The Olmec-Jaredite Convergence

[Olavarria]

The following is not the result of any original scholarship on my part. It's more of a mental excercise to relieve bordedom. So, here we go. The Jaredites are a dynastic lineage described in the Book of Mormon and not a unique nation or civilization. In my view, some Jaredites were "Olmec"; but almost no Olmec were Jaredites. I believe this is the case because, in my mind, Jaredite history and Olmec archeology seem to converge upon each other.

To know when the Jaredites lived we must first deduce an end date for the dynastic lineage, look at the Jaredite lineage history and then count backward, from Ether to Lib. If Ether's ominus prophesy to Coriantmr, recorded in Ether 11:20-21, was declared just before the arrival of Lehi's group then the last Jaredite king, Coriantumr would have died at around 600 B.C. If Coriantmr died just one day before Mosiah's group arrived, then he could not have lived later than 200bc. This gives us an end date for the dynastic lineage at 400bc, plus or minus 200 years. The following, are the generations of a Jaredite dynastic lineage, from Ether down to Lib, as found in Ether 1:17-30.

Ether*

Coriantor

Moron

Ethem

Ahah

Seth

Shiblon

Com

Coriantum

Amnigaddah

Aaron*

Heth

Hearthom

Lib

Kish

Corom

Levi

Kim

Morianton*

Riplakish

Shez

Heth

Com

Coriantum

Emer

Omer

Shule

Kib

Orihah

Jared

Now, some Jaredite kings lived very long lives. Several kings are described as being "exceedingly old" and having children in their old age, with at least one king living past 100 years(Ether 7:7 and 9:23,24). So, how many years were in 14 generations? We don't know; we will have to approximate about 65 years(3). Our safest bets end at the 14th generation mark because Morianton does not seem to be a son of Riplakish. He might have been a son, but he also might have been a grand son, or even great-grand son(4). After counting back 14 generations, 65 years for each generation, we get the following major dates for the Jaredite dynastic lineage, followed by corresponding dates in Olmec archeology:

JAREDITE DATES(+/- 200 Years)

2350BC:Jaredites land in New World(5).

1310BC:King Lib builds a great city by the narrow neck of land, by the place where the sea divides the land.Jaredites continue to avoid settlement south of the narrowneck of land, but now begin to enter sporadically in search of game(Ether 10:19-21).

855BC:There began to be wars and contentions in all the land, and also many famines and pestilences, insomuch that there was a great destruction, such an one as never had been known upon the face of the earth; and all this came to pass in the days of Shiblom(Ether 11:5-7).

400BC:End of the Jaredite ruling lineage.

OLMEC DATES(6)

2500-1500BC:The first farming villages in Mesoamerica appear. Settlers raise maize, chili peppers, squash and cotton.

1500-1200BC:Olmec build San Lorenzo. San Lorenzo was excavated by a Yale expedition between 1966 and 1969, "fully developed Olmec culture, represented typically by gigantic basalt sculptures fashioned in a distinctive style, proved to date back to 1400BC"(7).

1100BC:By this time, La Venta becomes a major Olmec site.

900BC:The Olmec site of San Lorenzo is destroyed. Olmec monuments are attacked, defaced and buried(.

900BC:Olmec settlement spreads into areas east of Tehuantepec(9).

400 BC:The Olmec site of La Venta is destroyed(10).

Sources

(1)Ether 11: 23, "And it came to pass that Coriantor begat Ether, and he died, having dwelt in captivity all his days."

(2)Ether 10:29-31, "And he begat Heth, and Heth lived in captivity all his days. And Heth begat Aaron, and Aaron dwelt in captivity all his days; and he begat Amnigaddah, and Amnigaddah also dwelt in captivity all his days; and he begat Coriantum, and Coriantum dwelt in captivity all his days; and he begat Com."

