Time To Talk Football, Baseball And Basketball, On Sunday.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

My class yesterday was on “The Sabbath Day”. I asked for opinions about the Sabbath day. One member said we should not watch TV on Sunday. One said we should not shop or attend sporting events.

We then spoke about professions that were “needed”; such as Police, Doctors, EMT’s Fireman and so forth. Then comes the question; that too this member represents a double whammy (not sure how to spell this word), of watching sports on TV and the Mormons on the team.

I remember a story once about a BYU player who would not enter the NFL draft because he would not play on Sunday. Many applauded his decision in this matter. GA’s spoke of it in Conference talks.

Then I read this article this morning.…

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705395940/Mormon-NFL-player-rides-Broncos-momentum.html

Where do you stand on this issue.

[blueadept]

Where do you stand on this issue.

That there needs to be unity within the household on this issue.

People can fall into several categories

(1) Extremely strick

(2) As long as church was the most important thing on Sunday, a minor observance of sports is all right.

(3) If you have something different happening (occasion), Sunday rules are relaxed. (If you travel on Sunday, all right to eat out, Super Bowl Sunday, etc)

(4) Not important issue

My wife fell into category 1 and I fell into category 2. I could spend 8 hrs at church activities and be chastised for catching football scores and not being an example for our mixed-faith children. As a result, I learned to hate Sundays after doing my church activities.

[altersteve]

What you should do on Sunday (and every other day): follow the Spirit.

If the Spirit tells you it's okay to watch a game with the family, then do it. If He tells you to spend some time with your best friend who you haven't seen in years, then do it. If He tells you to stay home and just read the scriptures all day, then do it. Simple as that. As for working, I have a job at a movie theater and often have to work Sunday afternoons and evenings, and as one who really needs money right now, I'm not quitting my job. And I'm confident that God will understand and be pleased with my reasons for this decision.

Edited December 19, 2011 by altersteve

[LeSellers]

What you should do on Sunday (and every other day): follow the Spirit.

If the Spirit tells you it's okay to watch a game with the family, then do it.

Such a scenario is so remote as to approach zero.

The Spirit will simply not say watch a football game on the Sabbath because there is no possibility of a football game's improving one's spirituality, Tim Tebow notwithstanding.

Lehi

[krose]

I would say you have adequate cover to do whatever activities you feel comfortable doing on Sunday, for the following reasons:

1. LDS professional entertainers (athletes, singers, actors, etc.) regularly perform for money on Sunday without being reprimanded, or even criticized from the pulpit. In fact, they land well-attended fireside speaking gigs for years afterward (Steve Young, Ty Detmer, Danny Ainge, for example).

2. Some Church-owned businesses operate on Sunday. The Deseret News is printed and distributed. KSL radio and TV don't go dark that day, and their employees are there doing their non-emergency jobs, whether maintaining equipment or broadcasting the 10:00 news, weather and extended sports.

* 3. There is no scriptural basis for not working, playing, or shopping on Sunday. The Old Testament lists of prohibited activities, including the 4th commandment, all refer to the Hebrew Sabbath, which was from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, NOT Sunday at all. All you have to go on is the words of modern-day leaders, and we never really know when they are speaking as men without a "thus saith the Lord" attached. It may be little more than "advice," like telling you what you should be wearing to meetings, how many ear holes are allowed, or whether to grow facial hair (and from the past, things like telling women not to work, and condemning birth control and caffeine). You know, advice that is routinely ignored with no serious consequences, such as denying temple entry.

So if you feel okay internally (and I don't see a good reason not to, based on the above points) with working a shift at the plant, running to the Piggly Wiggly to get some chips and salsa, taking a walk in the woods or a dip in the surf, playing a game of softball, or watching football or ice dancing on a Sunday, why not? It appears to be a personal decision.

* Edit: As pointed out by bluebell, I was only thinking of ancient scripture.

Edited December 19, 2011 by krose

[bluebell]

Such a scenario is so remote as to approach zero.

The Spirit will simply not say watch a football game on the Sabbath because there is no possibility of a football game's improving one's spirituality, Tim Tebow notwithstanding.

Lehi

There's no way a nap is going to improve one's spirituality but we know that those are allowed anyway.

