most of the week sitting on slit trenches with Montezuma's revenge, my very best friend laying open the back of my hand in two places showing me how sharp his knife was at OA camp, rolling car-sized boulders off the cliff in Bandelier Box Canyon, taking only a wool army blanket to sleep in on my first campout, catching my pet tarantula in the Rio Grande gorge, and meeting the state governor at an Eagle Scout recognition banquet in the state capitol.

Those were the days, my friends!

But the greatest thing was Howard W. Adams, my scoutmaster. On one campout we all stripped down to swim in a lake and we noticed some large deep scars on both sides of his body and in both legs just above the knees. He had been shot four times and left for dead on the battlefield in WW2 and was captured by the German army. His wounds were left as they were but he was eventually released when the ward ended. We did not know this until we saw the wounds and asked him about them. In all the time I knew him, he was unfailingly of good humor, optimism, kindness, and deeply spiritual. Other than my father I don't know if there has been another man that has had such influence on my life. Would to God that every boy could have a Scoutmaster like Howard Adams.

Unfortunately, I don't believe any of my sons got from Scouting what I did. The times they seem to be a changing.

Bernard

Edited by Bernard Gui
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I loved scouting as a boy. Living in Alaska we had great experiences year round. Making our own dog sleds, camping out in 50 degrees below, phenomenal summer camping at Bear Lake. Fishing for greyling, salmon, char and smoking the salmon was the best. Our scout leader knew what young men enjoyed and what would build character. Unfortunately, we moved away from Alaska to Florida to a rather lackadaisical approach to scouting. I did go on a 50 mile hike while there, but I arrived as a Life scout and ended as a Life scout.

My son got his Eagle and had an incredible scout master. He was committed to scouting and committed to leading each young man in such as way that they also achieved their Eagle. They had to work for it, but if they were willing, he had the program organized in such a way that they could earn it.

I am grateful that I lived in a time when I did not need to wear a helmet while riding my bike, could stay out at night without fear, left our home unlocked, taught boys to shoot shotguns and rifles and could trust them to handle them properly, learning archery was just a natural part of being a boy, and learning to care for wild game that was killed was expected (i.e. you kill it you eat it). Personally, I tire of all the rules, demands, etc. Can you get hurt in life? You betcha. Can you prevent pain? Not on your life. Should you expect to prevent pain or accidents? If you do you will be sadly disappointed in life. Can boys be stupid or careless? Yes and it should be expected, but we teach where there are no allowances for stupidity because of the potential cost. However, I would much rather have a boy be stupid now and then rather than a boy that cannot get off the computer, out of the house, and understand and appreciate what it means to run, be physical, throw a ball and catch it. God forbid that we lose respect for boys that seek for adventure and look for the path less taken. May scouting always be there for those that want to learn about the outdoors and life.

Oh, I if I ever do ride a bike again, it will not be with a helmet, knee pads, back brace, gloves, etc. :tribal:

Edited by Storm Rider
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I think one of the problems with having too many rules is that the ones that should get paid attention to are trivialized by the presence of so many others. We should have the definite rules which are in place to prevent injury to others and then guidelines of varying importance for people to decide for themselves on how much care they want to take care of themselves. Clear stats with graphic pictures should be provided. The only requirement should be that insurance should be able to cover to a lower extent those who don't follow the most basic of guidelines for self protection, others should not be forced to pay for one's own lower level of caution.

Having known too many brain damaged individuals who were not wearing helmets...especially painful for those who remembered what they once were and could never be again, I think that is one thing that should be a rule, not a guideline. one can get by with the loss of an eye, limb, even broken back these days...damage the brain...not much hope for repair there yet though they are working on it and there is much more hope than there used to be.

Edited by calmoriah
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