(3)Sidney B. Sperry, Book of Mormon Chronology (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1970). These dates follow Sperry's earliest estimate of 65 years per generation in the Jaredite king list, which is more in line with an early date for Babel and the confusion of tongues. Possible time gaps in the king list have been questioned where "descendant" replaces "son." Sperry (p. 24) points out that "descendant" implies the meaning of "son," rather than indicating a generation gap. For example, the king list says, "Shez was the son of Heth" (Ether 1:25), but the text says Shez was a "descendant" of Heth (Ether 10:1). Sperry places the Jaredite destruction at about 550 BC in one estimate, but recognizes the Jaredites may have continued contemporary with the Mulekites for well over a century (pp. 23,25).http://www.ancientamerica.org/library/medi...F%20LIB.htm?n=0

(4)Ether 10:8-9, "And when he had reigned for the space of forty and two years the people did rise up in rebellion against him; and there began to be war again in the land, insomuch that Riplakish was killed, and his descendants were driven out of the land. And it came to pass after the space of many years, Morianton, (he being a descendant of Riplakish) gathered together an army of outcasts, and went forth and gave battle unto the people; and he gained power over many cities; and the war became exceedingly sore, and did last for the space of many years; and he did gain power over all the land, and did establish himself king over all the land."

(5)We have a minimum of 23 Jaredite kings, maybe more.

(6)Charles Phillips, Complete Illustrated History of the Aztec and Maya; Lorenz Books (June 25, 2007), pg 24

(7)Michael Coe, The Maya 7th Edition, pg 50.

(8)Charles Phillips, Complete Illustrated History of the Aztec and Maya; Lorenz Books (June 25, 2007), pg 29.

(9)John Clark has noted:"Given what little is known of Jaredite settlement, we need to be careful not to imagine that we know more than we do. Second, the text states that the land southward was opened up during the days of King Lib. It is worth pointing out that the explosion of Olmec influence east of Tehuantepec (Sorenson's land southward) occurred after 900 BC, with only spotty influence before. I think the text can be read as indicating that the south lands opened up at this time, with colonization being part of the package." http://farms.byu.edu...?...um=2&id=545

(10)Charles Phillips, Complete Illustrated History of the Aztec and Maya; Lorenz Books (June 25, 2007), pg 292.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria

[Maidservant]

I always equate Jaredites and Olmecs in my mind, but I realize I do that without any great study on my part. I think it is based on the Olmec phrenology, if their statues are any indication, which looks "Asian", and I have always understood Jaredites to be "Asian" phrenologically. But I could be mixed up on who the statues I am thinking of belong to.

[Olavarria]

In my view, some Jaredites were "Olmec" but most Olmec were not Jaredites.

Strictly speaking, the Jaredites are a dynastic lineage, not a people.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria

[cinepro]

I'm a little confused. Can someone explain to me why the Lord led the Jaredites to the

In my view, some Jaredites were "Olmec" but most Olmec were not Jaredites.

Strictly speaking, the Jaredites are a dynastic lineage, not a people.

Hate to be a party pooper, but I'll just remind everyone that the Church still appears to teach a literal global flood/ Tower of Babel story that has the promised land being vacant when the Jaredites show up.

Ether 2:7 certainly makes a little less sense if there were already a bunch of Olmecs living there:

7 And the Lord would not suffer that they should stop beyond the sea in the wilderness, but he would that they should come forth even unto the land of promise, which was choice above all other lands, which the Lord God had preserved for a righteous people.

Unless the Olmecs were righteous pre-Christians as well.

[altersteve]

Ether 2:7 certainly makes a little less sense if there were already a bunch of Olmecs living there:

The Americas are preserved for the righteous, but question is what it means by that. If we take this literally then we would have some problems, because not everyone living the Americas now is "righteous" in any sense of the word. All this means is that God has blessed the Americas as a "land of promise," not that only righteous people can be there.

[Calm]

Laman and Lemuel were among the Lehites when they arrived and unless they had a major faith changing event that was not documented, I don't really see them as shining examples of righteousness, either at that moment or later in their lives. If they weren't, then some people need to change their assumptions about the meaning of that verse and others like it.

