Single Men, Marriage And Pre-Adult Limbo

[bluebell]

That's true; many members would never say outright they have no faith in God to do X, for varying values of X; but watching what they do and listening to what they say, they betray nothing consistent with a belief that God in fact does X, apart from a possible pro-forma assertion that God does, in fact, do X.

Belief that the Lord won't do it all, does not equal a belief that God won't do anything. Not expecting a specific intervention from God does not equate to a belief that God's not involved.

In most issues in life, i think people who have faith in God to order their lives according to His best plan for them believe that doing all they can is how they gain access to the blessings God has in store for them. Most people of faith believe that faith is an action word. I think that's all that GingerRed is saying.

Edited March 18, 2012 by bluebell

[Mormonme]

Don't derail the thread.

My intention is not to 'derail' the thread. I merely want to make the point that at least a small percentage of these unmarried men are gay. Accusing me of derailing the thread is doing nothing but belittling them. Are they worth less that the single 'straight' unmarried men?

[Mormonme]

PS... than even

[Log]

Belief that the Lord won't do it all...

I'm going to stop you there and ask "what is this 'it' that the Lord won't completely do?"

[GingerRed]

Belief that the Lord won't do it all, does not equal a belief that God won't do anything. Not expecting a specific intervention from God does not equate to a belief that God's not involved.

In most issues in life, i think people who have faith in God to order their lives according to His best plan for them believe that doing all they can is how they gain access to the blessings God has in store for them. Most people of faith believe that faith is an action word. I think that's all that GingerRed is saying.

Yes!! Thank you Bluebell!

[Log]

Great - so, questions to both of you:

1) Is there a Divine Matchmaker?

2) If #1 is "yes," then what are the limits to this Divine Matchmaking?

Let us presume that you're hypothetical Saints in the full sense of the word.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Log

[GingerRed]

I am male, and I am an active member.

Do you believe that God performs the role of a Divine Matchmaker?

Yes I believe He can....but that doesn't mean he WILL. when I find my 'Divine Match' I will let you know.

Are you single?

[Log]

I am single, but unfortunately, dear Sister, you are outside of my age range.

(Yes, I had to throw that in! Not that you were asking me out )

Edited March 18, 2012 by Log

[Mormonme]

What is wrong with women who want to finish an education or take control of their own reproductive agency? I would say that this is nobody's business, but I don't believe that - in a world where there are attitudes that tell women they have to put marriage and children before education and career, I believe that society is obliged to interfere and teach girls and women that they should put themselves first, get educations, and determine for themselves when, with whom, and how many, children will enter into their lives.

I applaud your free thinking, intelligent stance. But fear you may not last long in the big Mormon bubble with a view like that.

[selek1]

Let us presume that you're hypothetical Saints in the full sense of the word.

Which word? "Saints"? or "Hypothetical"?

To my limited understanding, God's role as "matchmaker" is complicated by two incontrovertible truths:

First, no person will be denied a blessing to which they are entitled,

and

Second, God will not violate our agency or force us to be with someone against our will.

Personally, I think your point about not trusting God because we prepare ourselves is hypothetical and semantic nonsense.

What is the difference between "luck" and proper preparation?

Between "tactical brilliance" and "foresight"?

There is no record of evidence of the Lord giving a blessing to someone who had neither prepared himself for or lived worthily of that blessing. Once those preconditions have been met, however, blessings flow beyond all expectation.

By preparing ourselves spiritually, morally, and temporally, we are in fact fulfilling the Lord's commandment to be wise and profitable servants.

We are readying ourselves to receive blessings he already wishes to bestow.

Contrary to your implication, that is an act of faith, rather than faithlessness.

By preparing ourselves, physically, mentally, and morally, we are in fact taking the Lord at his word.

[Calm]

Great - so, questions to both of you:

1) Is there a Divine Matchmaker?

2) If #1 is "yes," then what are the limits to this Divine Matchmaking?

Let us presume that you're hypothetical Saints in the full sense of the word.

This line of discussion is reminding me of a certain joke:

A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter."

http://www.ahajokes.com/reg28.html

I equate everything Ginger Red describes as climbing in one of the boats or helicopters. Log's criticism comes across (and perhaps I am missing something here so that is why it does) as if he is the man on the rooftop telling someone who is climbing into the boat that they have no faith in God as the Divine Rescuer.

[Log]

So, Selek1, as you don't understand the hypothetical, why not just refrain from responding?

And it appears Cal also doesn't quite get it.

So apparently I have failed to communicate the question properly.

Let me try again.

Let us presume you have been fully obedient to the commandments. You have been perfected in Christ, and retain a remission of your sins from day to day.

Let us presume, in other words, that the "work on yourself" bit has already been done.

What's the Lord's part in your obtaining eternal companionship?

Edited March 18, 2012 by Log

[GingerRed]

I am single, but unfortunately, dear Sister, you are outside of my age range.

(Yes, I had to throw that in! Not that you were asking me out )

No I defiantly was NOT asking you out....I should have asked..are you married. Cause I was ready to say ( if you were married) then how did the Lord put you and YOUR Divine Match together?

So since you are single...then explain to us what YOU expect the Lord to do to get you your Divine Match?

[Calm]

So, Selek1, as you don't understand the hypothetical, why not just refrain from responding?

And it appears Cal also doesn't quite get it.

So apparently I have failed to communicate the question properly.

Let me try again.

Thank you.

