Mormons And Easter

[bluebell]

bluebell: if you choose to respond to my post by restating what I said using words and meaning that I did not include in my post, isn't that the very definition of "straw man"? And calmoriah: you agreed with her false restatement of my words, so I assume you're OK with it.

I chose to respond to your post by replying to what you legitimately seemed to be saying. You can call it 'misunderstanding' if you want to, but it's not a straw man.

There is nothing in my post (see above) which suggests that there is any sin against the Sacrment if we celebrate Easter.

That's good, because i never claimed that you claimed that (yeesh, talk about 'responding by restating what i said to create a stawman').

I read your post as saying that if we didn't take the sacrament so lightly (which would seem to be a sin), then we wouldn't need to celebrate Easter.

Is that a 'strawman', or was it actually what you were saying? (Because, even after your elaborate explanation, it still seems like that's exactly what you were saying and i still don't get it. To me, that's like saying that if we took people's lives seriously enough and appreciated them enough every day, we wouldn't need to celebrate birthdays).

Edited April 7, 2012 by bluebell

[Daniel Peterson]

Today's Hamblin/Peterson column in the Deseret News about the celebration of Easter in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem:

http://dcpsicetnon.blogspot.com/2012/04/holy-fire-in-jerusalem.html

[Tepui]

Uh, there's an Easter Pageant at the Mesa Arizona Temple. http://www.easterpageant.org/ The performances ended today.

Been going on since at least the 1970's.

[Stargazer]

I was responding to Bluebell's comment, not to her comment about your comment....

No problem.

[Stargazer]

I chose to respond to your post by replying to what you legitimately seemed to be saying. You can call it 'misunderstanding' if you want to, but it's not a straw man.

That's good, because i never claimed that you claimed that (yeesh, talk about 'responding by restating what i said to create a stawman').

I read your post as saying that if we didn't take the sacrament so lightly (which would seem to be a sin), then we wouldn't need to celebrate Easter.

Is that a 'strawman', or was it actually what you were saying? (Because, even after your elaborate explanation, it still seems like that's exactly what you were saying and i still don't get it. To me, that's like saying that if we took people's lives seriously enough and appreciated them enough every day, we wouldn't need to celebrate birthdays).

You said that I said it was sinning to take the Sacrament lightly. My response is that I didn't say that.

To say that I said it was sinning to take the Sacrament lightly, and then argue against that, is to argue with what I didn't say. Which is a straw man. Or so it seems, to me at least. We needn't extend this any further.

I wouldn't mind celebrating Easter. But what does "celebrating it" entail? Jewish High Holy Days are prescribed by the Law of Moses, and what happens when they are celebrated is likewise prescribed. To celebrate Passover, a Seder is performed. It is all very prescriptive. Certain foods are laid out and consumed in a ritualistic fashion, certain things are said and responses are spoken, again in a ritualistc way. The Feast of the Tabernacles involves the construction of booths, and this construction is intended to mean something, and all of it is prescribed and it has specific rituals.

Easter, on the other hand, has no such prescriptions. There are easter eggs, easter bunnies, easter sunrise services, and so on, but none of these are prescribed by any scripture. They are nothing more than traditional, and some have argued that these things have nothing to do with Christ, but are in fact derived from pagan rituals and beliefs, and were brought into Christian practice simply to help the pagans overcome their own pagan traditions, by co-opting them into Christian practice. The English word "Easter" itself derives from the name of the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre.

None of this matters to me as to whether or not it is appropriate to "celebrate" Easter -- all I have been trying to say is that there is no prescriptive in original Christian faith to celebrate this holiday, and there is no prescriptive ritual either.

And I keep saying that the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper is the only prescriptive "item" in connection with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and it would be a good idea to take it more seriously than many LDS seem to take it.

Celebrate Easter if you want. I have no problem with it.

[cinepro]

It's called the Sacrament, and if the words of the modern prophets can be relied upon, the Sacrament is hands-down the most sacred ordinance in the Church.

CFR that the Sacrament is more sacred the the Temple ordinances.

[Stargazer]

CFR that the Sacrament is more sacred the the Temple ordinances.

The ordinance of the sacrament makes the sacrament meeting the most sacred and important meeting in the Church. -- Dallin Oaks

Joseph Fielding Smith is quoted in Doctrines of Salvation as having referred to the Sacrament Meeting, due to the administration of the Sacrament as “...the most sacred, the most holy, of all the meetings of the Church”. See this talk by Jeffrey R. Holland for a discussion of the topic.

If it is the Sacrament that makes Sacrament Meeting the most sacred and holy meeting in the Church, this clearly shows that in comparison with all other ordinances, the Sacrament is first in importance. Also, what is the most important principle of the Gospel? The Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ. What is the ordinance that, more than any other, encapsulates and memorializes His sacrifice? The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper.

David O. McKay also wrote or spoke about this, but I am not able at the moment to locate the pertinent quotation.

