Calm Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Is economic backup the only reason a woman should pursue an education?Absolutely not. Education can aid in self-development, allowing one to develop talents and skills that make life more meaningful and rich as well as aids in teaching others, helping them to develop such talents and skills, especially meaningful for a parent. It is a great feeling to know you have helped your child overcome a problem they are struggling with in school or elsewhere through teaching them how to expand their own abilities and thinking, not just as an emotional or physical support.Education leads to greater health, greater financial security for a variety of reasons and several other aspects of life that adds to the quality of that life and others' lives one you may impact. Education should always have a role in your life, whether it's formal or less structured. The Church promotes this strongly for its female members, but keeps it pretty vague so that it can be tailored for the individual need. We have the RS Literacy Program, the Perpetual Education Fund, I know of a number of church members who have set up their own foundations to aid members in other countries that have less educational resources.
LDSToronto Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Oh, not in the US. We just dream of going to the bathroom by ourselves.What I meant was, perhaps there is a part of cultural Mormonism that has not migrated north of 49.H.
Log Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Should either men or women pursue credentialing (what is termed "education" nowadays) in the service of worldly ambition?Is pursuing one's worldly ambitions as noble a choice as serving one's fellow man?
Calm Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Change the word 'part' to 'expectation' and I will agree.H.What are you trying to convey by changing from "part" to "expectation"? Edited March 18, 2012 by calmoriah
Calm Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Not my experience at all. Most LDS women I know, and perhaps it's in Canada only that this happens, can't wait until their kids are old enough to be alone after school so that they can pursue vocational and educational interests.So if they plan on continuing their interests after the kids are old enough, how has marriage been an end to hopes or aspirations? At worst, it could be described as a delay or interruption.
Calm Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 What I meant was, perhaps there is a part of cultural Mormonism that has not migrated north of 49.H.I lived in Canada for almost 15 years and the conversations I had with women there on this subject were pretty much the same as down here.
LDSToronto Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 What are you trying to convey by changing from "part" to "expectation"?There is an expectation that women should align their hopes and dreams with marriage and child-rearing.H.
LDSToronto Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I lived in Canada for almost 15 years and the conversations I had with women there on this subject were pretty much the same as down here.Then we've talked to different people and had different experiences.H.
LDSToronto Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 So if they plan on continuing their interests after the kids are old enough, how has marriage been an end to hopes or aspirations? At worst, it could be described as a delay or interruption.Well, why don't we ask men to delay their career or education to raise the children while mom continues her education or advances her career?H.
LDSToronto Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Should either men or women pursue credentialing (what is termed "education" nowadays) in the service of worldly ambition?Is pursuing one's worldly ambitions as noble a choice as serving one's fellow man?Yes.H.
MorningStar Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Well, why don't we ask men to delay their career or education to raise the children while mom continues her education or advances her career?H.That's not very practical. Women are sometimes put on bedrest for long periods of time due to pregnancy complications and if they want to breastfeed for a significant amount of time, it's hard to keep up with the demands of pumping. Then there's the recovery period after delivery, the sleep deprivation, etc. That's the way nature designed the situation. It's easier for a husband to have stable employment.
LDSToronto Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 That's not very practical. Women are sometimes put on bedrest for long periods of time due to pregnancy complications and if they want to breastfeed for a significant amount of time, it's hard to keep up with the demands of pumping. Then there's the recovery period after delivery, the sleep deprivation, etc. That's the way nature designed the situation. It's easier for a husband to have stable employment.Maternity leave seems to have this covered in most progressive countries. In Canada, parents are given 1 year of combined parental leave to divide as they see fit. Most times, the mother takes most of this leave.H.
MorningStar Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Maternity leave seems to have this covered in most progressive countries. In Canada, parents are given 1 year of combined parental leave to divide as they see fit. Most times, the mother takes most of this leave.H.That's not the case here. It's very rare for men to have paternity leave. Women get about 3 months unpaid maternity leave. A friend was telling me she had to apply for temporary disability and companies aren't allowed to fire you over it. In my marriage, it made a lot more sense for my husband to progress in his career since I was ill during the majority of my 9 months of pregnancy. I can't even imagine going to work during that time. After my babies were born, I only got 1 or 2 hours of sleep at a time. I don't know how employed moms do it!
bluebell Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 That's not the case here. It's very rare for men to have paternity leave. Women get about 3 months unpaid maternity leave. The law may have changed and i'm not aware (because i haven't really had to worry about this in a while), but when i was having my first, the law only required a company provide 6 weeks of materinty leave for a new mom. It's crazy.
bluebell Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Maternity leave seems to have this covered in most progressive countries. In Canada, parents are given 1 year of combined parental leave to divide as they see fit. Most times, the mother takes most of this leave.H.Some women have really difficult pregnancies and can't work (or work full time). Maternity leave doesn't usually cover anything before the baby is born.
