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Temple Square "Demonstrators"

blooit

By blooit
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thesometimesaint Grand Master

thesometimesaint

Posted
Posted

blooit:

Being a jerk isn't an incitement to riot. These people crave the attention. They want to provoke us into illegal acts. They would like nothing better than a riot to ensue. It gives the members and the Church a bad name. We should give the protestors all the attention they deserve.

blueadept Proficient

blueadept

Posted
Posted (edited)

We had the typical handful of protesters at the LA Religious Education Congress (Catholic) in Anaheim this last weekend that was attended by 35,000 Catholics this year. I believe they're there to try to inform us with the hope that they can save a few of us who may listen. One of the regular protesters tried to walk into the main arena with the morning crowd but was stopped at the door and he asked the crowd 'where's the love?'. He was annoyed as Catholics streamed passed him and promised to pray for him. :air_kiss:

IMO, protesters are simply a part of the spiritual experience in attending events like GC and the LA REC.

Edited by blueadept
wenglund Grand Master

wenglund

Posted
Posted (edited)
IMO, protesters are simply a part of the spiritual experience in attending events like GC and the LA REC.

Well said. The contrast between what happens inside vs outside the events makes the inside experience all the more spiritually sweet.

I hope the demonstrators don't figure this out. We wouldn't want them to realize they are actually helping the faiths they are demonstrating against, and hurting themselves.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited by wenglund
Buzzard Mentor

Buzzard

Posted
Posted

Protestors are not dogs-don't take that from my comment-but they are like dogs in one respect. No matter what the breed, they are all just attention hounds. Besides, the missionaries singing at the top of their lungs the past few years have essentially fought them to a standstill.

Jeff K. Mentor

Jeff K.

Posted
Posted

Well said. The contrast between what happens inside vs outside the events makes the inside experience all the more spiritually sweet.

I hope the demonstrators don't figure this out. We wouldn't want them to realize they are actually helping the faiths they are demonstrating against, and hurting themselves.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

the analogy might be how the wide world is the spacious building while we remain in line awaiting our turn to receive from the tree of life. Lehi's vision writ large.

blueadept Proficient

blueadept

Posted
Posted (edited)

the analogy might be how the wide world is the spacious building while we remain in line awaiting our turn to receive from the tree of life. Lehi's vision writ large.

That would be a fair analogy for the LA REC since we occupy most of the nearby hotels, restaurants and the convention center itself for the weekend, inside and outside. The fact that we're right next to 'The Happiest Place on Earth' (Disneyland Slogan) doesn't hurt anything as well. :)

I would say the only major difference between GC and the LA REC is that you see A LOT more suits and dresses at GC and there's a lot more backpacks and folks with sack lunches at the LA REC :)

Edited by blueadept
Cobalt-70 Grand Master

Cobalt-70

Posted
Posted

Since when did freedom of speech allow for slander and libel? The antics perpetrated by the General Conference protestors (especially during the garment era of 2003-4 or whenever it was) would never be allowed anywhere else. Heck, I just saw a report on the news about a pastor getting arrested in California for reading the Bible outside of a DMV. It was called "creating a hostile atmosphere.

If reading straight out of a Bible is "creating a hostile atmosphere" then just what do you call the protestor gauntlet in SLC?

This pastor was not arrested for "creating a hostile atmosphere." He was arrested because his group did not have a permit for their protest. http://www.swrnn.com/2012/01/06/murrieta-evangelists-to-be-arraigned-on-misdemeanor-charge/ If the Conference protestors didn't get a permit, they would probably have the same issue.

cinepro Grand Master

cinepro

Posted
Posted

Since when did freedom of speech allow for slander and libel? The antics perpetrated by the General Conference protestors (especially during the garment era of 2003-4 or whenever it was) would never be allowed anywhere else. Heck, I just saw a report on the news about a pastor getting arrested in California for reading the Bible outside of a DMV. It was called "creating a hostile atmosphere.

If reading straight out of a Bible is "creating a hostile atmosphere" then just what do you call the protestor gauntlet in SLC?

It sounds like the pastor was reading the Bible (out loud) on DMV property in the direction of people in line?

Brett Anthony Coronado, 42, and Mark Allen Mackey, 59, are charged with conducting a demonstration on state grounds without a permit.

..............................

“What have I done wrong?” Mackey asked in the video.

“You’ve been asked to leave, and you didn’t,” [CHP Officer] Meyer replied. “You can preach on your own property. You can preach on a street corner. But you’re not allowed to preach here because this is a captive audience.”

Not sure how that will stand up in court, but it sounds like the issue wasn't that it was a Bible, but the way they were acting on DMV property.

Cobalt-70 Grand Master

Cobalt-70

Posted
Posted

Always, at least in modern U.S. history. Slander and libel is protected speech, although if it injures somebody the speaker has to pay.

