juliann Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 I want a copy of Greg Smith's "hit piece."MI could arrange the greatest fund raiser ever..... 2
William Schryver Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 I want a copy of Greg Smith's "hit piece."What are you willing to pay?Or trade, perhaps?You know what they say: every man has his price.
Hestia Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Yes ...he is motivated by his personal pride and his desire of self-aggrandizement and the attention his podcasts generate.A little over the top even for sarcasm. Tone it down.
Calm Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) It a critic implied that an apologist was motivated by attention or money, what would your response be?It would depend on how much he was paid for his time. For example, FAIR apologists don't get paid at all and most of us actually pay for the privilege of answering questions from those who seek us out....and would be glad to pay more if asked. I think some conclusions can be drawn from that choice. Of course that doesn't mean we don't all do it for the fame!I would in fact what to know if anyone was acting as an apologist for anything beyond basic expenses for extraordinary efforts being covered. I believe such things contribute to knowing the level of not only commitment (if a person refuses to do anything unless they are reimbursed for it makes a difference such as Helen Radkey, don't you think?), but also the level of potential influence that exists out there on what they have to say (and yes, I take into account that fact when it is a BYU professor or a Church employee steps into the apologetics ring.) Edited June 29, 2012 by calmoriah
CASteinman Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Or there might not. My not Mormon mother-in-law (whom I never met) never spoke to my husband again because he refused to stop talking to his father after a divorce. Another in-law has a temple going father who divorced the mother and broke off contact with the kids. This stuff happens. Sometimes you just have to accept what fate has handed you and detach from those who are trying to cause harm.Well, yes. But on the other hand, if I were a Stake President and got a call from some irate family member, I would not jump to accept what they said over the phone. My point being -- something else is probably going on. We have half or less of a story. Meanwhile humility and introspection can't totally hurt -- not even the innocent, if there are such people.
CASteinman Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we label people who are questioning as pride filled sinners (and I'm not talking about committed career apostates). I must have lived a charmed life ... at least in that regard. I have never met anyone who produced such a label. At least not to my face.
Somebodyz Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 I don't think that john is much help. But what does help is to come to this board with an open heart and soul and have a conversation with the faithful board members in the social hall or here. But in this section the person may be misunderstood and posters may be a little frisky with the questioner until it becomes known that the person is truly seeking answers. But in the social hall people are more socially polite and docile. It doesn't help either when you see a poster calling members of this board foul names, and refering to us as if we are all of one mind. It tends to make we wary of the poster.
CASteinman Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 it is a lonely path to walk when you don't feel like you can discuss your doubts and concerns with family members and church members and leadership, because of the percieved notion that those who doubt have "sinned" and/or could be wolves in sheep clothing.I am sorry that you feel lonely. But does it help you to know that it is likely everyone here has stepped out of the Garden of Eden and faced the Lone and Dreary World as well?
CASteinman Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 But his relatives jumped on the sin aspect of it. We all sin but this is not his problem with his feelings toward the lds church. The problem is elsewhere. But his relatives don't get it.He tells us that his relatives jumped on it. Maybe they did. We don't know. We have less than half a story. I don't feel inclined to think badly of anyone in this. 1
Nevo Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) What are you willing to pay?Or trade, perhaps?You know what they say: every man has his price.Do you sell your pre-publication copy for money? You have it I presume. Edited June 29, 2012 by Nevo
CASteinman Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 I know I am "black balled" over here. You are taking a risk just having a conversation with me.I have not observed you being blackballed and have not seen you say or do anything that would merit it. But I am a nobody here ... so my views are almost irrelevant. But thought I would share my perceptions anyway.
why me Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Why Me you are so nice to say that I'd be a good teacher. That makes me feel like I need to be on my best behavior now. How in tune with the spirit is that, why me? A few days ago I thought I wouldn't last long on a board like this, but alot of love was shown and I'm hooked to the board and don't get anything done now. But it's therapy for me to converse with active members, (btw, I'm still active but haven't been in the last few weeks), and not feel too judged, thanks for that! Believe it or not, I am not active and haven't been for years. No one has judged me harshly at all on this board. In fact, I have been accepted here since I began posting. But I have been judged harshly on ex-mormon boards because of my inactivity and my defense of the lds church. So, you are in a good place. But just remember that we are not perfect here and some may respond aggressively at times. 2
John Ping Pong Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 And it is also that your boredom comes from your own attitude.Perhaps it is time to resume my seven-percent solution.
