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Rob Bowman

"Praise To The Man"

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I’d like to suggest looking at the LDS hymn Praise to the Man in a different way. This hymn does not simply praise Joseph Smith, though that is itself surprising. It praises Smith in language that the Bible typically and in most cases exclusively reserves for God and Christ:

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

“I…will sing praise to the name of the Lord [Jehovah] most high” (Ps. 7:17; cf. 9:2; 30:12; 104:33; etc.).

Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ” (Eph. 1:10).

“God, who…spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son” (Heb. 1:1-2).

“Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him” (Ps. 72:11, of the king of Israel as a type of Christ).

“I will extol thee, my God, O king, and I will bless thy name for ever and ever” (Ps. 145:1).

“Behold, my servant [Christ] shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high” (Is. 52:13).

Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr; Honored and blest be his ever great name!

“Blessed be thy glorious name…” (Neh. 9:5).

“Sing forth the honour of his name” (Ps. 66:2).

“Blessed be his glorious name forever” (Ps. 72:19).

“Let them praise thy great and terrible name” (Ps. 99:3).

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.

“And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven” (Col. 1:20).

“Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people” (Rom. 15:11).

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

“Great is the glory of the Lord” (Ps. 138:5).

“…another priest [Jesus], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life…. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood…. the Son, who is consecrated for evermore” (Heb. 7:15, 24, 28).

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

“…behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of [Hades] and of death” (Rev. 1:18).

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

“These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness…” (Rev. 3:14).

“…the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” (Matt. 16:28).

“…and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Luke 1:33).

“Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” (Luke 23:42).

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man.

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God” (Heb. 10:12).

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3).

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

“…all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer” (Is. 49:26).

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

“For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand” (Acts 2:34).

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

“Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?” (Ps. 2:1).

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again.

“Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him” (Rom. 6:9).

There is no precedent in the Bible for a hymn of praise to any man other than the man who was God incarnate, Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10). The Psalms contain scant references to Abraham (Ps. 47:9; 105:6, 89, 42) and Moses (Ps. 77:20; 90 title; 99:6; 103:7; 105:26; 106:16, 23, 32), none of which in any way praise or honor them. The Psalms contain a few more references to David, not counting the many titles naming him as the author (Ps. 18:50; 78:70; 89:3, 20, 35, 49; 122:5; 132:10, 11, 17; 144:10). Again, they say nothing in praise of David or even speak of any of his accomplishments. The Psalms do prophecy that God will exalt David or the descendant of David, who represents the Messiah, Jesus (e.g., Ps. 72:11; 89:24). In this light, the unabashed praising of Joseph Smith using honorific language that the Bible normally and in most cases exclusively uses for Deity is quite shocking. This argument cannot be overturned by picking out a phrase or two and showing that they might be used in other contexts; it is the fact that such an abundance of biblical language for honoring God is brought together in this context of a hymn explicitly written in praise to Joseph that must be addressed.

My conclusion here is not that Mormons elevate Joseph above Jesus, or that they make Joseph equal to Jesus, or that they "worship" Joseph. I agree that the hymn clearly distinguishes between Joseph and God. My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

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I’d like to suggest looking at the LDS hymn Praise to the Man in a different way. This hymn does not simply praise Joseph Smith, though that is itself surprising. It praises Smith in language that the Bible typically and in most cases exclusively reserves for God and Christ:

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

“I…will sing praise to the name of the Lord [Jehovah] most high” (Ps. 7:17; cf. 9:2; 30:12; 104:33; etc.).

Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ” (Eph. 1:10).

“God, who…spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son” (Heb. 1:1-2).

“Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him” (Ps. 72:11, of the king of Israel as a type of Christ).

“I will extol thee, my God, O king, and I will bless thy name for ever and ever” (Ps. 145:1).

“Behold, my servant [Christ] shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high” (Is. 52:13).

Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr; Honored and blest be his ever great name!

“Blessed be thy glorious name…” (Neh. 9:5).

“Sing forth the honour of his name” (Ps. 66:2).

“Blessed be his glorious name forever” (Ps. 72:19).

“Let them praise thy great and terrible name” (Ps. 99:3).

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.

“And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven” (Col. 1:20).

“Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people” (Rom. 15:11).

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

“Great is the glory of the Lord” (Ps. 138:5).

