Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 Is improper prayer (as LDS understand it; praying to someone other than the Father) a violation of a commandment or doctrine?Christ taught us how to pray by word an example; he always gave glory to the Father.Shouldn’t all believers do the same?I would like all viewpoints. This topic has been danced around all week so I thought I would post a thread that addresses it directly and only.
Gillebre Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 Violation of a commandment, in my honest opinion.
CV75 Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 Is improper prayer (as LDS understand it; praying to someone other than the Father) a violation of a commandment or doctrine?I think so, but only if they insist on doing it after understanding how Christ taught us to pray (by example as in the Lord’s Prayer and by instruction as in 3 Nephi 18:19-30) and how He exhibited patience toward those who prayed to Him under certain (extenuating, I think) circumstances (3 Nephi 19:22).It is interesting that the Nephite Disciples prayed to the Father in 19:6-8 but to Jesus in 19:18 after being filled with the Holy Ghost and after being instructed by Jesus to pray. For all I know they had an experience of faith such as the brother of Jared, who saw the flesh and blood finger of Jesus long before He was born into mortality--except in this case they had such faith to see the Father as perfectly represented by the Son, or to see the absolute divine investiture of authority bestowed upon the Son by the Father, and so prayed to Him. Just my speculation. After this, prayers were apparently consistently addressed to the Father in the name of the son (for example, 3 Nephi 27:2, 28:30, Moroni 3:2, 4:2, 8:3).
ldsfaqs Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 The command is to do it properly.....Of course, we LDS aren't going to beat anyone over the head, especially if we are in public, by not participating or being critical etc.Of course, if it is a fellow member then we should prepare ourselves with a proper backed up response, and teach that member the "correct order of prayer".
Brade Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Wait, what are we talking about here? Praying to somebody other than God, or praying in English without using 'thee', 'thou', and other archaic informal pronouns, or both?
Gohan Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Wait, what are we talking about here? Praying to somebody other than God, or praying in English without using 'thee', 'thou', and other archaic informal pronouns, or both?Is improper prayer (as LDS understand it; praying to someone other than the Father) a violation of a commandment or doctrine?I think it was the first one.
Brade Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 The command is to do it properly.....Of course, we LDS aren't going to beat anyone over the head, especially if we are in public, by not participating or being critical etc.Of course, if it is a fellow member then we should prepare ourselves with a proper backed up response, and teach that member the "correct order of prayer".I think it was the first one.That's what I thought, but ldsfaqs' response seemed odd since I doubt many members aren't praying to God, though I do know of members who prayed using modern English (I was one of them).
thesometimesaint Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Commandment. But what you do in the privacy of your own closet is between you and God.
Brade Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Commandment. But what you do in the privacy of your own closet is between you and God.Well, sure. But if it's a commandment, then, of course, though people are free to not obey the commandment in the privacy of their own closet, they will, nonetheless, be disobeying God. Right? If it's a commandment, then, sure, people can not obey it in the privacy of their own closet, but they should obey it in the privacy of their own closet! Edited November 12, 2011 by Brade
thesometimesaint Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Brade:Agreed. But I'd be the last person to try to enforce it.
Popular Post Brant Gardner Posted November 12, 2011 Popular Post Posted November 12, 2011 I have a hard time believing that sincere prayer is wrong in any context. Were I a pagan with no knowledge of Christianity (or Judaism), I might yet have a sincere prayer answered by God, even though it might have been addressed to a foreign god. Inside the church we have cultural norms about how to pray, and it sounds strange to hear the prayer in a different form, but that is a problem with our hearing, not God's.The heart of the instructions about prayer in the scriptures (such as no vain repetitions) are designed to separate sincere personal prayer from formulaic "charm" prayers, which assume an incorrect relationship with God. 5
Calm Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 I am with you, Brant. If a particular form of prayer is a commandment, it is for the purpose of better preparing us to come to the Lord rather than to prevent sinning by improper address, etc....at least in regards to a sincere prayer.And if a prayer is not sincere, even if it is in 'perfect' form and language, it is more likely to be breaking a commandment than one from the heart no matter what 'mistakes' are made.
etana Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Is improper prayer (as LDS understand it; praying to someone other than the Father) a violation of a commandment or doctrine?Christ taught us how to pray by word an example; he always gave glory to the Father.Shouldn’t all believers do the same?I would like all viewpoints. This topic has been danced around all week so I thought I would post a thread that addresses it directly and only.I don't have the authority to decide for someone else what is improper or a violation of a commandment. The mortal Messiah seemed to be more about example than commandment. I try to follow his example and pray directly to the Father through His intercession. "Prayer" itself can mean different things to different people. For Catholics for example (as I understand it -- and please, correct me if i don't), requesting intersession from the righteous dead to pray to the Father on their behalf is still a prayer to the Father. Inasmuch as the dead are still a part of the Kingdom or the Church or the "Body of Christ", it's little different than a Mormon asking the Bishop to pray for them.But maybe i misunderstood where you were going with this.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 14, 2011 Author Posted November 14, 2011 Wait, what are we talking about here? Praying to somebody other than God, or praying in English without using 'thee', 'thou', and other archaic informal pronouns, or both?Prayer to someone other than the Father in the name of Jesus Christ.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 14, 2011 Author Posted November 14, 2011 I don't have the authority to decide for someone else what is improper or a violation of a commandment. The mortal Messiah seemed to be more about example than commandment. I try to follow his example and pray directly to the Father through His intercession. "Prayer" itself can mean different things to different people. For Catholics for example (as I understand it -- and please, correct me if i don't), requesting intersession from the righteous dead to pray to the Father on their behalf is still a prayer to the Father. Inasmuch as the dead are still a part of the Kingdom or the Church or the "Body of Christ", it's little different than a Mormon asking the Bishop to pray for them.But maybe i misunderstood where you were going with this.Many thought that Pope John Paul, was going to declare Mary as co-equal and co-eternal with God in his life time. He had a statue of the Madonna in his apartment which he prayed too daily. So many pray to Saints to act as mediator, between God an man, thus removing Christ from this role. Jehovah’s Witnesses, unwittingly pray to Christ as they believe Jehovah to be the Father. It is a basic principle, in which it seems to me that we should follow Christ’s model.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 22, 2011 Author Posted November 22, 2011 I don't have the authority to decide for someone else what is improper or a violation of a commandment. The mortal Messiah seemed to be more about example than commandment. I try to follow his example and pray directly to the Father through His intercession. "Prayer" itself can mean different things to different people. For Catholics for example (as I understand it -- and please, correct me if i don't), requesting intersession from the righteous dead to pray to the Father on their behalf is still a prayer to the Father. Inasmuch as the dead are still a part of the Kingdom or the Church or the "Body of Christ", it's little different than a Mormon asking the Bishop to pray for them.But maybe i misunderstood where you were going with this.It is often a point of contention that we don't need to pray to the Father, because; Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the same God. Christ's teaching on this matter and concerning himself seem to me to put prayer as he instructed into the commandment realm.
Peppermint Patty Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 I sincerely hope that "improper prayer" is not a violation of any commandment. As someone with 3 young, and sometimes mischievous daughters, I have had heard enough "improper prayers" to last a lifetime.
Kenngo1969 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 I sincerely hope that "improper prayer" is not a violation of any commandment. As someone with 3 young, and sometimes mischievous daughters, I have had heard enough "improper prayers" to last a lifetime.Heck, we mischievous often adults get in on the act, too!
Cobalt-70 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Is improper prayer (as LDS understand it; praying to someone other than the Father) a violation of a commandment or doctrine?Prayer is just talking. It isn't a magical incantation. There is no difference between Peter talking to Jesus when he was present than if Peter had prayed to Jesus when he was somewhere else. That prayer is just talking is illustrated also by 3 Ne. 19:18 with the Nephite apostles. Besides, Mormons (since 1916) believe that the biblical god Jehovah (YHWH) is Jesus, and without disputing that theory, there are several examples of prophets in the old testament praying to YHWH. See, for example, Johan 4:2, 2 Kings 6:18, 2 Samuel 8:6.
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