Edited October 4, 2011 by calmoriah

[cinepro]

Laman and Lemuel were among the Lehites when they arrived and unless they had a major faith changing event that was not documented, I don't really see them as shining examples of righteousness, either at that moment or later in their lives. If they weren't, then some people need to change their assumptions about the meaning of that verse and others like it.

I wonder if Elder Holland has changed his assumptions:

Holy scripture records that “after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof.” (Ether 13:2.) Such a special place needed now to be kept apart from other regions, free from the indiscriminate traveler as well as the soldier of fortune. To guarantee such sanctity the very surface of the earth was rent. In response to God’s decree, the great continents separated and the ocean rushed in to surround them. The promised place was set apart. Without habitation it waited for the fulfillment of God’s special purposes.

With care and selectivity, the Lord began almost at once to repeople the promised land. The Jaredites came first, with stories of the great flood fresh in their memories and the Lord’s solemn declaration ringing in their ears: “Whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.” (Ether 2:8.)

Despite such counsel, however, the Jaredite civilization steadily degenerated into a violent society which forced a man to keep “the hilt of his sword in his right hand” (Ether 14:2)—until finally he “ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow.” (Ether 15:26.)

But even as the last light flickered on Jaredite civilization, a bold new sun rose to illuminate a thousand years of Nephite-Lamanite experience on the same soil. Despite periods of war and rebellion, these people nevertheless had great moments of power and purity, including the personal ministry of the resurrected Christ, who walked and talked and prayed with these New World inhabitants for three indescribable days. There in the meridian of time the land enjoyed three generations of peace and perfection, which it would not know again until the Master’s millennial reign.

[Calm]

I don't see any assumption that every last individual brought to this land was righteous. That it was meant for a haven for Saints to worship the Lord does not exclude others with different beliefs, it does require them to not be able to impose their practices on others or prevent them from worshipping the Lord (as was going to be attempted by nonbelievers immediately prior to Christ's birth as related by Nephite...an action prevented by the Lord).

[cinepro]

I don't see any assumption that every last individual brought to this land was righteous. That it was meant for a haven for Saints to worship the Lord does not exclude others with different beliefs, it does require them to not be able to impose their practices on others or prevent them from worshipping the Lord (as was going to be attempted by nonbelievers immediately prior to Christ's birth as related by Nephite...an action prevented by the Lord).

Just in case you missed it...

In response to God’s decree, the great continents separated and the ocean rushed in to surround them. The promised place was set apart. Without habitation it waited for the fulfillment of God’s special purposes.

With care and selectivity, the Lord began almost at once to repeople the promised land. The Jaredites came first, with stories of the great flood fresh in their memories and the Lord’s solemn declaration ringing in their ears: “Whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.” (Ether 2:8.)

(emphasis added)

The issue isn't that everyone was righteous. The issue is that there was nobody else here when the Jaredites show up.

Edited October 4, 2011 by cinepro

[Senator]

Just in case you missed it...

The issue isn't that everyone was righteous. The issue is that there was nobody else here when the Jaredites show up.

Well, it should at least put to rest the theories of "others" inhabiting the land prior to the Lehites. Or at least until their records show up revealing their divinely led migrations.

[blackstrap]

Just in case you missed it...

The issue isn't that everyone was righteous. The issue is that there was nobody else here when the Jaredites show up.

That is how it has been taught as long as can remember(55+years).ie.clean slate,then Jaredites.

[blackstrap]

Not so clear as to the Lehites. After a 1000 years of occupation by the descendents of the Jaredites(and others brought here after them) the entire hemisphere was likely explored and inhabited.

[Calm]

The issue isn't that everyone was righteous. The issue is that there was nobody else here when the Jaredites show up.

And one of the assumptions of why this was so is based in my experience on the assumption that only the righteous can come to the land (thus more or less random people wandering over a land bridge wouldn't be included). I am addressing one of the assumptions in the argument, not all.

