Deborah Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 As I was sitting in Sacrament meeting my thoughts went to the pre-mortal council. It just occurred to me I never considered when the creation of all the worlds took place and the thought came that The Plan had to be presented first and Christ had to accept his calling. It was after that he began the creation of the worlds that would house the spirits that would come to them. After all if he was going to make a sacrifice of such significance it would seem logical that the Plan would already have been set in motion and officers called to assist in it. I wonder if that is one reason Satan was so eager to step forward. Not to become the Savior but to be creator of worlds without number and have all that glory to himself. Christ on the other hand carried out the plan of creation but gave everything back to the Father. Anyway just some random thoughts. Has anyone else ever thought of this? I seriously never even thought about the timeline, if such there can be in eternity.
BlueDreams Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 I don't know about worlds. I figure the plan was set before this world because that's what it sounds like in Abr 3:24....but I don't think the earth was the first world... so I have no idea. Never fully thought it out. And who knows if it even had a strong timeline, since time is as God wants it to be.With luv,BD
blackstrap Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 It is interesting to think about how much we as spirits knew about what could or would happen to us here on this earth. I have only considered the scriptures about the grand council to apply just to those of us for whom THIS earth was created. If we were aware of the many worlds that had been created before,and the trials that went with them,it makes a bit more sense as to why a third chose to avoid the uncertain way.
Lightbearer Posted June 4, 2012 Posted June 4, 2012 Some very deep thoughts, and I remember the first time I read about the many worlds in the Pearl of Great Price, I was a youth at the time and I was also an amateur astronomer so the subject facinated me. I wondered at a young age how big the universe really was, where was the "outer boundary" and I came to the conclusion that there was none, there was no boundary. That there was no beginning and therefore will be no end. It is rather mindboggling but the scripture in Moses gives us some clues: "And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them? And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me. And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth. And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten. And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many. But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content. And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come, and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. And now, Moses, my son, I will speak unto thee concerning this earth upon which thou standest; and thou shalt write the things which I shall speak." (Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:30 - 40) I am wondering if the reason God did not tell Moses about the other earths is that He knew that Moses (nor us) could not understand or comprehend it in our mortal state. I think also the reason why stars are so far apart is so that we could not possibly reach other inhabited worlds while in our corrupt mortal state, so we would not attempt to disrupt or destroy other planets. Or perhaps the reason why God did not tell us about these other worlds is simpler than that, maybe we are on a need to know basis and it would not do us any good to know details of other worlds for which we have no concern of ours as indicated here:"In answer to the question—Is not the reckoning of God's time, angel's time, prophet's time, and man's time, according to the planet on which they reside? I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it." (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:4 - 5) From this I gather that our spirits are given assignments to specific planets and maybe that is another reason why we do not need to know details about the plans operative on other worlds. But I suspect they are very similar to this earth's plan of salvation. These principles of time and space and existence are hard for our finite mortal perception to comprehend and I think the closer we are to the spirit the easier it is for the veil to be lifted so we can see and understand if it will bring about the Lord's purposes.
Log Posted June 4, 2012 Posted June 4, 2012 I wonder - were we just lucky to get to live on the world the Redeemer came to?
BCSpace Posted June 4, 2012 Posted June 4, 2012 I wonder - were we just lucky to get to live on the world the Redeemer came to?I have heard the notion (which I don't necessarily agree with) that we were the only world who would kill him. If true, perhaps not so lucky.
blooit Posted June 4, 2012 Posted June 4, 2012 When God weeps in the Book of Moses, because"...I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren..." (Moses 7:36)As there must be opposition in all things, it makes sense to me that this is the pivotal earth where the atonement takes place... where the savior and Satan have it out, and the greatest goodness and greatest wickedness take place.Man, there is so much we don't or can't comprehend. It will be so interesting to have it all straightened out someday.
Deborah Posted June 4, 2012 Author Posted June 4, 2012 The Atonement is for all mankind. All mankind would seem to include all the worlds and in fact hasn't this been taught that Christ's Atonement applies to all his creations. That is interesting because if there are worlds older than this one then the Atonement is retroactive and it makes me wonder about how time is seen. In fact we read in D&C 130:7 regarding the angels "But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord." It boggles the mind.
Deborah Posted June 4, 2012 Author Posted June 4, 2012 Sidebar: Lightbearer how did you get the quote function and bold to work. Mine is not working and I don't know if I clicked a setting or not but they are inaccessible.
