Time To Talk Football, Baseball And Basketball, On Sunday.

[LeSellers]

This statement of your's-"The talents God gave Tebow are not "to play QB at the highest level in the world"."-seems to be saying exactly that.

But that's not what I said because I specifically showed that "playing professional football" is not a talent, it's the application of talents. Talents are hand-eye coordination, quick reflexes, etc. One may have all of the talents of a great professional quarterback and decide, instead, to be a orthopedic surgeon or a concert cellist. If so, he has not wasted those God-given talents; but he has used them differently from Tebow.

I have no idea if my interpretation of LDST's post was correct anyway, but if it was, it's not really 'tilting at windmills' that he would understand you in that way. We all sometimes say things in a way that legitimately sounds like we meant something else when we didn't.

He is fighting an imaginary enemy if he believes that I said what you think he may have imagined, assuming he read the whole statement rather than the clip you focused on.

Lehi

[JDave]

Lehi,

You are a good person. God loves you.

[LeSellers]

Lehi,

You are a good person. God loves you.

I am blessed, since it seems He's (number) One of a very few, 'round here, at least.

Lehi

Edited December 22, 2011 by LeSellers

[blueadept]

This seems to minimize the message and open this great verse to more ridicule.

That would be the wrong understanding of the NFL stance then. It's obviously not part of the standard NFL uniform and showing individuality of this nature is discouraged as dictated by Roger Godett the NFL commissioner. College football is more relaxed on issues of this nature.

[JDave]

I am blessed, since it seems He's (number) One of a very few, 'round here, at least.

Lehi, you are a good person regardless of whether or not you watch sports on Sunday, and regardless of whether you make inflammatory statements or not. But it would be a lot easier for others to see that you are a good person if you toned it down a bit. Your statement reads, to me, like anyone who watches sports on Sunday is breaking the 1st Commandment. Other than anecdotal evidence that sports don't enhance spirituality, I don't see anything able to support such a view.

I have no interest in sports and most often the Super Bowl, World Cup, World Series, etc. pass by unnoticed unless I see a news headline saying who won. So I don't get anything out of it, spiritually or otherwise. In fact I can't quite fathom what others do get out of it. Yet it would be invalid and unwise for me to use my experience as a measuring stick for other people's lives.

It sounds like you have a good handle on what Sabbath activities work well for you in your efforts to keep the day holy. Kudos.

Edited December 23, 2011 by JDave

[LDSToronto]

But that's not what I said because I specifically showed that "playing professional football" is not a talent, it's the application of talents. Talents are hand-eye coordination, quick reflexes, etc. One may have all of the talents of a great professional quarterback and decide, instead, to be a orthopedic surgeon or a concert cellist. If so, he has not wasted those God-given talents; but he has used them differently from Tebow.

You are making a definitive statement of fact here, that playing professional football is not a talent given by God, nor can it even be considered a talent, period. And you are stating it is not a talent given by God. I think you are offering opinion masked as fact.

My statement is simple: You can not possibly know what talent God gave Tim Tebow, nor can you possibly know if Tim Tebow was given that talent to play football for a specific purpose that God has.

H.

[Peppermint Patty]

Is it Okay for LDS to care about football? The scriptures and our Prophets' teachings appears silent on the issue of football.

Do you think one day we will be held accountable for every dollar that we spent on football and our time we spent watching it? There are some terrible things going on in the world and communties— the sorts of things we as LDS are supposed to be standing up against. How many times have you heard that nearly 50% the world’s population lives on less than $2 a day? To put it into perspective, that less than my spent on season tickets this season.

Will we get a pass on this at Judgment Day? Will Jesus say, “You spent more money on football in a year than billions of my children lived on in one year, but I understand, those games sure were exciting, well done, my good and faithful servant.”

P.S. I might feel differently if BYU actually made into a BCS Conference.

Let the fireworks begin in 3..........2...........1...........

Edited December 23, 2011 by Peppermint Patty

[LeSellers]

My statement is simple: You can not possibly know what talent God gave Tim Tebow, nor can you possibly know if Tim Tebow was given that talent to play football for a specific purpose that God has.

Since I did not claim to know any of this, I wonder why you are making such a big point of it.

What I said was that no one can say, based on the talents Tebow has received from God, that God approved of football, and especially that He approved of football played on His Sabbath.

I do dispute that "playing football" (at the highest or any level) is a "talent". I am convinced that talents are the things that make us good at things, but not those things themselves.

There is no doubt that Tebow is fast, strong, quick-reacting, a leader of men, and has excellent hand-eye coordination. But those are not "playing football". He has applied those talents to "playing football", but he could have just as easily (although perhaps not as well paid) chosen to use them in other ways. I listed several alternatives in previous messages. You seem to believe me wrong, but you have not shown any evidence for your attack.