[LeSellers]

There's no way a nap is going to improve one's spirituality but we know that those are allowed anyway.

The word "Sabbath" means "rest". It does not mean "football".

Lehi

[bluebell]

I would say you have adequate cover to do whatever activities you feel comfortable doing on Sunday, for the following reasons:

1. LDS professional entertainers (athletes, singers, actors, etc.) regularly perform for money on Sunday without being reprimanded, or even criticized from the pulpit. In fact, they land well-attended fireside speaking gigs for years afterward (Steve Young, Ty Detmer, Danny Ainge, for example).

2. Some Church-owned businesses operate on Sunday. The Deseret News is printed and distributed. KSL radio and TV don't go dark that day, and their employees are there doing their non-emergency jobs, whether maintaining equipment or broadcasting the 10:00 news, weather and extended sports.

3. There is no scriptural basis for not working, playing, or shopping on Sunday. The Old Testament lists of prohibited activities, including the 4th commandment, all refer to the Hebrew Sabbath, which was from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, NOT Sunday at all. All you have to go on is the words of modern-day leaders, and we never really know when they are speaking as men without a "thus saith the Lord" attached. It may be little more than "advice," like telling you what you should be wearing to meetings, how many ear holes are allowed, or whether to grow facial hair (and from the past, things like telling women not to work, and condemning birth control and caffeine). You know, advice that is routinely ignored with no serious consequences, such as denying temple entry.

So if you feel okay internally (and I don't see a good reason not to, based on the above points) with working a shift at the plant, running to the Piggly Wiggly to get some chips and salsa, taking a walk in the woods or a dip in the surf, playing a game of softball, or watching football or ice dancing on a Sunday, why not? It appears to be a personal decision.

I think you've forgotten to take into account the scriptures on sabbath day observance from the D&C.

29 And the inhabitants of Zion shall also observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;

10 For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;

11 Nevertheless thy vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times;

12 But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

13 And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.

[bluebell]

The word "Sabbath" means "rest". It does not mean "football".

Lehi

Sabbath doesn't mean 'wear yourself out serving those in the church that day' either but that's allowed.

[volgadon]

In fact, they land well-attended fireside speaking gigs for years afterward (Steve Young, Ty Detmer, Danny Ainge, for example).

So much so that I have heard of none of these individuals.

[krose]

I think you've forgotten to take into account the scriptures on sabbath day observance from the D&C.

29 And the inhabitants of Zion shall also observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;

10 For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;

11 Nevertheless thy vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times;

12 But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

13 And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.

To quote a certain southern governor, "Oops. Sorry." It appears the decades it's been since reading the D&C have ruined my third point. Now what was that third point again? EPA?

But I must say, that makes my first two points all the more puzzling, does it not? And I still don't quite understand how Sunday is called "Sabbath."

[krose]

So much so that I have heard of none of these individuals.

How can you call yourself a Mormon if you don't know three of the greatest BYU athletes of all time?

Shame, shame on you.

[volgadon]

How can you call yourself a Mormon if you don't know three of the greatest BYU athletes of all time?

Shame, shame on you.

They were athletes? For some reason I was thinking singers. It really must be outer darkness for me.

[LeSellers]

Sabbath doesn't mean 'wear yourself out serving those in the church that day' either but that's allowed.

I disagree. To "wear yourself out serving those in the church that day" is spiritually improving; and that's the point of the Sabbath, including the Law of the Sabbath.

There is no uplifting of the spirit in a football area, nor in front of the television screen painting scenes from a football field.

Lehi

Edited December 19, 2011 by LeSellers

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

So much so that I have heard of none of these individuals.

I have heard them all...and Dale Murphy.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

How can you call yourself a Mormon if you don't know three of the greatest BYU athletes of all time?

Shame, shame on you.

Unforgivable...

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

What you should do on Sunday (and every other day): follow the Spirit.

If the Spirit tells you it's okay to watch a game with the family, then do it. If He tells you to spend some time with your best friend who you haven't seen in years, then do it. If He tells you to stay home and just read the scriptures all day, then do it. Simple as that. As for working, I have a job at a movie theater and often have to work Sunday afternoons and evenings, and as one who really needs money right now, I'm not quitting my job. And I'm confident that God will understand and be pleased with my reasons for this decision.

