Saints Alive Posted March 20, 2012 Author Posted March 20, 2012 My issue isn't so much with those who pay double as it is with those who think others should do the same. I once had a bishop chastise me for not paying tithing on birthday money ( it was a long time ago, I was being interviewed for advance ment to teacher. He asked if I payed tithing, I said I have no income, he said I should pay on birthday and Christmas money)
cinepro Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I'm sure there are many who don't worry too much about doubling up on tithing. My experience is that the Lord loves a person who freely gives enough that He will compensate for the extra. MWMy experience is that the Church loves it too.
Grundelwalken Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 My experience is that the Church loves it too.With the pittance I offer, it really won't make much difference. MW
Freedom Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Anything can be carried to the ridiculous.I believe, however, my hyperbole makes a valid point about gifts. You either pay on gifts or you don't. You must define 'increase' to avoid what you call the ridiculous. We each have a different standard of what is considered being carried to the ridiculous, but without setting a standard, you will be carried there nonetheless. Perhaps you can demonstrate where the line in the sand can be drawn, given the definition provided by the leadership of the church. I have only expressed my opinion of my standard and let others choose their own, but there must be some parameters set to avoid the problems I have noted.
Freedom Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 - cash gifts (yes)- material gifts (no, you likely give gifts also, so it's in the gift void)Besides being more liquid, how are these two different in terms of the law of tithing? I give and receive cash gifts, so why wouldn't a $50 this go into the same void as a computer or a trip to Disneyland?
blackstrap Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I was informed that there are a lot of "Price is Right" winning items that are not picked up because the TAX on the item is such that the winners cannot afford to pay so just leave the item. Similarly,if my uncle gives me his old Rolls Royce,do I accept the car and then sell it and pay tithing on it. He wanted me to keep the car as a family heirloom ,but I can't accept it because I can't keep the car AND pay tithing on its value. What a conundrum !
blackstrap Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Slightly off topic but I would like an answer from the bishops on the board. An endowed man attends church regularly but does not hold any callings.Under what circumstances would a bishop refuse to allow the man to pay tithing?
Freedom Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Slightly off topic but I would like an answer from the bishops on the board. An endowed man attends church regularly but does not hold any callings.Under what circumstances would a bishop refuse to allow the man to pay tithing?I am not currently a bishop but nobody is ever refused to pay tithing unless their earnings are of questionable origin such as crime. Non-members pay tithing in our ward.
Freedom Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I was informed that there are a lot of "Price is Right" winning items that are not picked up because the TAX on the item is such that the winners cannot afford to pay so just leave the item. Similarly,if my uncle gives me his old Rolls Royce,do I accept the car and then sell it and pay tithing on it. He wanted me to keep the car as a family heirloom ,but I can't accept it because I can't keep the car AND pay tithing on its value. What a conundrum !Well, my position is that you would not pay tithing on the car because it is a gift and not income. I do not pay tithing on my Christmas or birthday gifts. To you a car may be in a different category, but to a Somalian, my new computer could have fed their family for a few months. Take away the price tag and apply the principle of the tithe. It is based on what you earn in income.
rpn Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 First, since we know that no one asks us the source of the tithing, isn't it a grand myth that the church doesn't accept tithing on lottery money?Second, I pay on grants and scholarships, but not when that doesn't pass through my own hands. When it is paid on my behalf, it is not my increase (though I will have to think about whether not paying tithing would mean I'd owe a tenth of my labor after getting the degree).
Saints Alive Posted March 21, 2012 Author Posted March 21, 2012 Non-members pay tithing in our ward.I am pretty sure they aren't supposes to.