[Calm]

Well, it should at least put to rest the theories of "others" inhabiting the land prior to the Lehites. Or at least until their records show up revealing their divinely led migrations.

Any reason why the "others" couldn't be Jaredites?

And why assume there were no others led as God had led Nephites, etc. simply because we lack the records?

We would never had known about the Mulekites if the Nephites hadn't encountered them.

Then there is the problem of the indefinite time arrival of the Jaredities....

Edit: it's funny how a 'not' can completely change the meaning of a sentence .

Edited October 5, 2011 by calmoriah

[Rob Osborn]

One of the problems I see is that Olmec and Mayan styles were indeed so similar, they were probably the same peoples, just at different times in their existance. I view the olmec as more of the early Jaredite civilization and the mayan as the latter part of the Jaredite civilization. The nephites, I believe, did not build such large civilizations as these folks. I also believe, even though it is not recorded, that the Jaredites at the peak of their existance, traveled the entirety of the pacific and traded with Asia and populated the pacific Islands.

[Rob Osborn]

Also of note, and something to think about- The Jaredites lasted long enough in their recorded civilization (about 2,000 years) that at the end of their civilization, their own people would be coming across their own ancestors ancient ruins and would maybe even wonder who those ancient ruins and relics belonged to! That would be like Jews in the Holy land today uncovering ancient ruins from the time of Christ.

[Robert F. Smith]

To know when the Jaredites lived we must first deduce an end date for the dynastic lineage, look at the Jaredite lineage history and then count backward, from Ether to Lib. If Ether's ominus prophesy to Coriantmr, recorded in Ether 11:20-21, was declared just before the arrival of Lehi's group then the last Jaredite king, Coriantumr would have died at around 600 B.C. If Coriantmr died just one day before Mosiah's group arrived, then he could not have lived later than 200bc. This gives us an end date for the dynastic lineage at 400bc, plus or minus 200 years. The following, are the generations of a Jaredite dynastic lineage, from Ether down to Lib, as found in Ether 1:17-30.

Now, some Jaredite kings lived very long lives. Several kings are described as being "exceedingly old" and having children in their old age, with at least one king living past 100 years(Ether 7:7 and 9:23,24). So, how many years were in 14 generations? We don't know; we will have to approximate about 65 years(3). Our safest bets end at the 14th generation mark because Morianton does not seem to be a son of Riplakish. He might have been a son, but he also might have been a grand son, or even great-grand son(4). After counting back 14 generations, 65 years for each generation, we get the following major dates for the Jaredite dynastic lineage, followed by corresponding dates in Olmec archeology:

JAREDITE DATES(+/- 200 Years)

2350BC:Jaredites land in New World(5).

(3)Sidney B. Sperry, Book of Mormon Chronology (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1970). These dates follow Sperry's earliest estimate of 65 years per generation in the Jaredite king list, which is more in line with an early date for Babel and the confusion of tongues. Possible time gaps in the king list have been questioned where "descendant" replaces "son." Sperry (p. 24) points out that "descendant" implies the meaning of "son," rather than indicating a generation gap. For example, the king list says, "Shez was the son of Heth" (Ether 1:25), but the text says Shez was a "descendant" of Heth (Ether 10:1). Sperry places the Jaredite destruction at about 550 BC in one estimate, but recognizes the Jaredites may have continued contemporary with the Mulekites for well over a century (pp. 23,25).http://www.ancientamerica.org/library/medi...F%20LIB.htm?n=0

(9)John Clark has noted:"Given what little is known of Jaredite settlement, we need to be careful not to imagine that we know more than we do. Second, the text states that the land southward was opened up during the days of King Lib. It is worth pointing out that the explosion of Olmec influence east of Tehuantepec (Sorenson's land southward) occurred after 900 BC, with only spotty influence before. I think the text can be read as indicating that the south lands opened up at this time, with colonization being part of the package." http://farms.byu.edu...?...um=2&id=545

Excellent lecture by John Clark, especially with the illustrations. Thanks, Pedro.