“…another priest [Jesus], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life…. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood…. the Son, who is consecrated for evermore” (Heb. 7:15, 24, 28).

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

“…behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of [Hades] and of death” (Rev. 1:18).

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

“These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness…” (Rev. 3:14).

“…the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” (Matt. 16:28).

“…and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Luke 1:33).

“Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” (Luke 23:42).

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man.

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God” (Heb. 10:12).

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3).

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

“…all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer” (Is. 49:26).

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

“For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand” (Acts 2:34).

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

“Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?” (Ps. 2:1).

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again.

“Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him” (Rom. 6:9).

There is no precedent in the Bible for a hymn of praise to any man other than the man who was God incarnate, Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10). The Psalms contain scant references to Abraham (Ps. 47:9; 105:6, 89, 42) and Moses (Ps. 77:20; 90 title; 99:6; 103:7; 105:26; 106:16, 23, 32), none of which in any way praise or honor them. The Psalms contain a few more references to David, not counting the many titles naming him as the author (Ps. 18:50; 78:70; 89:3, 20, 35, 49; 122:5; 132:10, 11, 17; 144:10). Again, they say nothing in praise of David or even speak of any of his accomplishments. The Psalms do prophecy that God will exalt David or the descendant of David, who represents the Messiah, Jesus (e.g., Ps. 72:11; 89:24). In this light, the unabashed praising of Joseph Smith using honorific language that the Bible normally and in most cases exclusively uses for Deity is quite shocking. This argument cannot be overturned by picking out a phrase or two and showing that they might be used in other contexts; it is the fact that such an abundance of biblical language for honoring God is brought together in this context of a hymn explicitly written in praise to Joseph that must be addressed.

My conclusion here is not that Mormons elevate Joseph above Jesus, or that they make Joseph equal to Jesus, or that they "worship" Joseph. I agree that the hymn clearly distinguishes between Joseph and God. My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

I look forward to the analysis of the rest of the LDS authored and borrowed hymns. What percentage of our hymnal do you figure praises Joseph vs. The Savior?

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There is no precedent in the Bible for a hymn of praise to any man other than the man who was God incarnate, Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10).

meh.

The notion that for something to be good or acceptable it has to have biblical precedent may be your unbiblical dogma, but it's not ours.

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EbedPopularity.png

Interesting concept. Your conclusion is wrong, however. Praise to the Man no more glorifies Joseph Smith than St Anatolius the Patriarch of Constantinople glorified St. Stephen the Martyr in the hymn he wrote:

Words: An­a­tol­i­us, cir­ca 800 (Τω Βασιλει και Δεαποτη); trans­lat­ed from Greek to Eng­lish by John M. Neale in The Ec­cles­i­as­tic and The­o­lo­gian, 1853.

Music: Wohl­auf, Thut Nicht Ver­zag­en, Bar­tho­lo­mä­us Held­er (1585-1635) (MI­DI, score).

The Lord and King of all things

But yesterday was born;

And Stephen’s glorious offering

His birth-tide shall adorn:

No pearls of orient splendor,

No jewels can he show;

But with his own true heart’s blood

His shining vestments glow.

Come, ye that love the martyrs,

And pluck the flowers of song,

And weave them in a garland,

For this our suppliant throng;

And cry, “O thou that shinest

In grace’s brightest ray,

Christ’s valiant protomartyr,

For peace and favor pray!”

Thou first of all confessors,

Of all the deacons crown,

Of every following athlete,

The glory and renown:

Make supplication, standing

Before Christ’s royal throne,

That He would give the kingdom,

And for our sins atone!

Edited by ebeddoulos

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Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

“Great is the glory of the Lord” (Ps. 138:5).

“…another priest [Jesus], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life…. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood…. the Son, who is consecrated for evermore” (Heb. 7:15, 24, 28).

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

“…behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of [Hades] and of death” (Rev. 1:18).

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

“These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness…” (Rev. 3:14).

“…the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” (Matt. 16:28).

“…and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Luke 1:33).

“Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” (Luke 23:42).

If Rob Bowman is bothered by the above, I suspect he would have heartburn over this passage from Paul, the apostle:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and join-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Romans 8:16-18.

At the heart of Rob's quibbling is his underlying discomfort over the scriptural doctrine of deification. I suppose it will ever be thus with many of those who style themselves as Evangelicals.