[selek1]

So, Selek1, as you don't understand the hypothetical, why not just refrain from responding?

I'm sorry- I was under the impression that you wanted honest discussion.

How silly of me to try and provide a good faith answer to your question, as best I understood it.

I equate everything Ginger Red describes as climbing in one of the boats or helicopters. Log's criticism comes across (and perhaps I am missing something here so that is why it does) as if he is the man on the rooftop telling someone who is climbing into the boat that they have no faith in God as the Divine Rescuer.

This corresponds to my understanding of Log's arguments, as well.

And it appears Cal also doesn't quite get it.

So apparently I have failed to communicate the question properly.

Let me try again.

I await the latest permutation with baited breath. Edited March 18, 2012 by selek1

[Duncan]

No I defiantly was NOT asking you out....I should have asked..are you married. Cause I was ready to say ( if you were married) then how did the Lord put you and YOUR Divine Match together?

So since you are single...then explain to us what YOU expect the Lord to do to get you your Divine Match?

I would say that divine matchmaking is that God is creating the situations in where two people can meet and fall in love, I guess it falls in line with the idea that God wants you to meet certain people and possibly marry one. So as a single you want to believe that God is in this situation somewhere and trying to help you because then the other idea of God is in the details of your life and knows everything makes sense

[Mormonme]

Better yet... Just ignore the Gays. They don't count. If they weren't clever enough to get out when they were young they probably committed suicide. Oh wait... Of course, we live in Utah - most of them did. lol. It's just that damned inconvenient few left over causing all the trouble.

Single Men, Marriage and Pre-Adult Limbo?

***Warning*** To all the heterosexual females who haven't hooked a man within 2 weeks of him returning from his mission... Beware, he's possibly gay!

***Warning*** To all the heterosexual males returning from your mission... Get married quick, or they'll think you're gay!

[blackstrap]

I wonder if the Lord had any influence with regard to the story of Nibleys method of finding a wife,when so directed by the Brethern.

[Log]

Reposting so that it doesn't get missed:

Let us presume you have been fully obedient to the commandments. You have been perfected in Christ, and retain a remission of your sins from day to day.

Let us presume, in other words, that the "work on yourself" bit has already been done.

What's the Lord's part in your obtaining eternal companionship?

[Duncan]

Granted though I think you could miss out on people. I have a brother, 40.5, who has a great job, education, RM and he has met some wonderful girls in his life but he has never ever had a girlfriend, doesn't have any friends and prefers his own company, I don't want to rag on the guy but I think he is missing out on some great people. Once when he was in Edmonton which is FULL of lds women, his bishop had him over for dinner and sat him across the table from 3 girls and all he mentioned was how good the meal was. My Mum hit the roof, the meal wasn't the point! Now, it's his perogative not to ask any of them out but he doesn't get people or relationships and I think he is past the point of people trying to get him into one. He just doesn't like people, he wants to be single and left alone

[selek1]

Reposting so that it doesn't get missed:

Let us presume you have been fully obedient to the commandments. You have been perfected in Christ, and retain a remission of your sins from day to day.

Let us presume, in other words, that the "work on yourself" bit has already been done.

What's the Lord's part in your obtaining eternal companionship?

To begin with, I don't believe repentance and exaltation are ever "done"- there's always room for improvement. Nor do I believe we reach a point (at least in this life) where we're "perfected" and can stop "polishing the cannonball".

So, on that basis, I reject your premise, as written.

For the sake of argument, however, I would posit that once we achieve a certain level of preparedness, the Lord's obligation would be limited to "arranging an introduction" and promptings from the Spirit (to both parties) that "this might be the one."

As stated above, God cannot and will not violate our agency.

Edited March 18, 2012 by selek1

[GingerRed]

Reposting so that it doesn't get missed:

Let us presume you have been fully obedient to the commandments. You have been perfected in Christ, and retain a remission of your sins from day to day.

Let us presume, in other words, that the "work on yourself" bit has already been done.

What's the Lord's part in your obtaining eternal companionship?

No I want to hear YOUR side first. What do YOU believe is the Lord's part in YOU obtaining an eternal companion? Why are YOU still single? What is the Lord not doing for YOU? Let's hear YOUR thoughts.

Edited March 18, 2012 by GingerRed

[Duncan]

I wonder if the Lord had any influence with regard to the story of Nibleys method of finding a wife,when so directed by the Brethern.

that;s interesting, I don't have any answers. I do know that chastity and the single life are factors when people leave the Church. Why wait around for someone who may never come here when i could be out with someone not of our faith and then why bother with Church I have everythign here and now. I have seen people leave the Church so much but I know people who marry non members and stay active and sometimes help in their conversion, my own dad did that with my Mom! she has always been active and my dad has had periods of inactivity

[GingerRed]

To begin with, I don't believe repentance and exaltation are ever "done"- there's always room for improvement. Nor do I believe we reach a point (at least in this life) where we're "perfected" and can stop "polishing the cannonball".

So, on that basis, I reject your premise, as written.

For the sake of argument, however, I would posit that once we achieve a certain level of preparedness, the Lord's obligation would be limited to "arranging an introduction" and promptings from the Spirit (to both parties) that "this might be the one."

As stated above, God cannot and will not violate our agency.

Well said!

[Duncan]

I get sick when I see sometimes people saying in effect that they are more blessed or its some kind of a badge of honour to get married so quick out of high school or just off the mission, some but not all!