[Storm Rider]

The ordinance of the sacrament makes the sacrament meeting the most sacred and important meeting in the Church. -- Dallin Oaks

Joseph Fielding Smith is quoted in Doctrines of Salvation as having referred to the Sacrament Meeting, due to the administration of the Sacrament as “...the most sacred, the most holy, of all the meetings of the Church”. See this talk by Jeffrey R. Holland for a discussion of the topic.

If it is the Sacrament that makes Sacrament Meeting the most sacred and holy meeting in the Church, this clearly shows that in comparison with all other ordinances, the Sacrament is first in importance. Also, what is the most important principle of the Gospel? The Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ. What is the ordinance that, more than any other, encapsulates and memorializes His sacrifice? The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper.

David O. McKay also wrote or spoke about this, but I am not able at the moment to locate the pertinent quotation.

The context is a little different. Temple ordinances are not meetings. As far as meetings go, Sacrament is obviously the most sacred of all our meetings. The context is what guides here and should not be confused; we are talking apples and oranges.

[Stargazer]

The context is a little different. Temple ordinances are not meetings. As far as meetings go, Sacrament is obviously the most sacred of all our meetings. The context is what guides here and should not be confused; we are talking apples and oranges.

Yes, but it is the ordinance that makes the meeting sacred, not the other way around.

[Storm Rider]

Yes, but it is the ordinance that makes the meeting sacred, not the other way around.

without a doubt.

[bluebell]

You said that I said it was sinning to take the Sacrament lightly. My response is that I didn't say that.

Is it possible to take the sacrament lightly and not need to repent for doing so?

Edited April 8, 2012 by bluebell

[Stargazer]

Is it possible to take the sacrament lightly and not need to repent for doing so?

Probably not. Few members think about this, I'm sure.

[bluebell]

Probably not. Few members think about this, I'm sure.

So, even though you did not explicitly state that taking the sacrament lightly was sinning, was it unreasonable for me to assume that's what you meant and to respond to your post with that assumption in mind?

I am glad that you clarified though, as i apparently did misunderstand you. (but not purposefully or to create a strawman).

[Scott Lloyd]

We had a wonderful sacrament meeting today. Two beautiful choir selections. And the elders quorum president and his wife spoke on the Ressurection. He spoke of grief he has experienced over the death of loved ones over the years and the hope he has received.

I don't think I would have been more moved at an impressive service in the finest cathedral.

[Buzzard]

Our ward had F&T today. I was thinking about this thread as I listened to the testimonies. Many referred specifically to the atonement and ressurection of Christ, but some did not. All of us have attended enough testimony meetings understand why this is so.

Our religion does not have grand cathedrals. Our leaders are often not gifted orators. But what we do have is the testimony within each one of us, given by the Spirit, that compels us to go in front of our fellows and bear that witness. What better sermon of Christs ressurection than the heavily accented, sometimes stumbling words of a ordinary member who's heart was full today and could no longer bear to remain seated and silent, but instead was all but compelled to bear testimony of him?

Edited April 8, 2012 by Buzzard

[Stargazer]

So, even though you did not explicitly state that taking the sacrament lightly was sinning, was it unreasonable for me to assume that's what you meant and to respond to your post with that assumption in mind? Probably not.

I am glad that you clarified though, as i apparently did misunderstand you. (but not purposefully or to create a strawman).

Well, I don't know if there is an expressed sin called "taking the sacrament lightly". There's a specified sin connected with partaking unworthily, but they are not necessarily the same.

And just to go back to the spark of this line of discussion, namely the Easter holiday, I have to say that today's Sacrament meeting was particularly meaningful, especially because of the talk our immediate past RS president gave about Easter, the Criucifixion, the Atonement and Resurrection. Though her talk was everything I could have wanted to hear on a day devoted to commemorating Easter, when toward the beginning of her talk she said "And now I would like to proclaim, with you, that He is risen!" I felt my heart leap up within me in response.

He is Risen!

[KevinG]

Today our lessons were centered on Christ's Resurrection and the Atonement. we sung the Easter hymns and had a few special musical offerings from the choir and a soloist. When she sang "I know that my redeemer lives" there was not a dry eye in the house.

While I find in our ward that Christ is always the central topic - today's focus on Easter in music and word was very edifying. The Holy Spirit was felt strongly today.

[bluebell]

Well, I don't know if there is an expressed sin called "taking the sacrament lightly". There's a specified sin connected with partaking unworthily, but they are not necessarily the same.

And just to go back to the spark of this line of discussion, namely the Easter holiday, I have to say that today's Sacrament meeting was particularly meaningful, especially because of the talk our immediate past RS president gave about Easter, the Criucifixion, the Atonement and Resurrection. Though her talk was everything I could have wanted to hear on a day devoted to commemorating Easter, when toward the beginning of her talk she said "And now I would like to proclaim, with you, that He is risen!" I felt my heart leap up within me in response.

He is Risen!

[saemo]

No, I don't want to have another meeting to go to. Don't give them any ideas.