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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Jesus gives to man a potential above himself:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

Of course such potential is linked to faith in Christ. The first verse of the hymn describes exactly where JS's authority comes from: "Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer". Our own scriptures equate the words of the prophets with the words of Jesus as if he had spoke them. I see nothing wrong or inappropriate with this hymn.

Edited by BCSpace

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Thank you, I take great comfort that the world and the EV community is offended by us in praising Joseph Smith.

*Turns Up Volume* Praise to the man...............

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I’d like to suggest looking at the LDS hymn Praise to the Man in a different way. This hymn does not simply praise Joseph Smith, though that is itself surprising. It praises Smith in language that the Bible typically and in most cases exclusively reserves for God and Christ:

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

“I…will sing praise to the name of the Lord [Jehovah] most high” (Ps. 7:17; cf. 9:2; 30:12; 104:33; etc.).

Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ” (Eph. 1:10).

“God, who…spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son” (Heb. 1:1-2).

“Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him” (Ps. 72:11, of the king of Israel as a type of Christ).

“I will extol thee, my God, O king, and I will bless thy name for ever and ever” (Ps. 145:1).

“Behold, my servant [Christ] shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high” (Is. 52:13).

Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr; Honored and blest be his ever great name!

“Blessed be thy glorious name…” (Neh. 9:5).

“Sing forth the honour of his name” (Ps. 66:2).

“Blessed be his glorious name forever” (Ps. 72:19).

“Let them praise thy great and terrible name” (Ps. 99:3).

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.

“And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven” (Col. 1:20).

“Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people” (Rom. 15:11).

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

“Great is the glory of the Lord” (Ps. 138:5).

“…another priest [Jesus], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life…. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood…. the Son, who is consecrated for evermore” (Heb. 7:15, 24, 28).

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

“…behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of [Hades] and of death” (Rev. 1:18).

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

“These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness…” (Rev. 3:14).

“…the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” (Matt. 16:28).

“…and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Luke 1:33).

“Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” (Luke 23:42).

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man.

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God” (Heb. 10:12).

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3).

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

“…all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer” (Is. 49:26).

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

“For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand” (Acts 2:34).

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

“Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?” (Ps. 2:1).

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again.

“Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him” (Rom. 6:9).

There is no precedent in the Bible for a hymn of praise to any man other than the man who was God incarnate, Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10). The Psalms contain scant references to Abraham (Ps. 47:9; 105:6, 89, 42) and Moses (Ps. 77:20; 90 title; 99:6; 103:7; 105:26; 106:16, 23, 32), none of which in any way praise or honor them. The Psalms contain a few more references to David, not counting the many titles naming him as the author (Ps. 18:50; 78:70; 89:3, 20, 35, 49; 122:5; 132:10, 11, 17; 144:10). Again, they say nothing in praise of David or even speak of any of his accomplishments. The Psalms do prophecy that God will exalt David or the descendant of David, who represents the Messiah, Jesus (e.g., Ps. 72:11; 89:24). In this light, the unabashed praising of Joseph Smith using honorific language that the Bible normally and in most cases exclusively uses for Deity is quite shocking. This argument cannot be overturned by picking out a phrase or two and showing that they might be used in other contexts; it is the fact that such an abundance of biblical language for honoring God is brought together in this context of a hymn explicitly written in praise to Joseph that must be addressed.

My conclusion here is not that Mormons elevate Joseph above Jesus, or that they make Joseph equal to Jesus, or that they "worship" Joseph. I agree that the hymn clearly distinguishes between Joseph and God. My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

I have heard many a sermon in EV Churches where a Minister or Christian is praised for their great service or life. The song was written by a friend of Joseph’s; more than anything to atone for once betraying him. It is a beautiful song and we are thankful for the Prophet’s life and the faith that unites us. Singing this song three or four times a year does not make up worshipers of JS, no more than “Onward Christian Soldier” would make Christians war mongers.

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I have heard many a sermon in EV Churches where a Minister or Christian is praised for their great service or life. The song was written by a friend of Joseph’s; more than anything to atone for once betraying him. It is a beautiful song and we are thankful for the Prophet’s life and the faith that unites us. Singing this song three or four times a year does not make up worshipers of JS, no more than “Onward Christian Soldier” would make Christians war mongers.