LDSToronto Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Some women have really difficult pregnancies and can't work (or work full time). Maternity leave doesn't usually cover anything before the baby is born.In Canada you can start mat leave whenever you want.But I think this misses the point. The point I'm making is that women can have career and family if they want. And neither has to suffer. H.
Deborah Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 But I think this misses the point. The point I'm making is that women can have career and family if they want. And neither has to suffer.That is a matter of opinion and in fact depends largely on the demands of the job and who is watching the baby (relative or day care). I do not recommend day care facilities to anyone. I've worked in them seen the results of babies brought up in them.
Jeff K. Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Is economic backup the only reason a woman should pursue an education?You need to read and understand my post. The last sentence should have answered your question.
Jeff K. Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 What I meant was, perhaps there is a part of cultural Mormonism that has not migrated north of 49.H.I know some Canadian members of the church, it appears you are skewing the position of Canadian saints/wives and mothers, who seem to understand the issue with significantly greater knowledge than you appear to. It gives you the image of trolling or blatant ignorance.
Jeff K. Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Maternity leave seems to have this covered in most progressive countries. In Canada, parents are given 1 year of combined parental leave to divide as they see fit. Most times, the mother takes most of this leave.H.That isn't true, anyone who has children would certainly know better.
Jeff K. Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 There are many things that suffer and choices made for both the career and parenthood. To say one can do either with sacrificing something elsewhere is not always the case. For example, I traveled extensively while my wife remained at home. This necessitated me being away from the family, when we moved for company business to a foriegn land, the same occurred. Sacrifices were made. It is naive to believe opportunity costs, familial or otherwise do not occur. The question is whether or not those sacrifices are for the best. That is where the Lord's help comes into play, helping us as a family decide what is best.I realize some reject the idea that such a thing exists. It is unfortunate, even as most here will bear witness that it does, while those who reject it do so because they cannot pull on that part of the Lord's gifts. Such is the dilemma for such posters.
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Well, why don't we ask men to delay their career or education to raise the children while mom continues her education or advances her career?I'm a man, and I deferred completing my PhD for nearly two years whilst helping one of my former Young Men navigate his way through the legal system (all the way to the territorial supreme court) in order to avoid conviction on a false charge. (When he first came to me for help, it was his intention merely to plead guilty because he was convinced no one would believe his side of things due to his skin colour, and he was probably right. Thankfully, in the end we succeeded in getting the case dropped last year, and now he doesn't have to spend the next 15 years in gaol!)No one knows this outside my bishop, but, if people did know, I'm confident a certain percentage of them would think I'm crazy. I'm OK with that, but I don't want to create a family with one of those people. 1
LDSToronto Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I know some Canadian members of the church, it appears you are skewing the position of Canadian saints/wives and mothers, who seem to understand the issue with significantly greater knowledge than you appear to. It gives you the image of trolling or blatant ignorance.I was sharing my experience, just as you are. I can appreciate a difference in experiences, Jeff.H.
LDSToronto Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Maternity leave seems to have this covered in most progressive countries. In Canada, parents are given 1 year of combined parental leave to divide as they see fit. Most times, the mother takes most of this leave.That isn't true, anyone who has children would certainly know better.What isn't true? That Canada has 1 year of parental leave? As a Canadian who has benefited from this parental leave, I can assure you I wasn't lying. Please refer to this website for more information: http://www.serviceca...yparental.shtmlH. Edited March 19, 2012 by LDSToronto
LDSToronto Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 There are many things that suffer and choices made for both the career and parenthood. To say one can do either with sacrificing something elsewhere is not always the case. For example, I traveled extensively while my wife remained at home. This necessitated me being away from the family, when we moved for company business to a foriegn land, the same occurred. Sacrifices were made. It is naive to believe opportunity costs, familial or otherwise do not occur. The question is whether or not those sacrifices are for the best. That is where the Lord's help comes into play, helping us as a family decide what is best.I realize some reject the idea that such a thing exists. It is unfortunate, even as most here will bear witness that it does, while those who reject it do so because they cannot pull on that part of the Lord's gifts. Such is the dilemma for such posters.Jeff, the problem I see is that when people make sacrifices like you have, they feel everyone should make the same sacrifices. I have kids, all well-adjusted, all on the right path in their life. My wife got an advanced education and has worked every day of their lives, save the maternity leave she took. My family has never suffered; in fact, we have an economic advantage over pretty much every family in our (former) ward who did not do the same - we have no debt, we have almost paid our house, we are able to cover tuition, we have a great retirement setup, and because we've had money, we have had many advantages that our friends who made different choices don't have.Now, you could argue that I am an apostate, so really, what matters. But I did not go inactive because my wife works; she did not go inactive because she works. And my family life is great.The whole point here is that a one-size-fits-all commandment doesn't work for everyone. H. 1
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