Lehi

Edited December 23, 2011 by LeSellers

[LDSToronto]

Since I did not claim to know any of this, I wonder why you are making such a big point of it.

What I said was that no one can say, based on the talents Tebow has received from God, that God approbved of football, and especially that He approved of football played on His Sabbath.

I do dispute that "playing football" (at the highest or any level) is a "talent"> I am convinced that talents are the things that make us good at things, but not those things themselves.

There is no doubt that Tebow is fast, strong, quick-reacting, a leader of men, and has excellent hand-eye coordination. But those are not "playing football". He has applied those talents to "playing football", but he could have just as easily (although perhaps not as well paid). I listed several alternatives in previous messages.

OK, thank you for clearing that up - it's all I was asking for.

You seem to believe me wrong, but you have not shown any evidence for your attack.

I disagree with you, but ease up a bit - I wasn't attacking you.

H.

[orion88]

Gospel Principles says, in chapter 24, "Our prophets have told us that we should not shop,

hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on that day."

Which prophets have said so and when?

Does this include watching television or movies at theatres?

If you have a GA or elder/bishop telling you to go against the words of the LDS prophets, then

the seeds of apostasy are alive and well in your ward.

[volgadon]

If you have a GA or elder/bishop telling you to go against the words of the LDS prophets, then

the seeds of apostasy are alive and well in your ward.

And we should listen to you on this?

[rpn]

There is a good reason why the church stripped the"acceptable sunday activities list, from the manuals several years ago (though I noted that one exists in the latest version of the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet). Those lists left a lot of people judging others for their sabbath day choices, much like the NT pharisees. None of us can know how a member determines that the profession they choose, which requires Sunday work, is consistent with the Lord's will for them: we should assume they have. None of us knows whether the person leaving the grocery store on Sunday is filling the pantry of someone who is too sick to have shopped the day before and without food to last until tomorrow. None of us knows whether the competitive basketball game being played in the neighbor's side yard is helping the young people work of energy so they can be reverent in their meetings, or fellowshipping a neighbor, or simply a parent acknowledging a child's agency.

It is true that I cannot imagine a world in which 3 or even 1 hour of sports is appropriate, but then others cannot imagine a world where an hour on MADB would be either.

[Mike Reed]

Yeah... I think it is time to talk football and basketball. How about those 49ers, eh? Smith QBin'g, doing a stellar job. And Jimmer on the Sacramento Kings, playing the point. Let's Go NOR CAL! Time for the Mormons/BYU fans to get on the bandwagon.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Yeah... I think it is time to talk football and basketball. How about those 49ers, eh? Smith QBin'g, doing a stellar job. And Jimmer on the Sacramento Kings, playing the point. Let's Go NOR CAL! Time for the Mormons/BYU fans to get on the bandwagon.

I did not know they had sports West of the Mississippi.

[Stargazer]

Gospel Principles says, in chapter 24, "Our prophets have told us that we should not shop,

hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on that day."

Which prophets have said so and when?

Does this include watching television or movies at theatres?

If you have a GA or elder/bishop telling you to go against the words of the LDS prophets, then

the seeds of apostasy are alive and well in your ward.

Well, here am I wondering if "should not" is a "shalt not".

I avoid shopping on Sunday. But sometimes my ox falls into the mire and I have to retrieve him.

As it happens, I have no need to hunt or fish on Sunday, since I generally buy my meat in the store, and in any case I avoid shopping on Sunday.

I have never attended a sporting event on Sunday, nor is there a need to, since my TV works 7 days a week.

Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. I have worked in occupations requiring me to labor on the Sabbath. I have had urgent situations that required me to purchase things on the Sabbath. What is it about watching TV that might make doing so a Sabbath violation? One does not labor to watch TV, in fact one labors harder to go to Church on Sunday than one does to plop down in the couch in one's pajamas on General Conference Sunday and watch over the Internet.

Here's one thing that has been annoying me: if you deliberately and with knowledge beforehand accept a job that is known to require labor on Sabbath, can you with right make an issue out of the fact that your employer requires you to work on Sunday? Can a Latter-day Saint police officer reasonably require that his employer excuse him from working on the Sabbath and require only Gentiles work on that day? Can a LDS electrical engineer who is employed at a power production facility reasonably require that his employer excuse him from maintaining the generators at the dam on the Sabbath and require only atheist engineers work on that day? If not, then how can a LDS professional football player refuse to play games on the Sabbath?

[BCSpace]

It is true that I cannot imagine a world in which 3 or even 1 hour of sports is appropriate, but then others cannot imagine a world where an hour on MADB would be either.

Alas! I am a true Sabbath breaker no matter which way I turn.