John Ping Pong Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 There was a lesson on it in this year's GD class. I don't think any other reasons for leaving the church are even addressed. Well, except pride. That is usually the biggest one, actually. Sort of a chicken or egg thing interaction going on.Another reason I sometimes hear is that so-and-so who left the Church simply never had a testimony to begin with.
John Ping Pong Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 it is a lonely path to walk when you don't feel like you can discuss your doubts and concerns with family members and church members and leadership, because of the percieved notion that those who doubt have "sinned" and/or could be wolves in sheep clothing.I for one do not think you are a wolf in any kind of clothing, nor that you have sinned.I hope you will feel welcome to discuss your doubts and concerns with me, if you are of a mind.
John Ping Pong Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 I think our church does so many things so masterfully (which is why people have such a hard time leaving). But I think this is one area in which we need some reform and I think the leadership is making headway. We had a member leave and turn into an active anti-Mormon. The last time I sat through the sin and pride lesson, I couldn't help but wonder how many times he listened to that before he bolted.I agree with you completely, and wholeheartedly endorse your belief that there are areas in which the Church could improve.I think some of this comes down to how threatening it can be for us when members leave the Church. It is the flip side of the same coin regarding how faith-confirming it can be when somebody joins the Church.Because it is threatening, it is natural to want to ascribe some reason for it--some reason that could not possibly happen to us and result in our leaving the Church. It is also tempting to want to ascribe the departure to a moral failing, so that we who remain are in a superior position and are better able to sit in judgment on the not-so-dearly departed.
Nevo Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Another reason I sometimes hear is that so-and-so who left the Church simply never had a testimony to begin with.I have heard this reason too. But in my case, I heard it from the "so-and-so" who actually left the Church.
John Ping Pong Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Lots of people try to understand the issues of those who doubt. Despite this, those who doubt sometimes don't feel understood. I don't know what to say about that. It does not seem to be the fault of those who try -- at least to me.I think those who doubt don't necessarily feel the need to be understood as much as accepted. 1
Calm Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 A few days ago I thought I wouldn't last long on a board like this, but alot of love was shown and I'm hooked to the board and don't get anything done now. Bwhaa haa haaa. Our evil plan is succeeding, today Tacenda, tomorrow the world!
John Ping Pong Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Actually, you can. I gave a talk and included that I what I actually "KNOW" is very limited. Another excellent point.What is the Spirit most likely to bear witness to?A. A testimony that somebody knows Joseph Smith was a prophet when they don't?B. A testimony that somebody hopes Joseph Smith was a prophet when they do?
Tacenda Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Believe it or not, I am not active and haven't been for years. No one has judged me harshly at all on this board. In fact, I have been accepted here since I began posting. But I have been judged harshly on ex-mormon boards because of my inactivity and my defense of the lds church. So, you are in a good place. But just remember that we are not perfect here and some may respond aggressively at times.Well maybe that's why you still have a testimony, lol.
John Ping Pong Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 I have heard this reason too. But in my case, I heard it from the "so-and-so" who actually left the Church.LOL!This always reminds me of somebody getting divorced who says in justification that they never loved their spouse to begin with. 1
Hamilton Porter Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Oh, grow up, boy from Sand Lot, go back and get the ball behind the fence, that dog is harmless!! Just kidding ya, you make me laugh sometimes with your posts!Thank you! Even though you play ball like a girl.MI could arrange the greatest fund raiser ever.....That is an excellent idea, we need funds for our new apologetics organization.What are you willing to pay?Or trade, perhaps?You know what they say: every man has his price.I'll start with $25.
why me Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Well maybe that's why you still have a testimony, lol.The point is that we have all types of members here on this forum. And they defend the lds church or they criticize it. And some have left the church. There are many good people who are not active and yet, good people. I also consider the witnesses to be good people although some were inactive, some left the church too. But one thing about all of them is: they never denied what they saw or what they saw and felt. And david still had a testimony of the book of mormon because he requested it be put on his tombstone. 1
why me Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Well maybe that's why you still have a testimony, lol.What is interesting is that I have never had any problems on mormon boards. But I have had problems on exmember boards. They couldn't deal with me defending the church and being inactive. The judgements were harsh. But I also knew that perhaps these members were very judgmental when they were members too. I am sure that they would have consigned me to the terrestial kingdom, if not the telestial in their judgments. But who know, maybe I am now judging them.
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