Time To Talk Football, Baseball And Basketball, On Sunday.

[blueadept]

It may be unusual but all my friends are unusual. We use the mute button for half time and the commercials. You prolly are correct for the most part.

Watching football with the volume off was a compromise...

[LDSToronto]

I disagree. To "wear yourself out serving those in the church that day" is spiritually improving; and that's the point of the Sabbath, including the Law of the Sabbath.

There is no uplifting of the spirit in a football area, nor in front of the television screen painting scenes from a football field.

Lehi

Is that true for every person?

H.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

Look the real problem is this: Football, basketball, and baseball do not invite the right spirit, therefore, are not good for the Sabbath.

Soccer, Rugby, and Aussie Rules football however are godly sports played in heaven and are suitable for any occasion.

[LeSellers]

Is that true for every person?

I'd have a hard time accepting another position. If there is anyone who finds a truly uplifting spiritual experence watching or playing football, it would be a surprise as well as being startling. And that's whether it's Sunday or not.

Lehi

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Look the real problem is this: Football, basketball, and baseball do not invite the right spirit, therefore, are not good for the Sabbath.

Soccer, Rugby, and Aussie Rules football however are godly sports played in heaven and are suitable for any occasion.

Don't forget UGA football...go dawgs!

[cinepro]

BYU Professor Craig Harline wrote a great book about the history of the Sabbath, and this review at Times and Seasons has some interesting observations:

Sunday

Last Sunday, in church, the bishop’s sister told us that her little boys were so excited because they were looking forward to the swimming party in the afternoon. The bishop’s own family and the families of his siblings were going to enjoy a pleasurable family Sunday afternoon: togetherness, games, swimming, fun and food, and it would probably last until late in the evening.

A few Sundays before, at the end of the meeting block, as I still had something else to attend to, my wife asked brother and sister M. if she could get a ride home with them. The M’s live in our neighborhood, about six miles from the chapel.

"Of course, they said. We just need to make a little detour."

The detour turned out to be a ten mile extra trip, to a specific baker, where the M’s got their Sunday pastries.

"We’ve been going to this one for twenty years. For us, he is the best."

Belgian bakers, indeed, whose refined, fragrant shops can be found in every neighborhood, each have their reputation. Sunday is their peak day, when from 7 AM on customers form lines in the street. For nothing equals the freshly baked delicacies to enjoy on Sunday, when a typical Belgian family gathers around a festive table at home.

"We’ve got children and grandchildren coming over this afternoon", added brother M., to explain the quantity bought.

While we all acknowledge the influence our culture can have on our understanding of doctrines such as chastity and the sabbath, I suspect many of us would be surprised at just how many of our beliefs about what is right and wrong on a Sunday come from tradition other non-revelatory sources.

Edited December 20, 2011 by cinepro

[LDSToronto]

I'd have a hard time accepting another position. If there is anyone who finds a truly uplifting spiritual experence watching or playing football, it would be a surprise as well as being startling. And that's whether it's Sunday or not.

Lehi

Tim Tebow seems to have genuine religious feelings concerning playing football.

H.

[LeSellers]

Tim Tebow seems to have genuine religious feelings concerning playing football.

Tebow may be confused, or you may be.

As I see the Tebow phenomenon, he's just grateful for his talents. That he's chosen to use them in football is not necessarily an indicator that God approves of football and especially on the Sabbath.

Lehi

Edited December 21, 2011 by LeSellers

[blueadept]

In regards to professional football, it's easier to observe the Sabbath if one does not have an interest in the sport especially if you have LDS ties. Now that my father, brother and I (none of us LDS) live in different states, keeping up with the status of our favorite NFL team seems to be the only subject that keeps us closely bonded unfortunately. They're not as passionate about church stuff as I am and I'm not as passionate about their hunting and fishing stuff as they are but we share a love for watching our NFL team. When that is your 'safe' topic you talk about with your close family members that you grew up with, it's not easy to simply disregard those family ties.

Lehi, you do mimic my LDS wife's thoughts about the subject though. Compromise never seemed to be an option on this subject.

Edited December 21, 2011 by blueadept

[LeSellers]

Compromise never seemed to be an option on this subject.

It's a matter of values. I am not interested in compromising something that will affect eternal life. If others are, so be it.