Nor does singing this non-LDS Christian hymn make non-Mormon Christians worshipers of St. Peter and St. Paul:

My link

"The Vespers hymn (1st and 2nd) for Ss Peter and Paul is DECORA LUX in Mode 4 which celebrates Peter and Paul as our great Apostolic princes. As the imagery of the flowing blood of martyrs permeates through every stanza of this dramatic piece, Peter is revered as the great shepherd for bringing the first Christian communities together and Paul for traveling throughout the Roman Empire teaching the Gospel to all . The hymn honours them in their final earthly resting place ‘O happy Rome,’ the place that now shares in their martyred glory. In celebrating the death of Ss Peter and Paul united as their blood mingles in ‘the twofold stream,’ we rejoice in the triumph of life and death offered to God ‘where unending ages flow.’"

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You are missing the point, folks. Such a hymn or tribute cannot be found in the Bible; therefore, it cannot be right.

Bernard

Edited by Bernard Gui

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You are missing the point, folks Such a hymn or tribute cannot be found in the Bible ; therefore, it cannot be right.

I dunno 'bout that.

There's a whole book in the Bible that's a song in praise of sex, innt there?

Lehi

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I dunno 'bout that.

There's a whole book in the Bible that's a song in praise of sex, innt there?

Lehi

Get your hands off of my pomegranites thou perv!

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My conclusion here is not that Mormons elevate Joseph above Jesus, or that they make Joseph equal to Jesus, or that they "worship" Joseph. I agree that the hymn clearly distinguishes between Joseph and God. My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

So I take it you don't like "Ave Maria" either.

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Popcorn Popping and In The Leafy Treetops are evidence of pagan nature worship among pre-school age LDS.

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Popcorn Popping and In The Leafy Treetops are evidence of pagan nature worship among pre-school age LDS.

Don't forget "'Give,' Said the Little Stream."

"Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam" may be borderline. But it is also sung in non-Mormon Christian congregations.

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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This Protestant hymn about John the Baptist also seems to skirt the edge a bit closely:

My link (Warning! Audio)

The great forerunner of the morn,

The herald of the Word, is born:

And faithful hearts shall never fail

With thanks and praise his light to hail.

Edited by Okrahomer

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This Protestant hymn about John the Baptist also seems to skirt the edge a bit closely:

My link

The great forerunner of the morn,

The herald of the Word, is born:

And faithful hearts shall never fail

With thanks and praise his light to hail.

Please warn us when your links have audio. :fool:

I clicked on it, the organ music rang out, and everybody looked at me. My colleague in the cubicle across the aisle exclaimed, "Sweet! Crank it up." I got flustered and couldn't remember for several seconds how to close it.

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Please warn us when your links have audio. :fool:

I clicked on it, the organ music rang out, and everybody looked at me. My colleague in the cubicle across the aisle exclaimed, "Sweet! Crank it up." I got flustered and couldn't remember for several seconds how to close it.

My bad! Sorry about that, and thanks for the tip.

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This Protestant hymn about John the Baptist also seems to skirt the edge a bit closely:

My link

The great forerunner of the morn,

The herald of the Word, is born:

And faithful hearts shall never fail

With thanks and praise his light to hail.

There is no precedent in the Bible for a hymn of praise to any man other than the man who was God incarnate, Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10).

In this light, the unabashed praising of Joseph Smith using honorific language that the Bible normally and in most cases exclusively uses for Deity is quite shocking.

My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

Since this is a major concern with Rob Bowman with all religions, I thought I would save him some precious time by writing out the following to bring it to the attention to the Protestant faithful. That way, he can still keep his focus on the LDS faithful. Hate to see him distracted.

In this light, the unabashed praising of John the Baptist using honorific language that the Bible normally and in most cases exclusively uses for Deity is quite shocking.

My conclusion is that the glorification of John the Baptist in the Protestant religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirt) alone.

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I’d like to suggest looking at the LDS hymn Praise to the Man in a different way. This hymn does not simply praise Joseph Smith, though that is itself surprising. It praises Smith in language that the Bible typically and in most cases exclusively reserves for God and Christ:

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

“I…will sing praise to the name of the Lord [Jehovah] most high” (Ps. 7:17; cf. 9:2; 30:12; 104:33; etc.).

Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ” (Eph. 1:10).

“God, who…spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son” (Heb. 1:1-2).

“Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him” (Ps. 72:11, of the king of Israel as a type of Christ).

“I will extol thee, my God, O king, and I will bless thy name for ever and ever” (Ps. 145:1).

“Behold, my servant [Christ] shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high” (Is. 52:13).

Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr; Honored and blest be his ever great name!

“Blessed be thy glorious name…” (Neh. 9:5).

“Sing forth the honour of his name” (Ps. 66:2).

“Blessed be his glorious name forever” (Ps. 72:19).

“Let them praise thy great and terrible name” (Ps. 99:3).

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.

“And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven” (Col. 1:20).

“Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people” (Rom. 15:11).

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

“Great is the glory of the Lord” (Ps. 138:5).

“…another priest [Jesus], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life…. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood…. the Son, who is consecrated for evermore” (Heb. 7:15, 24, 28).

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

“…behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of [Hades] and of death” (Rev. 1:18).

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

“These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness…” (Rev. 3:14).

“…the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” (Matt. 16:28).

“…and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Luke 1:33).

“Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” (Luke 23:42).

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man.

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God” (Heb. 10:12).

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3).

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

“…all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer” (Is. 49:26).

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

“For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand” (Acts 2:34).

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

“Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?” (Ps. 2:1).

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again.

“Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him” (Rom. 6:9).

There is no precedent in the Bible for a hymn of praise to any man other than the man who was God incarnate, Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10). The Psalms contain scant references to Abraham (Ps. 47:9; 105:6, 89, 42) and Moses (Ps. 77:20; 90 title; 99:6; 103:7; 105:26; 106:16, 23, 32), none of which in any way praise or honor them. The Psalms contain a few more references to David, not counting the many titles naming him as the author (Ps. 18:50; 78:70; 89:3, 20, 35, 49; 122:5; 132:10, 11, 17; 144:10). Again, they say nothing in praise of David or even speak of any of his accomplishments. The Psalms do prophecy that God will exalt David or the descendant of David, who represents the Messiah, Jesus (e.g., Ps. 72:11; 89:24). In this light, the unabashed praising of Joseph Smith using honorific language that the Bible normally and in most cases exclusively uses for Deity is quite shocking. This argument cannot be overturned by picking out a phrase or two and showing that they might be used in other contexts; it is the fact that such an abundance of biblical language for honoring God is brought together in this context of a hymn explicitly written in praise to Joseph that must be addressed.

My conclusion here is not that Mormons elevate Joseph above Jesus, or that they make Joseph equal to Jesus, or that they "worship" Joseph. I agree that the hymn clearly distinguishes between Joseph and God. My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

There may not be a "hymn" of that description in the Bible; but none-hymnal words of praise of similar kind do exist; which could be turned into a hymn if one wanted to. Here are biblical words of praise to Moses which are very similar to the hymn of praise for Joseph Smith:

Deuteronomy 34
:

10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

11 In all the signs and the wonders, which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land,

12 And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.

How is the sentiment expressed in these verses any different form those expressed in the hymn to Joseph Smith? I don't see any difference, except that one is expressed as a hymn, and the other one isn't (but could easily be).

That hymn was written by William W. Phelps as an expression of his personal love and affection for Joseph Smith. He had at one time apostatized form the Church, and turned against Joseph Smith, and testified against him, as a result of which he had brought a lot of persecution and suffering on the Prophet, as well as on the Church and the Saints. But afterwards when he repented and returned to the Church, and asked Joseph's forgiveness, he freely forgave him. As a result of that he developed such a great love for Joseph Smith for the rest of his life that after Joseph Smith's death he composed that hymn as an expression of his personal love for Joseph Smith. I doubt he ever expected that it to become a popular hymn in the Church. But it is a sentiment LDS can share with Phelps, and have no problem expressing. If you have a problem with that, tough luck! Nobody is forcing you to become a Mormon if you don't want to! :)

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There may not be a "hymn" of that description in the Bible; but none-hymnal words of praise of similar kind do exist; which could be turned into a hymn if one wanted to. Here are biblical words of praise to Moses which are very similar to the hymn of praise for Joseph Smith:

Deuteronomy 34
:

10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

11 In all the signs and the wonders, which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land,

12 And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.

How is the sentiment expressed in these verses any different form those expressed in the hymn to Joseph Smith? I don't see any difference, except that one is expressed as a hymn, and the other one isn't (but could easily be).