Glad you noticed the odd use of both "descendant" and "son" at various points in Jaredite lineage. This may reflect the fact that both define the same word in Semitic and Sumerian. We do not in fact know whether we have all names in that lineage. There may indeed be gaps of uncertain length.

Sperry's offhand use of 65 years for each generation provides no certainty whatever. We don't even know whether it gets us into the ballpark on dating anything. So what can we do?

Since the "Babel" in the biblical Tower of Babel story is likely a late gloss (from Exilic times), and since the book of Ether does not use the word "Babel," but instead speaks of a Great Tower, we know that we are dealing with an early Mesopotamian ziqqurat.

We can only extrapolate from other data, which leads me to assume that the Olmec (or Jaredite) invention of the basic Mesoamerican calendar system, with the formal Long Count beginning ca 3100 B.C., should have that as their beginning date -- as the anniversary of the Jaredite arrival in the New World, and the foundation date of Olmec culture. Many other dates in the Book of Mormon fit snugly into that Mesoamerican calendaric pattern (as both Sorenson and Clark observe).

Of course there were already plenty of peoples in the New World when the Jaredites arrived, and there had been for 10s of thousands of years.

[Robert F. Smith]

One of the problems I see is that Olmec and Mayan styles were indeed so similar, they were probably the same peoples, just at different times in their existance. I view the olmec as more of the early Jaredite civilization and the mayan as the latter part of the Jaredite civilization. The nephites, I believe, did not build such large civilizations as these folks. I also believe, even though it is not recorded, that the Jaredites at the peak of their existance, traveled the entirety of the pacific and traded with Asia and populated the pacific Islands.

The Olmec and Maya are very distinct peoples and cultures. They are not similar in language, style, or area of settlement, even though the Olmec constituted the "Mother Culture" for all Mesoamerican peoples. Indeed, not much later, after the Olmec demise, most of those Mesoamerican cultures completely forgot about the Olmec -- being virtually unaware that they had ever existed.

[Avatar4321]

To know when the Jaredites lived we must first deduce an end date for the dynastic lineage, look at the Jaredite lineage history and then count backward, from Ether to Lib. If Ether's ominus prophesy to Coriantmr, recorded in Ether 11:20-21, was declared just before the arrival of Lehi's group then the last Jaredite king, Coriantumr would have died at around 600 B.C. If Coriantmr died just one day before Mosiah's group arrived, then he could not have lived later than 200bc. This gives us an end date for the dynastic lineage at 400bc, plus or minus 200 years. The following, are the generations of a Jaredite dynastic lineage, from Ether down to Lib, as found in Ether 1:17-30.

Im not sure the Book of Mormon really states that Coriantmr was alive right before Mosaiah did. Only that the people of Zarahemla encountered him. I would say that puts him between 600-500BC when that people first arrived, and not when Mosaiah and his group joined up with the People of Zarahemla. I thinl 400BC is probably late.

Of course, we only have what little Moroni wrote and the few statements Mormon made concerning the Jaredites. The fact is we dont know much about them at all other than they were there before the Nephites were. I can't pretend to be an expert here though.

[Rob Osborn]

The Olmec and Maya are very distinct peoples and cultures. They are not similar in language, style, or area of settlement, even though the Olmec constituted the "Mother Culture" for all Mesoamerican peoples. Indeed, not much later, after the Olmec demise, most of those Mesoamerican cultures completely forgot about the Olmec -- being virtually unaware that they had ever existed.

I beg to differ. They used the same count system and there is some proof they used the same calendar system. They also used similar building techniques. I think it fair to say in comparison that the native Americans of our day are far removed from their ancestoral roots of the BoM peoples. So, why would it be any different than the Jaredites? They both span the same period of time? Modern native Americans who know nothing of the LDS religion have no clue or are completely unaware of their ancestors- the Nephites and Lamanites- being virtually unaware that they had ever existed.