Nofear Posted June 4, 2012 Posted June 4, 2012 I wonder if that is one reason Satan was so eager to step forward. Not to become the Savior but to be creator of worlds without number and have all that glory to himself. Christ on the other hand carried out the plan of creation but gave everything back to the Father.It is well known that our physical body can exert tremendous influence on our actions here in mortality -- such that under certain abnormal situations individuals aren't judged "accountable" for their actions. I believe that the Plan of Salvation has been enacted and followed through numerous times that this is not the first and certainly won't be the last earth to follow through with the plan.I personally suspect the Adversary's plan/argument rested on the idea that in previous iterations of the Plan of Happiness there were numerous individuals who didn't do well. So, I suspect, he proposed that by careful manipulation of our biology we would come to mortality and choose the "good" by virtue of our new biology -- a Plan of Happiness v2.0 as it were. And he wanted credit for it. But, it wouldn't work and Heavenly Father and most of his children correctly opted for the tried and true plan.As I was sitting in Sacrament meeting my thoughts went to the pre-mortal council. It just occurred to me I never considered when the creation of all the worlds took place and the thought came that The Plan had to be presented first and Christ had to accept his calling. It was after that he began the creation of the worlds that would house the spirits that would come to them. After all if he was going to make a sacrifice of such significance it would seem logical that the Plan would already have been set in motion and officers called to assist in it.I sometimes wonder about timing. This earth is some 4.5 billion years old and yet the Sons of Adam have only walked for a measly few thousand years. Given the efficiency and parsimony of God, I can't help suspect but that this earth was being used for other designs for a good chunk of that 4.5 billion years. Of specifics, I cannot begin to say.
DBMormon Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I wonder - were we just lucky to get to live on the world the Redeemer came to?Log - my opinion only but I think this is another doctrine theory hatched that is false. I believe the sons of God are only on earth and earth is the only place Christ atoned for. Also we do hear in the temple and in scripture worlds withou number. I believe there is other life but that God's children are different from them. Makes me get the weeby jeebies, and think about all these Alien lifeforms tricking us into beliving God meanwhile they keep taking the Kentuckians and West virginians and pobing them.... knowing no one will belive them
David T Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 This poem was just posted on BCC that I think gives a fantastic and dynamic illustration of this question!
volgadon Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 This poem was just posted on BCC that I think gives a fantastic and dynamic illustration of this question!http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/57946-mormon-poetry/
mfbukowski Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Makes me get the weeby jeebies, and think about all these Alien lifeforms tricking us into beliving God meanwhile they keep taking the Kentuckians and West virginians and pobing them.... knowing no one will belive themOur alien invasions always make the aliens dumb, because we want to come out on top. Like War of the Worlds- does anyone actually believe that an advanced race would not know about germs?? Or this flick Avengers - these guys come from galaxies far away only to have their spaceships wrecked by The Hulk? Give me a break! Oh well, but they are a lot of fun.But what would REAL aliens who are smarter than us do? I think you nailed it! Please now, everyone adjust your tinfoil hats so they cannot read our thoughts.
mfbukowski Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I wonder - were we just lucky to get to live on the world the Redeemer came to?No, we were all predestined and fore-ordained because we are so great!
Aliwe Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 I believe the sons of God are only on earth and earth is the only place Christ atoned for.In 2 Nephi Jacob said "Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement -- save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption" and you now limit the atonement to a single planet.
altersteve Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 I believe the sons of God are only on earth and earth is the only place Christ atoned for.I disagree. Please see D&C 76:23–24.
Deborah Posted June 24, 2012 Author Posted June 24, 2012 Man, there is so much we don't or can't comprehend. It will be so interesting to have it all straightened out someday. I think that our finite minds can only grasp so much and so what we will see will likely blow them if we weren't able to witness these things on a higher plane. Joseph Smith often said that there was so much more he could teach the people but because of their traditions they would reject him if he did.
Deborah Posted June 24, 2012 Author Posted June 24, 2012 I believe the sons of God are only on earth and earth is the only place Christ atoned for. That is contradicted by many statements of GA's through the years. Plus to use the words of the hymn "Truth is reason, truth eternal, tells me" that the Atonement is far greater than our puny little minds can comprehend and that if Christ created world's without number then his sacrifice would reach to them as well. Even assuming that those on different worlds were little green men I would assume they would have need of a Mediator as well.
thesometimesaint Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away...
Bikeemikey Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 God the father is the creator of all things?Is it possible that Jesus Christ is simply the creator of our world with others creating other worlds?Does it matter to us if there is a Christ for every world? That doesn't make our Christ less important, does it?
Aliwe Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Is it possible that Jesus Christ is simply the creator of our world with others creating other worlds?John Boanerges said, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." Accepting that at face value, one must conclude that Jesus made Venus and Jupiter and 51 Pegasi IV too.
Lachoneus Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 John Boanerges said, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." Accepting that at face value, one must conclude that Jesus made Venus and Jupiter and 51 Pegasi IV too.So, are you saying that Christ created The Father (and himself)? Or should we not take the phrase "all things" quit so literally?
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