That hymn was written by William W. Phelps as an expression of his personal love and affection for Joseph Smith. He had at one time apostatized form the Church, and turned against Joseph Smith, and testified against him, as a result of which he had brought a lot of persecution and suffering on the Prophet, as well as on the Church and the Saints. But afterwards when he repented and returned to the Church, and asked Joseph's forgiveness, he freely forgave him. As a result of that he developed such a great love for Joseph Smith for the rest of his life that after Joseph Smith's death he composed that hymn as an expression of his personal love for Joseph Smith. I doubt he ever expected that it to become a popular hymn in the Church. But it is a sentiment LDS can share with Phelps, and have no problem expressing. If you have a problem with that, tough luck! Nobody is forcing you to become a Mormon if you don't want to! :)

Thanks for this.

I hadn't brought it up yet, but I thought of other occasions when individuals other than God have been praised in scripture. Job was characterized as "perfect and upright, and one that feared God and eschewed evil." The Lord himself declared that Nathanael was an Israelite in whom there was no guile. And he said that of all who had been born of women, there had not risen a greater than John the Baptist.

Perhaps Rob Bowman will respond that the verse goes on to say "notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

Here is what Joseph Smith said about that portion of the verse:

“Second question:—How was the least in the kingdom of heaven greater than he? [see Luke 7:28.]

“In reply I asked—Whom did Jesus have reference to as being the least? Jesus was looked upon as having the least claim in God’s kingdom, and [seemingly] was least entitled to their credulity as a prophet; as though He had said—‘He that is considered the least among you is greater than John—that is I myself.’ ”4

Bottom line: Except for Christ Himself, John the Baptist was identified by Christ as being the greatest among those then in mortality.

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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So far, not one of you has addressed the argument I presented. My argument is not (a) that it is always wrong to give any sort of praise to a human being, or (b) that the LDS hymnal praises Joseph more than Jesus, or (c ) that there is no biblical basis for some sort of doctrine that might be described by the term "deification" (a concept I neither mentioned nor criticized).

Edited by Rob Bowman

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I’d like to suggest looking at the LDS hymn Praise to the Man in a different way. This hymn does not simply praise Joseph Smith, though that is itself surprising. It praises Smith in language that the Bible typically and in most cases exclusively reserves for God and Christ:

My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

I do not think it does.

This hymn is not religious devotion to Joseph Smith, but an expression of religious devotion to God and His ideals.There are many ways to pay devotion to God. This song accomplished this by recognizing what God did through His prophet, and by reciting those attributes and actions that are worthy of emulation by all Christians (“…would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!”--Numbers 11:29). All Christians should seek to:

commune with Jehovah

be blessed to work in line with the last dispensation

expect kings to extol, and nations revere (as in Isaiah 49:23)

lose our lives in His service

plead unto heaven in our persecutions

possess glory and endless priesthood

ever and ever hold the keys

faithful and true, enter our kingdom, crowned in the midst of the prophets of old

sacrifice to bring forth the blessings of heaven

understand that earth must atone for the blood of the innocent

wake up the world for the conflict of justice

let our light so shine

ascend to heaven

expect that traitors and tyrants to fight us in vain

mingle with Gods, plan for our brethren

understand that death cannot conquer the faithful

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So far, not one of you has addressed the argument I presented. My argument is not (a) that it is always wrong to give any sort of praise to a human being, or (b) that the LDS hymnal praises Joseph more than Jesus, or (c ) that there is no biblical basis for some sort of doctrine that might be described by the term "deification" (a concept I neither mentioned nor criticized).

My post perfectly answered your questions. You just want to waste people’s time. Here is a more detailed reply to your post, if you insist:

I’d like to suggest looking at the LDS hymn Praise to the Man in a different way. This hymn does not simply praise Joseph Smith, though that is itself surprising. It praises Smith in language that the Bible typically and in most cases exclusively reserves for God and Christ:

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

“I…will sing praise to the name of the Lord [Jehovah] most high” (Ps. 7:17; cf. 9:2; 30:12; 104:33; etc.).

Objection overruled. The “praises” are not equivalent. Joseph Smith is praised for “communing with Jehovah”. It is Jehovah who is ultimately being praised here. The greater glory is going to Him, not to Joseph Smith.

Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Blessed to open the last dispensation Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ” (Eph. 1:10).

“God, who…spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son” (Heb. 1:1-2).

“Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him” (Ps. 72:11, of the king of Israel as a type of Christ).

“I will extol thee, my God, O king, and I will bless thy name for ever and ever” (Ps. 145:1).

“Behold, my servant [Christ] shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high” (Is. 52:13).

Objection redundant. The Joseph’s praise rebounds on Jesus who “anointed” him. It is Jesus who is ultimately being glorified here. As for him being “anointed” by Jesus, there are biblical parallels:

1 John 2
:

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

“Unction” means “anointing”. So there is nothing wrong with being anointed by Jesus Christ. As for “kings extolling him,” we have:

Revelation 1
:

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5
:

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So if you are made a king and priest in the kingdom of heaven, then it is to be expected to receive praise from earthly kings.

Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr; Honored and blest be his ever great name!

“Blessed be thy glorious name…” (Neh. 9:5).

“Sing forth the honour of his name” (Ps. 66:2).

“Blessed be his glorious name forever” (Ps. 72:19).

“Let them praise thy great and terrible name” (Ps. 99:3).

Matthew 5
:

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.

“And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven” (Col. 1:20).

“Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people” (Rom. 15:11).

Matthew 10
:

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 16
:

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

“Great is the glory of the Lord” (Ps. 138:5).

“…another priest [Jesus], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life…. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood…. the Son, who is consecrated for evermore” (Heb. 7:15, 24, 28).

Romans 8
:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Revelation 5
:

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

“…behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of [Hades] and of death” (Rev. 1:18).

Matthew 16
:

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

“These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness…” (Rev. 3:14).

“…the Son of Man coming in his kingdom” (Matt. 16:28).

“…and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Luke 1:33).

“Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” (Luke 23:42).

John 14
:

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man.

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God” (Heb. 10:12).

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3).

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

“…all flesh shall know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer” (Is. 49:26).

Psalms 50
:

5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

“For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand” (Acts 2:34).

2 Kings 2
:

1 And it came to pass, when the Lord would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

“Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?” (Ps. 2:1).

John 16
:

33 In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again.

“Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him” (Rom. 6:9).

John 5
:

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

There is no precedent in the Bible for a hymn of praise to any man other than the man who was God incarnate, Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10). The Psalms contain scant references to Abraham (Ps. 47:9; 105:6, 89, 42) and Moses (Ps. 77:20; 90 title; 99:6; 103:7; 105:26; 106:16, 23, 32), none of which in any way praise or honor them. The Psalms contain a few more references to David, not counting the many titles naming him as the author (Ps. 18:50; 78:70; 89:3, 20, 35, 49; 122:5; 132:10, 11, 17; 144:10). Again, they say nothing in praise of David or even speak of any of his accomplishments. The Psalms do prophecy that God will exalt David or the descendant of David, who represents the Messiah, Jesus (e.g., Ps. 72:11; 89:24). In this light, the unabashed praising of Joseph Smith using honorific language that the Bible normally and in most cases exclusively uses for Deity is quite shocking. This argument cannot be overturned by picking out a phrase or two and showing that they might be used in other contexts; it is the fact that such an abundance of biblical language for honoring God is brought together in this context of a hymn explicitly written in praise to Joseph that must be addressed.

See reply given in post #20.

My conclusion here is not that Mormons elevate Joseph above Jesus, or that they make Joseph equal to Jesus, or that they "worship" Joseph. I agree that the hymn clearly distinguishes between Joseph and God. My conclusion is that the glorification of Joseph Smith in Mormon religion as attested by this hymn infringes on the exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.

See above, as well as post #20.

Edited by zerinus

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So far, not one of you has addressed the argument I presented. My argument is not (a) that it is always wrong to give any sort of praise to a human being, or (b) that the LDS hymnal praises Joseph more than Jesus, or (c ) that there is no biblical basis for some sort of doctrine that might be described by the term "deification" (a concept I neither mentioned nor criticized).

Yeah we got the "exclusive religious devotion due to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone." thing and (the scholarly among us) produced prodigious examples of biblical passages that are similar to the modern hymn.

If you had a greater understanding of the Latter-day Saints you would know that we revere Joseph the man but we Worship God.

Edited by DaddyG

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