Ha. The triduum wipes me out, physically and emotionally. I went to our Easter vigil last night, which starts at 9pm and ends around midnight. It is the most amazing mass, the mother of all masses, if you will. Eleven people were baptized in our parish.I wouldnt miss it for the world. It fulfills the Catholic requirement of attending mass on Sunday, in other words, it is not a sin for me to not go to mass today. But I still had people ask me if I were going to mass today. I did that one year and it pushed my wiped out feeling to exhaustion. So I don't go on Sunday, it is very crowded anyway, all the Christmas/Easter Catholics, visiting family, and non-Catholics who come make it standing room only.

Christos anesti!

[Daniel Peterson]

Slightly belated Easter greetings to all!

(More completely expressed here: http://dcpsicetnon.b.../blog-post.html)

.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Daniel Peterson

[Stargazer]

Slightly belated Easter greetings to all! (More completely expressed here: http://dcpsicetnon.b.../blog-post.html) .

You might be interested to know that your column about your brother's death was mentioned and discussed in one of our Sacrament meeting talks today. The speaker's sibling either knows you or knows OF you. I don't know their name, so can't say.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I must admit that I have a "holy envy" of our Christian brothers and sisters. All of the focus and celebration surrounding Easter seems to be missing in Our (LDS) worship. Sure there will be talks on the resurrection on Sunday but I guess I wish we offered a sacrament meeting on the day of the last supper or some other holy week observance. Am I alone in this or are there others who long for more Easter season observances?

Suggestions...we had a great service. Special songs, and a talk by our Bishop which was the best I have ever heard by a Bishop in my 33 years as a member. Our focus is on Christ weekly...I wish it would be appropriate to ask the Bishop for a copy and post it here. It was all about the "Grace of Christ" and how we cannot save ourselves. We also had our primary do a song with the choir. It was great!

Here is my Easter poem...

Eternal Day

Look not with grief upon this place

Remove the sadness from thy face.

Lift up your face rejoice this day

The stone has now been rolled away!

Two angels stand to this they bear

The risen Lord he is not there.

He lives! To this the song we sing

Indeed, "Oh death where is thy sting"?

The battle fought, the battle won,

Behold our Lord, behold His Son.

See him walk beside the sea

That we of men may fishers be.

The empty tomb before us stands

Like evermore, now come to man.

For every soul who'll thus obey

The breaking dawn of eternal day.

With fervent voice we must proclaim

The risen Lord in joyous strain.

Our voices one now here us sing,

To our "Savior, Lord and King"

Did not our hearts within us burn

When of his love we first did learn?

That he for us would bleed and die

Oh precious gift for such as I.

From heavens gate, to mortal womb

From open grave, to empty tomb.

Once bound with chain to the earth

Now in death we find new birth.

With God and angels we shall dwell

We'll sing this chorus, "All is well."

Praise his name and honor give

That we with him may someday live.

In wilderness we shall not roam

The guide has come to lead us home.

His blood now spilt to mark the way

The breaking dawn of eternal day.

William E. lee

Copyright 1996

Edited April 9, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[blueadept]

Our ward had F&T today. I was thinking about this thread as I listened to the testimonies. Many referred specifically to the atonement and ressurection of Christ, but some did not. All of us have attended enough testimony meetings understand why this is so.

Our religion does not have grand cathedrals. Our leaders are often not gifted orators. But what we do have is the testimony within each one of us, given by the Spirit, that compels us to go in front of our fellows and bear that witness. What better sermon of Christs ressurection than the heavily accented, sometimes stumbling words of a ordinary member who's heart was full today and could no longer bear to remain seated and silent, but instead was all but compelled to bear testimony of him?

I believe your post reflects upon why some bishops have no problems in having a F&T meeting on an Easter Sunday since most LDS believe it's a meeting that BEST represents the LDS faith that you do want to share with others and I respect that.

Every Sunday should be a celebration of our Lord's Resurrection in all Christian churches. I still prefer the RCC's liturgical calendar approach with its seasons and special days in celebrating the life of Christ. To each their own I guess. Let the 50 days of the Easter Season begin.

Edited April 9, 2012 by blueadept

[jadams_4242]

I must admit that I have a "holy envy" of our Christian brothers and sisters. All of the focus and celebration surrounding Easter seems to be missing in Our (LDS) worship. Sure there will be talks on the resurrection on Sunday but I guess I wish we offered a sacrament meeting on the day of the last supper or some other holy week observance. Am I alone in this or are there others who long for more Easter season observances?

I beleive we observe easter as a very holy day.. that should not include a "celebration" or "performance" of a sacred event... on easter sunday the spirit is felt in sacrament meeting and shared thruout the congregation. we relize the reality of the sacredness of this most Holy day.....it is not to be temporaly celebrated.. it is to be recognized in our hearts, in our talks and given thanks to God for the holy time....:}

[Saints Alive]

Let's steer the conversation in a slightly different direction. I don't have a huge problem with Easter sacrament services in general. I was actually more interested in additional weekday services during holy week. i.e. perhaps a holy Thursday / Last Supper sacrament meeting.