Anakin7 Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Recently while waiting for my wife to get off work I visited a non LDS Christian Church [sheperd Of The Hills] located in Porter Ranch Ca. While walking around one of the buildings there I picked up a Brocure entitled - My Faith Now.com, and it was an Religion Comparison Chart on Christianity/Mormonism/Islam/Judaism. It gave explanations of these religions concerning there belief system on various topics - Key Person/Key Writtings/Who is God ?/Who is Jesus ?/Who is the Holy Spirit ? /Salvation/Afterlife. And to my amazement again I saw written on the salvation topic relating to Mormonism - " Saved by Works, including faithfulness to church leaders,Mormon baptism,tithing, ordination,marriage, and secret temple rituals. No eternal life without Mormon membership". Why do they never mention our True Belief and True Faith regarding True Salvation and True Grace ?. Any observations ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHT Edited December 15, 2011 by Anakin7
KevinG Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 It reflects the poor quality of "Mormonism" research.Is there an address on the pamphlet where you could send them a note on our belief in Christ's atonement and our salvation?
Anakin7 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Posted December 15, 2011 I will be visiting there a few more times so I plan to give them material on our True Doctrine of Grace/Labors of Love/Salvation. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHT
KevinG Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Leave a few copies of the Book of Mormon scattered around with 2 Nephi 25:23 bookmarked.
Nevo Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 It reflects the poor quality of "Mormonism" research.Okay, but it's basically true that we are saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, which includes "faithfulness to church leaders, Mormon baptism, tithing, ordination, marriage, and secret temple rituals."Baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the endowment, and temple marriage are called "saving ordinances" because they are prerequisites for eternal life.
KevinG Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Okay, but it's basically true that we are saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, which includes "faithfulness to church leaders, Mormon baptism, tithing, ordination, marriage, and secret temple rituals."Baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the endowment, and temple marriage are called "saving ordinances" because they are prerequisites for eternal life.Christ's atonement saves us.Our obedience to ordinances and doctrines bring us unto Christ, help us to remember Him, help us to take His name upon us, help us to know Him... This saved by works and ordinances nonsense is a horrible misreading of our own doctrine. 1
ksfisher Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 That we believe we are saved by the atonement of Christ should be clear to anyone who tries to understand the gospel and the church. What obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel does is make us into the kind of people who can more fully participate in Christ's atonement.
mfbukowski Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) The whole problem is that we have various definitions for being "saved", whereas for Creedal Christians there is one definition only."Saved from death" is a free gift to all- we will all be resurrected, and all will be immortal"Saved in paradise" I suppose means all who believe in Christ- including of course non-members. Keep in mind "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ"- eventually. So what does that have to do with "salvation"?Being "saved" in the telestial kingdom or terestrial- see section 76Being "saved" to "eternal life" = exaltation.So what meaning of "saved" are we talking about?? Edited December 15, 2011 by mfbukowski
Nevo Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 This saved by works and ordinances nonsense is a horrible misreading of our own doctrine."We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." It seems to me that both grace and "works" are in view here.
KevinG Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." It seems to me that both grace and "works" are in view here.Obedience to Christ and faith in Christ are not an "either or" proposition. What that pamphlet did was to tell a part of the story while negating the most important fact. Mormons base their salvation in Christ.
Duncan Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Recently while waiting for my wife to get off work I visited a non LDS Christian Church [sheperd Of The Hills] located in Porter Ranch Ca. While walking around one of the buildings there I picked up a Brocure entitled - My Faith Now.com, and it was an Religion Comparison Chart on Christianity/Mormonism/Islam/Judaism. It gave explanations of these religions concerning there belief system on various topics - Key Person/Key Writtings/Who is God ?/Who is Jesus ?/Who is the Holy Spirit ? /Salvation/Afterlife. And to my amazement again I saw written on the salvation topic relating to Mormonism - " Saved by Works, including faithfulness to church leaders,Mormon baptism,tithing, ordination,marriage, and secret temple rituals. No eternal life without Mormon membership". Why do they never mention our True Belief and True Faith regarding True Salvation and True Grace ?. Any observations ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHTwhen in the hannah heaven's did you get married? Would I have known her? as you recall I served as a missionary in your area and you came over many times to our pad and we chilled!
