bookofmormontruth Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) I think the church leaders, certainly at the local level, have gone through various interpretations as new information has come out. For example there was at one time a great hooplah about the danger of caffeine (and make no mistake for some people it can be very harmful, ie if you have high blood pressure or heart problems) and so it was assumed because coffee and tea had caffeine that was the reason for the ban (and oh my, wasn't that great that the Prophet had such foreknowledge); and if they are bad then let's carry that over to soft drinks. I don't think Joseph ever thought there would be such a debate about this. However, I find it quite significant that now the question is only asked as a general question of whether you keep the WOW. I think everyone can agree that tobacco and alcohol are harmful and no one questions that and I know many non-LDS who refrain from these nowadays. However, keep in mind that the WOW also says "wheat for man" yet we know there are people who are highly allergic to wheat and can't have it in any form. This is where the "wisdom" comes in. It's not as cut and dried as some like to make it out to be. However, I think we need to stop rationalizing and just examine whether what we are taking into our bodies is going to contribute to our health, have zero impact either way or definitely harm us, depending on how our bodies react.Well if they have that food sensitivity (IgG) to gluten or a true allergy(IgE) to wheat then they aren't following the Word of Wisdom since it states we should eat wheat and therefore the commandment breakers cannot receive a Temple recommend.This is the same type of brilliant rationale that is rampant on this very thread.I hope that was meant to be a joke but just in case you will be leaving the building. Edited June 23, 2011 by Minos
KevinG Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I think chocolate is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom because refraining from it would be more than the weakest of the Saints could bear. 3
cinepro Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I think the church leaders, certainly at the local level, have gone through various interpretations as new information has come out. For example there was at one time a great hooplah about the danger of caffeine (and make no mistake for some people it can be very harmful, ie if you have high blood pressure or heart problems) and so it was assumed because coffee and tea had caffeine that was the reason for the ban (and oh my, wasn't that great that the Prophet had such foreknowledge); and if they are bad then let's carry that over to soft drinks. I don't think Joseph ever thought there would be such a debate about this. I think we need to get the word out: caffeine kills.
DarkScythe Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Well if they have that food sensitivity (IgG) to gluten or a true allergy(IgE) to wheat then they aren't following the Word of Wisdom since it states we should eat wheat and therefore the commandment breakers cannot receive a Temple recommend.This is the same type of brilliant rationale that is rampant on this very thread.Once you understand the difference between the Spirit of the Law and the Letter of the Law then you will understand their rationale.
Magyar Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Are all the things from which Mormons are admonished to abstain only evil? Is it possible that hot coffee need not be considered to be evil, but a sacrifice of a good that you are willing to make for God?Very perceptive. LDS make a covenant to abstain. Non-members are not bound by that covenant. Just as Jews don't believe that God punishes Gentiles for eating pork and shellfish. And the OT Nazarites made a covenant to avoid strong drink, but the rest of their brethren were not bound to that. Ultimately, members can speculate til the cows come home why we don't drink tea and coffee, which is the interpretation by the Church leadership for "hot drinks," but speculation can tangle your shoestrings. We don't drink tea and coffee, in any of their forms. That is our covenant. By the way, I like the similar practice of the Roman Catholic Church to abstain from red meat on Fridays in memory of Jesus.
frankenstein Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I can kind of understand that given the harm of sodas to teens who probably don't eat right anyway.there is probably a number of reasons. I like MRSR response "because they choose not too". one could get sugared cereal at the MTC at least when I was there (1997), on day one I saw some get a bowl of fruitloops (the last portion left in the canister, then dump it out) the Caferteria did not replace the fruits till 3 weeks later, my last day in the MTC.
frankenstein Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I think we need to get the word out: caffeine kills. "It would take 347.91 cans of Dr Pepper to put you down. "challenge accepted. 1
Craig Paxton Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Put the straw man down and ask God how it applies to you.Ummmm...and how exactly am I using a supposed "Straw man"? When I received my doctorate in Rhetorical Augment Theory at Christ Church College in Oxford...I was taught that a straw man fallacy is a rhetorical tool to throw off an argument with an easily distorted variant of the original premises in the hope that by misrepresenting the argument one can win the argument. Ironically, dear DaddyG, your claim to my supposed use of a straw man was in fact a rhetorical tool that is also a common fallacy argument called a straw dog. One uses a straw dog by referring to a premise as a straw man in the hope that by doing so it will throw the presenter of the original argument off his/her original scent (argument) and also to confuse the basis of the original premises. Rarely used…but thanks for allowing me to share a classic example of a “Argumentum ad stipulae canis ” Coincidence that your avatar is a dog? Me thinks not... Edited June 23, 2011 by Craig Paxton 1
KevinG Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 "It would take 347.91 cans of Dr Pepper to put you down. "challenge accepted.Wouldn't you drown first?It would only take three cans of Dr. Pepper to derail my heartbeat. In retrospect I should have followed the promptings to avoid it. If someone is truly trying to follow the Word of Wisdom they will ponder what is good for them. Not to share over the pulpit but to know how the Lord would bless their life.Which brings me to a new thread...
Rivers Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 This is the way I see it: There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter of the law must be obeyed in order to be baptized and receive a temple recommend. Obeying the spirit of the law will bring us more blessings in our life.The letter of the law outlaws specific substances: Tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and illegal drugs.The spirit of the law is to keep our bodies has healthy as we possibly can. Diet Pepsi and other caffeiniated sodas are not against the letter of the law but are certainly against the spirit of the law.As Captain Barbossa would say, the word of wisdom revelataion was more guidlines than actual rules. The beginning of the revelation stated that it was "not by commandment nor constraint." Certain parts of the word of wisdom have been made into commandments by later prophets.