Just something to think over.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Rob Osborn

[cinepro]

Since the "Babel" in the biblical Tower of Babel story is likely a late gloss (from Exilic times), and since the book of Ether does not use the word "Babel," but instead speaks of a Great Tower, we know that we are dealing with an early Mesopotamian ziqqurat.

Wait a second. Can you please explain to me how these verses might not be referring to the Tower of Babel?

Ether 1:

[3] And as I suppose that the first part of this record, which speaks concerning the creation of the world, and also of Adam, and an account from that time even to the great tower, and whatsoever things transpired among the children of men until that time, is had among the Jews --

[33] Which Jared came forth with his brother and their families, with some others and their families, from the great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, and swore in his wrath that they should be scattered upon all the face of the earth; and according to the word of the Lord the people were scattered.

Are you just saying that the name "Babel" is incorrect?

Edited October 5, 2011 by cinepro

[Olavarria]

Im not sure the Book of Mormon really states that Coriantmr was alive right before Mosaiah did. Only that the people of Zarahemla encountered him. I would say that puts him between 600-500BC when that people first arrived, and not when Mosaiah and his group joined up with the People of Zarahemla. I thinl 400BC is probably late.

Of course, we only have what little Moroni wrote and the few statements Mormon made concerning the Jaredites. The fact is we dont know much about them at all other than they were there before the Nephites were. I can't pretend to be an expert here though.

I used 2 extremes in dating, Lehi's arrival and Mosiah's migration. I don't know when Coriantmr died, only that it must have been in that time frame, not sooner, not later.

[Olavarria]

http://maxwellinstit...nscripts/?id=28

Excellent lecture by John Clark, especially with the illustrations.  Thanks, Pedro.

Glad you noticed the odd use of both "descendant" and "son" at various points in Jaredite lineage.  This may reflect the fact that both define the same word in Semitic and Sumerian.  We do not in fact know whether we have all names in that lineage.  There may indeed be gaps of uncertain length.

Sperry's offhand use of 65 years for each generation provides no certainty whatever.  We don't even know whether it gets us into the ballpark on dating anything.  So what can we do?

Since the "Babel" in the biblical Tower of Babel story is likely a late gloss (from Exilic times), and since the book of Ether does not use the word "Babel," but instead speaks of a Great Tower, we know that we are dealing with an early Mesopotamian ziqqurat.

We can only extrapolate from other data, which leads me to assume that the Olmec (or Jaredite) invention of the basic Mesoamerican calendar system, with the formal Long Count beginning ca 3100 B.C., should have that as their beginning date -- as the anniversary of the Jaredite arrival in the New World, and the foundation date of Olmec culture.  Many other dates in the Book of Mormon fit snugly into that Mesoamerican calendaric pattern (as both Sorenson and Clark observe).

Of course there were already plenty of peoples in the New World when the Jaredites arrived, and there had been for 10s of thousands of years.

Here's another possibility: I'm looking at the dates for the Mayan dynastic rulers.

In Dos Pilas, we have 4 different rulers in 100 years(25 years per king).

In Tikal, starting at 300ad with Shiyaj Chan K'awiil and ending with Jasaw Chan K'awiil, we have 22 rulers in 569 years(25 years per king).

In Yachilan, we have 17 rulers in about 450 years(26 years per king).

In Copan, we have 16 rulers, I left out the last one because we don't know when he died, in 400 years. Again, 25 years per ruler.

So in 4 different documented mesoamerican dynasties, we have an average of 25 years per king. Which means 100 years for every 4 kings.

Ether*

Coriantor

Moron

Ethem

Ahah

Seth

Shiblon

Com

Coriantum

Amnigaddah

Aaron*

Heth

Hearthom

Lib

So from the begining of Lib's reign to the end of Corianmr, we have about 450 years, assuming the Jaredite kings lasted at a comparable rate as the Maya. And you know what they say about the word assume.