LeSellers Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Why do they never mention our True Belief and True Faith regarding True Salvation and True Grace ?. Any observations ?.Because they're not about truth, they're about keeping their flocks intact and the collection plate.It's called "poisoning the well".We're sheep stealers, doncha know? Distortions make it less likely that any of their parishioners will stray into an LDS baptismal font.Lehi 2
Vance Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 The whole problem is that we have various definitions for being "saved", whereas for Creedal Christians there is one definition only."Saved from death" is a free gift to all- we will all be resurrected, and all will be immortal"Saved in paradise" I suppose means all who believe in Christ- including of course non-members. Keep in mind "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ"- eventually. So what does that have to do with "salvation"?Being "saved" in the telestial kingdom or terestrial- see section 76Being "saved" to "eternal life" = exaltation.So what meaning of "saved" are we talking about??Even the Bible doesn't us "save/saved" consistently. But they won't acknowledge it because, as Lehi says above, it isn't about the truth.
bluebell Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Okay, but it's basically true that we are saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, which includes "faithfulness to church leaders, Mormon baptism, tithing, ordination, marriage, and secret temple rituals."Baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the endowment, and temple marriage are called "saving ordinances" because they are prerequisites for eternal life.We are saved through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Having faith in Christ, baptism, and confirmation are how we gain access to that saving grace. Trying to be obedient to His commandments and repenting when we mess up is how we maintain the covenant relationship we have with Christ, thus maintaining our salvation. 1
altersteve Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Critics don't seem to understand what "after all we can do" means.
Nevo Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Having faith in Christ, baptism, and confirmation are how we gain access to that saving grace.Right. It follows, then, that we are not saved unless we obey "the laws and ordinances of the gospel." Grace alone is not sufficient. 2
Duncan Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Right. It follows, then, that we are not saved unless we obey "the laws and ordinances of the gospel." Grace alone is not sufficient.is that another way of saying that we are saved because we have entered into covenants with Christ and to show we are saved we have faith, repent, renew our covenants at baptism, follow the spirit and endure to the end. The question then becomes do I continue to want to be saved and not do I want to be saved
Anakin7 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Posted December 16, 2011 when in the hannah heaven's did you get married? Would I have known her? as you recall I served as a missionary in your area and you came over many times to our pad and we chilled! Last March 25 of this year my padawan. What was your last name after "Elder" on your name tag ?. What street was the "pad" on ?. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHT
Anakin7 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Posted December 16, 2011 Okay, but it's basically true that we are saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, which includes "faithfulness to church leaders, Mormon baptism, tithing, ordination, marriage, and secret temple rituals."Baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the endowment, and temple marriage are called "saving ordinances" because they are prerequisites for eternal life. And they are connected with the Atonement of Jesus Christ, Amen
Anakin7 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Posted December 16, 2011 That we believe we are saved by the atonement of Christ should be clear to anyone who tries to understand the gospel and the church. What obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel does is make us into the kind of people who can more fully participate in Christ's atonement. Its how we access Jesus Christs True Grace.
Anakin7 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Posted December 16, 2011 Right. It follows, then, that we are not saved unless we obey "the laws and ordinances of the gospel." Grace alone is not sufficient. Hebrews 5:9 In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHT
Anakin7 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Posted December 16, 2011 is that another way of saying that we are saved because we have entered into covenants with Christ and to show we are saved we have faith, repent, renew our covenants at baptism, follow the spirit and endure to the end. The question then becomes do I continue to want to be saved and not do I want to be saved Amen.
Anakin7 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Posted December 16, 2011 Right. It follows, then, that we are not saved unless we obey "the laws and ordinances of the gospel." Grace alone is not sufficient. True unless we access/activate True Grace by way of True Faith. In His Debt/ Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHT
bluebell Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Right. It follows, then, that we are not saved unless we obey "the laws and ordinances of the gospel." Grace alone is not sufficient.The grace of Christ is completely sufficient to save (as the book of mormon teaches)."Works" have no saving power whatsoever. They are just the way that Christ has declared we are to access the power.Both works and grace are needed to become joint-heirs with Christ, but grace alone overcomes spiritual death and reconciles us to God. Edited December 16, 2011 by bluebell
Nevo Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 "Works" have no saving power whatsoever. Yet Christ himself declared that "in the ordinances [of the Melchizedek Priesthood], the power of godliness is manifest. And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh; for without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live" (D&C 84:20-22).If ordinances have no saving power, why do members of the Church expend vast resources of time and money on "redeeming the dead" in temples?
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