inquiringmind Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 How would you define "an Abrahamic Test"?
volgadon Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 In the LDS understanding it is fulfilling a commandment given to you personally that tests to the utmost your love for and obedience to God.
Duncan Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 how do you know if you passed or failed? is there some way in this life to know? Some people have had it pretty dang good in life and I am baffled to know what there test is
inquiringmind Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 Why did God ask for the sacrifice of Isaac's life (when He never really intended any harm to come to the boy)?Why did Joseph ask for Heber Kimbel's wife (Violet) when he never wanted her?These are the only two Abrahamic tests I can think of right now, but do they show some kind of pastern?
inquiringmind Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 This is interesting.http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/sperry-symposium-classics-old-testament/abrahamic-test
Calm Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I would describe it as being placed in a position where we learn whether or not we will choose God above all else in our lives. At times this requires us to live through what is being commanded (as only experience and endurance can be a full test for that type of choice, commitment not being able to be given in a one time event of sacrifice), for others after the choice has been made, God may restore to us what we were willing to lay on the altar for him.To become fully one with another, it seems to me that we must be willing to give of ourselves completely, holding nothing back---we must be as willing to give of ourselves as being accepting of what God is willing to give to us; thus an Abrahamic test for those seeking to be one with God is a necessity in my view. Edited February 2, 2012 by calmoriah 1
CV75 Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Why did God ask for the sacrifice of Isaac's life (when He never really intended any harm to come to the boy)?Why did Joseph ask for Heber Kimbel's wife (Violet) when he never wanted her?These are the only two Abrahamic tests I can think of right now, but do they show some kind of pastern?The pattern I see is that the tester tests the testee in the area in which the testee is already most like the tester.
Deborah Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 For the early saints plural marriage was an Abrahamic test.It can be anything in your own life that requires great sacrifice.
Jaybear Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 For the early saints plural marriage was an Abrahamic test.It can be anything in your own life that requires great sacrifice.Nah. Three reasons.1. God spoke directly to Abraham. Polygamy could only loosely be contrued as an abrahamic test to Joseph Smith. Everyone else was introduced to the doctrine through Smith.2. Even then its overtly offensive to compare Smith's sacrifice of having to marry Fanny Alger and others young girls to the sacrifice God demanded of Abraham. 3. Polygamy was not a test of faith, it was a restored doctrine essential to salvation.
LeSellers Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 How would you define "an Abrahamic Test"?Abraham was required to give up that thing he cherished above all else: his son and heir.I don't know what my Abrahamic Test might be, whatever it is, the thought is horrifying to me. To put myself in Abraham's position, to understand that all I hold dear could be required of me, makes me quiver with dread.The good thing is, in my mind, that Abraham's test, offering Isaac, is not going to be mine because I know the outcome of that one. So my children are safe. But what isn't safe is me. Because, unless I'm willing to give it up, I'd fail my Abrahamic Test, and that is an unsettling thought.When our house burned to the ground, we learned one very important lesson: If you can't walk away from it, you don't own it—it owns you. I believe t here is a connection, but am unsure exactly what the linkage is.Lehi
Deborah Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Polygamy was not a test of faith, it was a restored doctrine essential to salvation.Given the time and culture it was most definitely a test of faith, whether a restoration of doctrine or not, but you go ahead and project your lustful thoughts onto Joseph.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) ScoutingThis may be the deepest response you have ever given. Edited February 3, 2012 by Mola Ram Suda Ram
Senator Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 This may be the deepest response you have ever given.It appears you have personal issues with me.Feel free to ignore my comments, lest you turn into a stalker.
wenglund Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Nah. Three reasons.1. God spoke directly to Abraham.Polygamy could only loosely be contrued as an abrahamic test to Joseph Smith. Everyone else was introduced to the doctrine through Smith.2. Even then its overtly offensive to compare Smith's sacrifice of having to marry Fanny Alger and others young girls to the sacrifice God demanded of Abraham. 3. Polygamy was not a test of faith, it was a restored doctrine essential to salvation.I am not sure which is more baffling, for the faithless to presume to lecture the faithful about faith (I am speaking here about LDS faith), or those who have flunked various tests of faith presuming to lecture the faithful about faith. LOLThanks, -Wade Englund-
Jaybear Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 I am not sure which is more baffling, for the faithless to presume to lecture the faithful about faith (I am speaking here about LDS faith), or those who have flunked various tests of faith presuming to lecture the faithful about faith. LOLThanks, -Wade Englund-Right, because one has to believe in your conception of God, to recognize a failed analogy.
wenglund Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Right, because one has to believe in your conception of God, to recognize a failed analogy.It is about humility, and thus outside your field of experience. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
altersteve Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Why did God ask for the sacrifice of Isaac's life (when He never really intended any harm to come to the boy)?To teach Abraham about the Atonement. The sacrifice of Isaac was symbolic of God sacrificing His Son (see Jacob 4:5).