Sorenson puts the end at 580BC.

So following Sorenson, Jaredite dates might look something more like this:

JAREDITE DATES

930BC:King Lib builds a great city by the narrow neck of land, by the place where the sea divides the land.Jaredites continue to avoid settlement south of the narrowneck of land, but now begin to enter sporadically in search of game(Ether 10:19-21).

655BC:There began to be wars and contentions in all the land, and also many famines and pestilences, insomuch that there was a great destruction, such an one as never had been known upon the face of the earth; and all this came to pass in the days of Shiblom(Ether 11:5-7).

580BC:End of the Jaredite ruling lineage.

Olmec Dates

1500-1200BC:Olmec build San Lorenzo.

1100BC:By this time, La Venta becomes a major Olmec site.

900BC:The Olmec site of San Lorenzo is destroyed. Olmec monuments are attacked, defaced and buried( .

400 BC:The Olmec site of La Venta is destroyed(10).

Edited October 5, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria

[Olavarria]

Here's another way, 1720 B.C(Sorenson's date for beginning of Levi's reign) - 580bc(Sorenson's estimation for the end)

= 1140 years of Jaredite kings, from Levi to Ether.

The Book of Ether gives us 17 Jaredite kings, from Levi to Ether.

1140/17= 67 year average on throne.

JAREDITE DATES

1518BC:King Lib builds a great city by the narrow neck of land(Ether 10:19-21).

1049BC:The Great Destruction(Ether 11:5-7).

580BC:End of the Jaredite ruling lineage.

Olmec Dates

1500-1200BC:Olmec build San Lorenzo.

900BC:The Olmec site of San Lorenzo is destroyed. Olmec monuments are attacked, defaced and buried.

400 BC:The Olmec site of La Venta is destroyed.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria

[Olavarria]

Here's another possibility: I'm looking at the dates for the Mayan dynastic rulers.

In Dos Pilas, we have 4 different rulers in 100 years(25 years per king).

In Tikal, starting at 300ad with Shiyaj Chan K'awiil and ending with Jasaw Chan K'awiil, we have 22 rulers in 569 years(25 years per king).

In Yachilan, we have 17 rulers in about 450 years(26 years per king).

In Copan, we have 16 rulers, I left out the last one because we don't know when he died, in 400 years. Again, 25 years per ruler.

So in 4 different documented mesoamerican dynasties, we have an average of 25 years per king. Which means 100 years for every 4 kings.

Ether*

Coriantor

Moron

Ethem

Ahah

Seth

Shiblon

Com

Coriantum

Amnigaddah

Aaron*

Heth

Hearthom

Lib

So from the begining of Lib's reign to the end of Corianmr, we have about 450 years, assuming the Jaredite kings lasted at a comparable rate as the Maya. And you know what they say about the word assume.

Sorenson puts the end at 580BC.

So following Sorenson, Jaredite dates might look something more like this:

JAREDITE DATES

930BC:King Lib builds a great city by the narrow neck of land, by the place where the sea divides the land.Jaredites continue to avoid settlement south of the narrowneck of land, but now begin to enter sporadically in search of game(Ether 10:19-21).

655BC:There began to be wars and contentions in all the land, and also many famines and pestilences, insomuch that there was a great destruction, such an one as never had been known upon the face of the earth; and all this came to pass in the days of Shiblom(Ether 11:5-7).

580BC:End of the Jaredite ruling lineage.

Olmec Dates

1500-1200BC:Olmec build San Lorenzo.

1100BC:By this time, La Venta becomes a major Olmec site.

900BC:The Olmec site of San Lorenzo is destroyed. Olmec monuments are attacked, defaced and buried( .

400 BC:The Olmec site of La Venta is destroyed(10).

I don't think this is good. Mayan king lists tell us how long these people reigned, not how long they lived. The dynasty recorded in Ether 1 tells us who begat who, not how long they lived or how long the reigned.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria