Independence Mo. Temple?

[Scott Lloyd]

Because just the portion I see seems to indicate that "this generation" was refering to the generation we returned to Independence as a body.

By "return to Independence as a body" do you mean the future day when the New Jerusalem will be built, as per the 10th Article of Faith, or do you have in mind the membership of the Church moving en masse to Jackson County?

I ask, because the former is authentic doctrine, while the latter is merely folk doctrine. See this article.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[mnn727]

I think it's beautiful.

If you like Ice Cream Cones its beautiful

[David T]

If you like Ice Cream Cones its beautiful

And who doesn't like Ice Cream Cones

But I think more of the Nautilus shell:

[Vance]

By "return to Independence as a body" do you mean the future day when the New Jerusalem will be built, as per the 10th Article of Faith, or do you have in mind the membership of the Church moving en masse to Jackson County?

I ask, because the former is authentic doctrine, while the latter is merely folk doctrine. See this article.

Oh, pleeze!!!!

Don't you know that EVERYTHING an LDS "prophet" says over the pulpit is "prophecy"?

An anti-Mormon told me so.

/s

[Avatar4321]

The Community of Christ has built, what they refer to as, a "Temple". Those of us in traditional RLDS Branches do not believe it is the Temple of the LORD to be built in New Jerusalem, but may, in fact, be a sign that portends calamaties coming upon this nation. The following poem was received by Violet Jones in 1933...

"Granite needle to the sky, Earthquake, many people die.

Solid structures break like glass, Prophecies have come to pass.

End approaching, few take heed, Love of money, lust and greed.

War clouds threaten poison gas, Prophesies have come to pass.

Chaos, ruin in all lands, Solid structures? Shifting sands.

People suffering all en-masse, Prophecies have come to pass.

Invasion-wings of steel overhead, Panic, devastation spread.

Sky is darkened--Sun overcast, Prophecies will come to pass.

Dismal picture, but take heart, Not completed--just a part.

Redemption is approaching fast, Prophecies MUST come to pass."

Considering the Temple is supposed to be a 24 building Temple, i highly doubt it is the one that will ultimately be built.

[Avatar4321]

By "return to Independence as a body" do you mean the future day when the New Jerusalem will be built, as per the 10th Article of Faith, or do you have in mind the membership of the Church moving en masse to Jackson County?

I ask, because the former is authentic doctrine, while the latter is merely folk doctrine. See this article.

Good question. Im just going off the portion of Brigham's quote provided, so whatever he meant. That is one of the reasons id love to see it in context.

[Scott Lloyd]

Good question. Im just going off the portion of Brigham's quote provided, so whatever he meant. That is one of the reasons id love to see it in context.

Context is always good. In fact, I'd call it absolutely essential.

One thing to bear in mind is that some folks in the early days of the Church earnestly believed the Second Coming would occur within their lifetimes. In that event, I suppose it might have made sense for the entire Church to gather as a body in Jackson County. Not so much today. And since walking was a common means of overland travel for at least part of the 19th century, I suppose it would be reasonable to think that the Saints would use that mode when they returned to Missouri.

My personal opinion is that this rather persistent folk doctrine stems from the erroneous supposition that the Second Coming was less than a lifetime away.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Considering the Temple is supposed to be a 24 building Temple, i highly doubt it is the one that will ultimately be built.

I agree that it is not the New Jerusalem Temple of prophecy- I don't think I said any different.

[Avatar4321]

IMHO, design wise, it beats the pants off of this thing:

I dont know. Ive always found it to be one of the most beautiful

[selek1]

IMHO, design wise, it beats the pants off of this thing:

It has always been my understanding that LDS (and non-LDS Christian) ethos has always held that beauty lies more in function than in form.

That being the case, this is no more a Temple than this .

However beautiful (in a subjective and worldly sense) either place may be- and however much their adherents may esteem the product of their hands- they cannot hold a candle to the beauty and majesty inherent in what goes on here.

[Lightbearer]

Is it true that a Temple was built in Independence Mo. (by the RLDS) in 1994?

And did Brigham Young really say "...when we get into Jackson county to walk in the courts of that house, we can say we built this temple: for as the Lord lives we will build up Jackson county in this generation"?

My source says this is from a conference on April 6, 1845.

Is that true (and would that be what the church now calls a general conference)?

By the same token was Jesus Himself mistaken when He said this:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

(New Testament | Matthew 24:30 - 34)

The point is what is meant by "this generation"?

[bcuzbcuz]

I think it's beautiful.

The roof line is the form you got (past tense for those that get my imagery) when you took a roll of undeveloped, 35 mm, film from its canister, holding by the innermost curve of the roll.

[David T]

By the same token was Jesus Himself mistaken when He said this:

The point is what is meant by "this generation"?

At the very least, the Gospel writer who recorded that was. And both were pretty sure at the time (as well as those who heard those messages) that the current generation then living were going to experience those things. Expectations were readjusted, and reinterpreted.

Reading the Pauline Epistles strongly illustrated the period of adjusted and reinterpreted understanding in the primitive Church.

Edited June 7, 2012 by David T

[BookofMormonLuvr]

By the same token was Jesus Himself mistaken when He said this:

The point is what is meant by "this generation"?

How does the Inspired Version (Joseph Smith Translation) render the verses of Matt. 24 (KJV)? Just asking.

[mapman]

How does the Inspired Version (Joseph Smith Translation) render the verses of Matt. 24 (KJV)? Just asking.

Matthew 24:34

KJV

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

NT1

verily I say unto you this generation in the which these things shall be shewn forth shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled

NT2

Verily I say unto you, this generation [shall]<in> thee which these things shall be shewn forth, shall not pass away till all these <I have told you shall> be fulfilled[,]<.>

Edited June 7, 2012 by mapman

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Matthew 24:34

KJV

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

NT1

verily I say unto you this generation in the which these things shall be shewn forth shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled

NT2

Verily I say unto you, this generation [shall]<in> thee which these things shall be shewn forth, shall not pass away till all these <I have told you shall> be fulfilled[,]<.>

Interesting change. Thank you.

[Anti-NOMunistJackMormon]

I don't think is it constructive or necessary to make fun or mock the CoC's temple. It also seems disrespectfull which has been said many times at conference to not do by our own GAs.

OT my understanding is that it operates much in the same way that the Kirtland temple did. The Kirtland temple also invited other faiths to speak and participate at times in the early days of the church. temple worship changed significantly after the Nauvoo temple and endowment. The Kirtland temple acted more akin to a fancier stake center if we were to make a comparison to a modern LDS building.

[theplains]

I ask, because the former is authentic doctrine, while the latter is merely folk doctrine. See this article.

I would disagree with something said in the April 1979 Ensign article "Missouri Myths"

"One thing we do know—there is no call to gather to Missouri. And above all, I know that the living prophet’s vision is both

perfect and sufficient for our day"

It is a fairly old article so I can understand that there was no "call" or "thought" to gather at that time, but things have

changed since "Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual" came along.

"His first appearance will be to the righteous Saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem. In this place of refuge they

will be safe from the wrath of the Lord, which will be poured out without measure on all nations" (chapter 36).

An earlier bullet point also says, "Before the Lord Jesus descends openly and publicly in the clouds of glory, attended by

all the hosts of heaven; before the great and dreadful day of the Lord sends terror and destruction from one end of the

earth to the other; before he stands on Mount Zion, or sets his feet on Olivet, or utters his voice from an American Zion

or a Jewish Jerusalem; before all flesh shall see him together; before any of his appearances, which taken together

comprise the second coming of the Son of God—before all these, there is to be a secret appearance to selected members

of his Church. He will come in private to his prophet and to the apostles then living. Those who have held keys and powers

and authorities in all ages from Adam to the present will also be present”.

Apparently the President and the other 14 living Apostles will have gathered to the new temple in Jackson County too.

Regards,

Jim

[Damien the Leper]

I don't think is it constructive or necessary to make fun or mock the CoC's temple. It also seems disrespectfull which has been said many times at conference to not do by our own GAs.

OT my understanding is that it operates much in the same way that the Kirtland temple did. The Kirtland temple also invited other faiths to speak and participate at times in the early days of the church. temple worship changed significantly after the Nauvoo temple and endowment. The Kirtland temple acted more akin to a fancier stake center if we were to make a comparison to a modern LDS building.

I agree. The Independence Temple is more of a place for education than ordinances. It may not perform the same functions as the LDS but it is still used for Divine purposes.

[Calm]

things have

changed since "Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual" came along.

What things do you have in mind that both have changed and would have an effect on the timing of this prophecy and others.

[Kenngo1969]

IMHO, design wise, it beats the pants off of this thing:

You think there are pants on that thing? (I'm not seein' 'em, myself; maybe you could point them out to me? ) No wonder you like the design of the Community of Christ's temple better!

[Kenngo1969]

I dont know. Ive always found it to be one of the most beautiful

Even with its pants on?

[theplains]

What things do you have in mind that both have changed and would have an effect on the timing of this prophecy and others.

Would you rephrase your question? I am not sure what you are asking.

Thanks,

Jim

[Calm]

Don't worry about it. Not a good time for me to get involved in an extended discussion.

[Avatar4321]

Even with its pants on?

I apprecite modesty:)