Lehi

[blueadept]

It's a matter of values. I am not interested in compromising something that will affect eternal life. If others are, so be it.

Lehi

My wife is in agreement with you and was something she felt that shouldn't be compromised.

I feel the same in regards to honoring my wedding vows between HF, her and myself regardless of her choice for a civil divorce. Like you said, I'm not interested in compromising something that will affect eternal life. To each their own, so be it.

[bluebell]

It's a matter of values. I am not interested in compromising something that will affect eternal life. If others are, so be it.

Lehi

I would guess that no Christian on this board is interested in comprising something that will affect eternal life.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I would guess that no Christian on this board is interested in comprising something that will affect eternal life.

agreed.

[LDSToronto]

Tebow may be confused, or you may be.

As I see the Tebow phenomenon, he's just grateful for his talents. That he's chosen to use them in football is not necessarily an indicator that God approves of football and especially on the Sabbath.

Lehi

Well, I am confused - by your comment. If it is possible that God gave Tim Tebow a unique and specific gift - the ability to play QB at the highest level in the world, would God have Tim Tebow just waste that talent?

Or, does God not give these types of talents to human beings?

Another interesting angle - when Tim Tebow paints John 3:16 under his eyes during the BCS Championship Game in 2009, google counted 92 million searches for that specific bible verse. Perhaps God is using Tim Tebow as a tool to reach millions of football fans who would normally not even think of God.

H.

[LeSellers]

Well, I am confused - by your comment. If it is possible that God gave Tim Tebow a unique and specific gift - the ability to play QB at the highest level in the world, would God have Tim Tebow just waste that talent?

Or, does God not give these types of talents to human beings?

The talents God gave Tebow are not "to play QB at the highest level in the world". The talents God gave him can be used, and Tebow is using them, "to play QB at the highest level in the world", but they could equally well be used to be a great platoon leader in the Army, to be a fabulous neurosurgeon, or any of a myriad of other manifestations.

The talents, excellent hand-eye coordination, astounding reflexes, leadership, snap decision making, and so on, are transferable. That he has chosen to use them in football (a complete waste in terms of eternal values), is not God's gift. They are not the highest and best use in a celestial economy, although they may very well be in a terrestrial/telestial one. I do not accuse Tebow of wasting the talents God gave him when he plays football. I'm just saying that the outcome is not a spiritual one, people's looking up John 3:16 notwithstanding.

Which, by the way, says nothing about what they did after searching the verse on Google. Further, the NFL forbids his doing that, so whatever value there was in his message two years ago no longer accrues today.

And you have confused me with this:

when Tim Tebow pain...

What cold that possibly mean?

Lehi

[Wants2know]

I disagree. To "wear yourself out serving those in the church that day" is spiritually improving; and that's the point of the Sabbath, including the Law of the Sabbath.

There is no uplifting of the spirit in a football area, nor in front of the television screen painting scenes from a football field.

Lehi

Lehi, that may be your experience, others may have one completely different. In our family, my husband has been quite vocal about how his mother's strictness about the sabbath did more harm than good for their family, and his relationship with the church. It created resentment and angry feelings. That doesn't seem to be the spirit of the sabbath to me. We feel like church comes first on Sunday, everything else second and "everything else" with a family focus. As long as we have our priorities in order we have felt good about our choices, so far anyway. We regularly participate in the kids' sports activities as a family. Visit with friends. Grocery shop. Watch sports. Have the missionaries over. Cook. Take naps. Read. So far, I haven't felt the least bit bad about any of those. I don't understand someone who feels badly about taking out the garbage on Sunday. And I don't think any of my activities have been done without the spirit of the Sabbath in attendance either. I am more focused on avoiding work and attending to those issues prior to Sunday, as is my husband. It works for us. I have sought counsel on here and by others about this, and so far, no one has told me these activities are a sin. That's not to say sometimes things come up and we have to deal with them, particularly with my job. Would the savior have turned away from his responsibilities because it was Sunday? I think not.