Peppermint Patty Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 ScoutingI was going to say Ward Librarian.
Calm Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 This may be the deepest response you have ever given.I would disagree. My memory says that Senator has contributed many substantives posts in the past, though perhaps lately he has gotten into shorter responses. Even I, who can talk for hours and hours on end (no off switch), have tired of posting epics so I understand why he might be posting on the lighter side these days. 2
Calm Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 I was going to say Ward Librarian.Ward Librarian is one of my favourite callings, I can be obsessive as I want AND not have to sit for three straight hours.
KevinG Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Nah. Three reasons.1. God spoke directly to Abraham.Polygamy could only loosely be contrued as an abrahamic test to Joseph Smith. Everyone else was introduced to the doctrine through Smith.2. Even then its overtly offensive to compare Smith's sacrifice of having to marry Fanny Alger and others young girls to the sacrifice God demanded of Abraham. 3. Polygamy was not a test of faith, it was a restored doctrine essential to salvation.I was once asked directly by God (and through my wife) to prepare for her to be taken from me and that I should marry another (younger) woman to continue my family. In this case all of the above applied to me. I did not know this was a test that would be removed from me once I turned my heart and mind towards obedience to God. I struggled mightily with the one thing I had the most difficulty doing in the world - that is loving God enough to sacrifice my greatest love.That was an Abrahamic test for me. I did everything from denying the promptings which came through my wife and directly to myself to cursing God for asking me to give up my beloved wife earlier than I expected in my life. It was finally when I submitted to God and said "thy will be done" that there was some peace and a "Ram in the thicket" of a significant recovery of my wifes health.I find your hand waving dismissal of Joseph and other early Saints struggles to be petty and offensive.
why me Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Nah. Three reasons.1. God spoke directly to Abraham.Polygamy could only loosely be contrued as an abrahamic test to Joseph Smith. Everyone else was introduced to the doctrine through Smith.2. Even then its overtly offensive to compare Smith's sacrifice of having to marry Fanny Alger and others young girls to the sacrifice God demanded of Abraham. 3. Polygamy was not a test of faith, it was a restored doctrine essential to salvation.Your three statements may be wrong. What happened to the saints in their history can be understood as an abrahamic test with all the persecution that they experienced. With polygamy, many failed the test: such as David Whitmer or Oliver Cowdery or William Law among others. Even Emma almost failed the test. And even now when members look into polygamy, they may become disappointed and leave the church. They may also have failed the test.We also need to remember that under the law Joseph was not married to other women. Fanny had no problem marrying Solomon and she didn't need a divorce. It was a sealing and it seems that fanny had no problem with that principal. I think that she passed the test.
why me Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Given the time and culture it was most definitely a test of faith, whether a restoration of doctrine or not, but you go ahead and project your lustful thoughts onto Joseph.If Joseph was lustful, his wives did not see him as such. No one claimed that he was a lustful man with his libido controlling his brain. I don't think that not one wife ever said a harsh word about him before or after he was murdered. And that is quite amazing for such an 'egotist' as Joseph Smith, if the critics are correct. And you are right about the time and place. In arabia, it would not be an abrahamic test. But in 19th century america with protestant puritanism influencing social norms....it would be an abrahamic test for both men and women.And Joseph Smith was on his way to failing the test if we consider that he stopped the practice for several years after being sealed to fanny. And continued it again in the early 40's in what seems to be under great pressure.
Senator Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I would disagree. My memory says that Senator has contributed many substantives posts in the past, though perhaps lately he has gotten into shorter responses. Even I, who can talk for hours and hours on end (no off switch), have tired of posting epics so I understand why he might be posting on the lighter side these days.Why, thanks, Cal!That deserves a rep point!And yes I have simply come to the point where I feel little need to engage neither critically nor apologetically in all things mormon. I've somewhat dried up on the subject; and for me at this point in my life, that's probably a good thing. Edited February 4, 2012 by Senator
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