Saints Alive Posted March 21, 2012 Author Posted March 21, 2012 (though I will have to think about whether not paying tithing would mean I'd owe a tenth of my labor after getting the degree).You do anyway, that is basically your income i.e. the compensation for your labor. There aren't many farmers any more but there was a time when they gave a tenth of their crops to the church. The leads me to another point. If I grow a garden should I give a tenth of my crop to the church?
blackstrap Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) You do anyway, that is basically your income i.e. the compensation for your labor. There aren't many farmers any more but there was a time when they gave a tenth of their crops to the church.The leads me to another point. If I grow a garden should I give a tenth of my crop to the church?If your garden is big enough,even the tax man will consider it income. Edited March 21, 2012 by blackstrap
jskains Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 The problem is this was debated by the early Church leaders, and the RLDS took one direction, and the LDS have gone on another.The theory is it is INCREASE, not INCOME. That is your leftovers after all nessesary expenses have been paid (rent, food, etc. etc.).I don't know the details of the debates (IE: what side Joseph Smith was on), but the official official position is it's between you and God. But I can assure anyone that the idea wraps around the problematic issue of people who live beyond their means (IE: have fancy cars, and fancy houses), so the line blurs between nessesity and extravigance.JMS
thesometimesaint Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Saints Alive:The Church no longer accepts in-kind tithing payments. When farmers sell their crops that is when tithing is due.
ERayR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I believe, however, my hyperbole makes a valid point about gifts. You either pay on gifts or you don't. You must define 'increase' to avoid what you call the ridiculous. We each have a different standard of what is considered being carried to the ridiculous, but without setting a standard, you will be carried there nonetheless. Perhaps you can demonstrate where the line in the sand can be drawn, given the definition provided by the leadership of the church. I have only expressed my opinion of my standard and let others choose their own, but there must be some parameters set to avoid the problems I have noted.If you want to deal in hyperbole try this one. If some one hands you the deed to a 500,000 house is that increase to you or not? It is my opinion that you have been given a pretty substantial increase. Do you pay tithing or not? It is obvious, to me, that you don't just disregard gifts when paying tithing. However, to add up the Christmas and birthday gifts doesn't make sense to me either. One should find a place where they are comfortable that they can tell the Bishop that they are full tithe payers.
ERayR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Well, my position is that you would not pay tithing on the car because it is a gift and not income. I do not pay tithing on my Christmas or birthday gifts. To you a car may be in a different category, but to a Somalian, my new computer could have fed their family for a few months. Take away the price tag and apply the principle of the tithe. It is based on what you earn in income.No it is based on your increase. How much more do you have at the end of a period of time than you had at the beginning.
Senator Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 If some one hands you the deed to a 500,000 house is that increase to you or not? It is my opinion that you have been given a pretty substantial increase. Do you pay tithing or not? It is obvious, to me, that you don't just disregard gifts when paying tithing. How would one pay tithing on said 500,000 gift house, if one doesn't have 50,000 sitting around in a bank account?
Saints Alive Posted March 21, 2012 Author Posted March 21, 2012 No it is based on your increase. How much more do you have at the end of a period of time than you had at the beginning.Of that is the case than if I make 100,000 in a year but only have 1,000 in my bank at the end of the year, after taxes, bills, etc. do I only owe 100 in tithing?
ERayR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 First, since we know that no one asks us the source of the tithing, isn't it a grand myth that the church doesn't accept tithing on lottery money?Second, I pay on grants and scholarships, but not when that doesn't pass through my own hands. When it is paid on my behalf, it is not my increase (though I will have to think about whether not paying tithing would mean I'd owe a tenth of my labor after getting the degree).Just a thought, even if it doesn't pass through your hands does not mean it is not your increase. If it is paid on your behalf and you do not have to pay a bill, say your books, is it not increase to you? You have increase to the extent of the cost of those books. Just presenting another perspective.
blackstrap Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I cannot have my cake and eat it too. If I receive a $500,000 house as a gift,there is no way I can come up with $50,000 to pay tithing.If and when I sell the house,then it will be possible(capital gains not withstanding). When is it an increase to me?
jskains Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 You cut off 10% of your new house and ship it to the Church.JMS
ERayR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 How would one pay tithing on said 500,000 gift house, if one doesn't have 50,000 sitting around in a bank account?I wrote that I was dealing in hyperbole. Do you really expect someone to hand you the deed to a 500,000 house? It was to demonstrate that although one doesn't pay tithes on birthday presents, gifts can and are increases and at some point become tithable.
jskains Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I wrote that I was dealing in hyperbole. Do you really expect someone to hand you the deed to a 500,000 house? It was to demonstrate that although one doesn't pay tithes on birthday presents, gifts can and are increases and at some point become tithable.Inheritence.
Recommended Posts