BTW...I remained neutral in my thread. So I am not passing judgment.

[Bob Crockett]

I'd comment but then I routinely work on Sunday.

[bluebell]

I disagree. "wearing yourself out serving those in the church that day" is spiritually improving; and that''s the point of the Sabbath, including the Law of the Sabbath.

There is no uplifting of the spirit in a football area, nor in front of the television screen painting scenes from a football field.

Lehi

I was replying to the post where you said that the definition of the sabbath was to rest, as if the definition implied what was appropriate and what was not.

And there can be much uplifting in certain programs--even football--if they are watched with family. And t.v. watching, including football, can also obviously be detrimental. Just like serving in the church on every sunday at the expense of your family can be likewise. I think altersteve's point was that because only the Spirit knows the ins and outs of every situation, He is the best person to consult in regards to sabbath day activities.

[Sine Saw Square]

I recall, as a boy, going over to my late grandparents house what seemed like every Sunday. My grandfather was not a talkative man. After dinner he, my brothers, me and my dad would sit in his small TV room and watch Star Trek re-runs or "Nature" on PBS. We'd comment on the shows which served as icebreakers, something to discuss. It became sort of a family tradition. We didn't spend all day watching what ever came on the screen either. Looking back today it still conjures up warm memories of my Grandfather and sharing something that he enjoyed. Was Star Trek spiritual? No- but I'd not trade those memories for anything.

Today I don't even have TV broadcasting in our house, but I'll often rent a nature show, sit down with the family, and watch it on a Sunday evening to evoke that memory and cary on the tradition.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Sine Saw Square

[Matthew J. Tandy]

I happen to know first-hand that a certain President of the First Quorum of the Seventies routinely watches Sunday football when he gets a moment. Because he travels so much serving the members across the globe, Sunday is one of the few days he occasionally gets some extra time. He likes footballs, and so do his sons. It's a family activity for them.

[cinepro]

In a recent Stake Conference, the visiting GA shared a great story about his family deciding to not watch TV on Sundays. He got home from a Church meeting and was changing his clothes in the bedroom and decided he needed to turn on the TV just to check the score on a big sporting event. After only a few seconds, and even with the volume turned down, his youngest daughter busted him (and loudly announced his transgression to the entire family).

It's always interesting to see the different attitudes people have towards "keeping the Sabbath day holy". It seems everyone finds a natural comfort zone and sticks with it.

The most interesting is when people get married and find out they have drastically different attitudes. My wife and I were pretty close (and I knew her for a long time before we got married so I knew we had similar ideas about what was ok on Sundays), but I've known couples that had a much harder time adjusting, especially if one of them was a convert.

[rodheadlee]

Such a scenario is so remote as to approach zero.

The Spirit will simply not say watch a football game on the Sabbath because there is no possibility of a football game's improving one's spirituality, Tim Tebow notwithstanding.

Lehi

That's not true Lehi. If you go to a friend's house who does not belong to the church and a discussion breaks out about the Church the spirit can be present.

[LeSellers]

That's not true Lehi. If you go to a friend's house who does not belong to the church and a discussion breaks out about the Church the spirit can be present.

The question remains unanswered: how often is that likely to happen while watching a football game?

I suspect it won't be during the half time program with the cheerleaders and their modest dress. Nor would one exppect it during the beer commercials.

Perhaps we'd see it when the QB gets sacked for a twenty yard loss and the helmet cam records his profanity for the children in the audience?

If there is a spiritual value to professional football (or hockey or baseball or basketball), it has not manifested itself in my presence

Lehi

[rodheadlee]

The question remains unanswered: how often is that likely to happen while watching a football game?

I suspect it won't be during the half time program with the cheerleaders and their modest dress. Nor would one exppect it during the beer commercials.

Perhaps we'd see it when the QB gets sacked for a twenty yard loss and the helmet cam records his profanity for the children in the audience?

If there is a spiritual value to professional football (or hockey or baseball or basketball), it has not manifested itself in my presence

Lehi

It may be unusual but all my friends are unusual. We use the mute button for half time and the commercials. You prolly are correct for the most part.

Edited December 20, 2011 by rodheadlee