[blueadept]

Lehi, that may be your experience, others may have one completely different. In our family, my husband has been quite vocal about how his mother's strictness about the sabbath did more harm than good for their family, and his relationship with the church. It created resentment and angry feelings. That doesn't seem to be the spirit of the sabbath to me. We feel like church comes first on Sunday, everything else second and "everything else" with a family focus. As long as we have our priorities in order we have felt good about our choices, so far anyway. We regularly participate in the kids' sports activities as a family. Visit with friends. Grocery shop. Watch sports. Have the missionaries over. Cook. Take naps. Read. So far, I haven't felt the least bit bad about any of those. I don't understand someone who feels badly about taking out the garbage on Sunday. And I don't think any of my activities have been done without the spirit of the Sabbath in attendance either. I am more focused on avoiding work and attending to those issues prior to Sunday, as is my husband. It works for us. I have sought counsel on here and by others about this, and so far, no one has told me these activities are a sin. That's not to say sometimes things come up and we have to deal with them, particularly with my job. Would the savior have turned away from his responsibilities because it was Sunday? I think not.

Merry Christmas W2K,

Your attitude in regards to this mimicks my own in that if the most important thing was HF on the Sabbath, it's all good. I will never understand the strickness that Lehi and others take the issue though if it's detrimental to the family dynamics. The Catholic portion of the family ENJOYED going to church on Sunday and doing church activities. We shouldn't have to hate the day but enjoy going to church.

[LDSToronto]

The talents God gave Tebow are not "to play QB at the highest level in the world". The talents God gave him can be used, and Tebow is using them, "to play QB at the highest level in the world", but they could equally well be used to be a great platoon leader in the Army, to be a fabulous neurosurgeon, or any of a myriad of other manifestations.

There is no way that you could possibly know this.

Which, by the way, says nothing about what they did after searching the verse on Google.

But isn't this the same message the LDS church gives it's members? Plant the seed and see what happens? One person reaching 92 million souls is a lot of seed planting.

And you have confused me with this:

when Tim Tebow pain...

What cold that possibly mean?

You cut the quote off - I said, "when Tim Tebow paints John 3:16 under his eyes" like in the picture below:

[LeSellers]

There is no way that you could possibly know [that the talents used for football could be used in other pursuits].

I suggest that everyone knows this.

Athletic skills and talents are easily transferable to other activities.

But isn't this the same message the LDS church gives it's members? Plant the seed and see what happens? One person reaching 92 million souls is a lot of seed planting.

It is, but he doesn't do that any more in any case, and, as I said, the seed of which you speak is not the mustard (the greatest of trees).

College football is not typically played on Sundays. Professional football is nearly universally played on the Sabbath.

You cut the quote off - I said, "when Tim Tebow paints John 3:16 under his eyes" like in the picture below:

No, I didn't. When I read it, it said just what I quoted. I'll chalk it up to a browser glitch.

Lehi

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

You cut the quote off - I said, "when Tim Tebow paints John 3:16 under his eyes" like in the picture below:

Is this picture for real?!

[blueadept]

Is this picture for real?!

It's a picture from his college days at Florida. Players are fined in the NFL for messages like this.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

It's a picture from his college days at Florida. Players are fined in the NFL for messages like this.

This seems to minimize the message and open this great verse to more ridicule.

[bluebell]

I suggest that everyone knows this.

Athletic skills and talents are easily transferable to other activities.

Perhaps what LDSToronto meant was that there's no way you could know that God did not want Tebow to use his athelitic talents to play professional sports.

[LeSellers]

Perhaps what LDSToronto meant was that there's no way you could know that God did not want Tebow to use his athelitic talents to play professional sports.

If so, he's tilting at windmills, because I never said, nor hinted, He did not.

What I said was that just because God gave Tebow his talents was not an indicator that He sanctioned either football or playing it on Sunday. People tend to think that because someone is good at doing Xxxx, that God made him for doing Xxxx. That's just not the case, for, as I explained, although Xxxx requires certain talents, those talents are transferable to Yyyy, Zzzz, and other activities, as well.

Lehi

[bluebell]

If so, he's tilting at windmills, because I never said, nor hinted, He did not.

This statement of your's-"The talents God gave Tebow are not "to play QB at the highest level in the world"."-seems to be saying exactly that.

I have no idea if my interpretation of LDST's post was correct anyway, but if it was, it's not really 'tilting at windmills' that he would understand you in that way. We all sometimes say things in a way that legitimately sounds like we meant something else when we didn't.