Slander and libel are not Constitutionally protected speech. However, there are specific legal requirements for something to count as slander or libel. Basically, you have to cause financial harm to a private, living person by publicly making a factual statement (not merely stating an opinion, or something that would be commonly understood as merely an opinion) about that person that is provably false. You can also slander a public figure, but in that case you also have to prove that the person making the statement had a reckless disregard for the truth. It is impossible to slander a religion (at least, unless you live in Iran or Saudi Arabia). You would probably never see actual slander at a Temple Square protest.

Freedom Grand Master

Freedom

Posted
Posted

We had some success with one demonstrator during the open house of the Vancouver temple. One member of a local evangelical congregation camped on the sidewalk accepted our invitation to go on a tour of the temple much to the protests of his fellow Christians. When he saw what it actually was he was ashamed of the lies he was told and went home without saying goodbye to his friends. I don't know what came of it but it was clear his pastor lied to get his followers to carry their banners.

blooit Community Regular

blooit

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Last time I was there I stopped to thank the bagpipe player who was playing hymns over the top of the vitriol my kids were hearing. I probably stopped for 3 seconds when a very angry police officer threatened to arrest me if I didn't keep it moving.

What they have setup is a gauntlet of abuse through which you must walk and cannot respond. It's a terrible setup.

[note: I realize we can get permits to be there too, but our side will not be loud and abusive. It is despicable what has been done down there.]

blueadept Proficient

blueadept

Posted
Posted
We had some success with one demonstrator during the open house of the Vancouver temple. One member of a local evangelical congregation  camped on the sidewalk accepted our invitation to go on a tour of the temple much to the protests of his fellow Christians. When he saw what it actually was he was ashamed of the lies he was told and went home without saying goodbye to his friends. I don't know what came of it but it was clear his pastor lied to get his followers to carry their banners.

I've always recommend that non-LDS friends go to an open-house of a new LDS Temple if given the opportunity. It can resolve misconceptions that others may have.

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Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Always, at least in modern U.S. history. Slander and libel is protected speech, although if it injures somebody the speaker has to pay.

We should not get bent out of shape over the protesters. Their right to speak gives our Elders the right to go door to door. Many a city has tried to ban the Elders from going door to door, and the very law that gives the protesters the right to speak at GC gives our elders the right to speak. I'd say, rejoice in our constitutional rights - rights Canadians and the British lack.

Which reminds me of this:

Give the Devil the benefit of Law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-nJR15e0F4"

Edited by Stargazer
Jeff K. Mentor

Jeff K.

Posted
Posted (edited)

Last time I was there I stopped to thank the bagpipe player who was playing hymns over the top of the vitriol my kids were hearing. I probably stopped for 3 seconds when a very angry police officer threatened to arrest me if I didn't keep it moving.

What they have setup is a gauntlet of abuse through which you must walk and cannot respond. It's a terrible setup.

[note: I realize we can get permits to be there too, but our side will not be loud and abusive. It is despicable what has been done down there.]

What if we have an honor guard with permits? Marines and Airforce, Army, Navy in uniform who line up the entrance going in? Now wouldn't that be something. It would send a very clear message of respect without making a sound.

And yes, pipers.... I can see it now "Heed, we have a piper down...."

Edited by Jeff K.
BCSpace Grand Master

BCSpace

Posted
Posted (edited)
Give the Devil the benefit of Law.

Sounds well and good, but the important distinction made is "man's law", not all of which stand upright and protect from the wind and of those that do, not all are enforced or enforced correctly.

Edited by BCSpace
Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted
What underwear. Protestors go commando.

Perhaps you mean "regimental"?

http://www.fox-dreams.com/art/kilt

What is Regimental?

“Regimental” is Rennie/reenactor slang for wearing one’s kilt without the benefit of underwear. The origin of the term appears to be “regimental style”, referring to Scottish Regiments in the United Kingdom army, who wear their kilts this way.

Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted

Sounds well and good, but the important distinction made is "man's law", not all of which stand upright and protect from the wind and of those that do, not all are enforced or enforced correctly.

I think the point made in the movie is clear. We all know that man's law is imperfect, in se, and is imperfect in execution. For that matter, so is God's law as executed by man. But would you like to dispense with it? Or give great hulking exceptions to it? Not I. As Paul Scofield eloquently expresses More: "I give the devil benefit of law for my own safety's sake." Thus the protestors MUST be accorded the right to utter offensive speech, for our own safety.

Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted

http://www.urbandict...do&defid=686275

"Regimental" sounds a bit too...European to me. ;)

First time I have heard that use of the term -- thanks for the data download! Though I thought that was what it meant, from context of course. Didn't know it was "official"; thought it was a Bond-ism.

Avatar4321 Grand Master

Avatar4321

Posted
Posted

I still think the best way to deal with the protestors is to show kindness to them. Bake cookies for them. Bring them drinks. They want us to be angry. They will think twice if we demonstrate the love of Christ instead of ridicule them or get upset with them.

You know it may seem like a little thing, but we aren't supposed to ridicule people. Or make fun of them. or mock them. We are told that it's those in the Great and spacious building who point fingers and mock. If we are acting like them, how exactly can we claim to be at the tree of life rather than just in another room down the hall of the building?

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