DarkScythe Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 "It would take 347.91 cans of Dr Pepper to put you down. "challenge accepted.that would be an interesting site if you actually do that. and I would love to see it happen, if you or someone insane enough to do it. 1
Calm Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 The spirit of the law is to keep our bodies has healthy as we possibly can. Diet Pepsi and other caffeiniated sodas are not against the letter of the law but are certainly against the spirit of the law.As much for the empty calories as the caffeine. One researcher found that if one drinks on average one soda can a day (nondiet) that is equivalent to 15 lbs additional weight a year (which means one either sacrifices useful nutrition in cutting back on other foods to cut calories or has to increase exercise to burn those extra calories). I also heard eons ago, need to do some research one of these days to confirm it or not, that carbonation destroys vitamins....Bs IIRC so even that aspect of soda may be problematic for those trying to be healthy in their choices.
KevinG Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Ummmm...and how exactly am I using a supposed "Straw man"? The straw man consisted of presenting the Word of Wisdom and church doctrine as against caffiene and by criticizing the Word of Wisdom as incomplete revelation for health guidelines. It was not meant to be a comprehensive doctrine regarding diet and health.When I received my doctorate in Rhetorical Augment Theory at Christ Church College in Oxford...Nice appeal to authority. 2
Jigglysaint Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 It would take 290.06 cans of Red Bull to put you down. (the stereotypical energy drink)Gulp down 116.03 cans of Xenergy and you're history. (my preferred brand of energy drink because it makes sugar free taste awesome)After 160.03 cups of Drip Coffee, you'd be pushing up daisies. (the standard by which all caffeine is judged)You could drink 672.61 cans of Coca-Cola Classic before croaking. (the standard for which all soft drinks are measured)There's no caffeine in Coca-Cola caffeine free, so that won't kill you. You can go for death by sugar intake, though. (for epic lulz)It would take 493.72 cups of Brewed Tea to put you down. (that's not too bad)Somehow I think this website embellishes things a bit too much.
Yirgacheffe Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 It would take 290.06 cans of Red Bull to put you down. (the stereotypical energy drink)Gulp down 116.03 cans of Xenergy and you're history. (my preferred brand of energy drink because it makes sugar free taste awesome)After 160.03 cups of Drip Coffee, you'd be pushing up daisies. (the standard by which all caffeine is judged)You could drink 672.61 cans of Coca-Cola Classic before croaking. (the standard for which all soft drinks are measured)There's no caffeine in Coca-Cola caffeine free, so that won't kill you. You can go for death by sugar intake, though. (for epic lulz)It would take 493.72 cups of Brewed Tea to put you down. (that's not too bad)Somehow I think this website embellishes things a bit too much.It only took about 2 gallons of water to kill Jennifer Strange. 1
thesometimesaint Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Most juices including apple juice have tannins.See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin#Fruit_juicesFWIW As little as 2 teaspoons of water in the right place will kill you.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 I am not aware that you can. You are going to see the SP right (Or is that Questing Beast that is)? Tell him you drink decaf and see what he says. I bet you don't get a recommend. When on my mission people had to stop drinking coffee and tea even if it was decaf. I am not aware of any changes to that. Any one willing to take my challenge regarding decaf coffee or tea? Anyone at all?
CARPE DIEM Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 Any one willing to take my challenge regarding decaf coffee or tea? Anyone at all?How about decaf-Herbal tea's for medicinal purposes? Do you get a TR then?
ELF1024 Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 It would take 290.06 cans of Red Bull to put you down. (the stereotypical energy drink)Gulp down 116.03 cans of Xenergy and you're history. (my preferred brand of energy drink because it makes sugar free taste awesome)After 160.03 cups of Drip Coffee, you'd be pushing up daisies. (the standard by which all caffeine is judged)You could drink 672.61 cans of Coca-Cola Classic before croaking. (the standard for which all soft drinks are measured)There's no caffeine in Coca-Cola caffeine free, so that won't kill you. You can go for death by sugar intake, though. (for epic lulz)It would take 493.72 cups of Brewed Tea to put you down. (that's not too bad)Somehow I think this website embellishes things a bit too much.I think the diet soda will kill you quicker, something about the artificial sweetener....
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 How about decaf-Herbal tea's for medicinal purposes? Do you get a TR then?You could have caffeinated herbal teas for pleasure and still get a TR. Herbal Teas are not an issue. It is Green or Black Tea that are the issue. Decaf or not, they are an issue.
CARPE DIEM Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 You could have caffeinated herbal teas for pleasure and still get a TR. Herbal Teas are not an issue. It is Green or Black Tea that are the issue. Decaf or not, they are an issue.Dang! Something else I'll have to give up! Hum!
Rivers Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 I was taught in church that it was the tannic acid in coffee and tea that makes it bad.
Calm Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 I was taught in church that it was the tannic acid in coffee and tea that makes it bad.Nothing has been revealed about why God has asked us to do so besides what is in the WoW. Nothing about tannic acid there, however it's pretty easy to look up the ingredients and see what doctors are concerned about just so long one is clear that this is not why the Church asks us to abstain from them.
Kenngo1969 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 Dang! Something else I'll have to give up! Hum! Some say that "Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of Heaven!" Is there anything you wouldn't give up to get those?
CARPE DIEM Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 Some say that "Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of Heaven!" Is there anything you wouldn't give up to get those? one of the few vices I have. My church doesn't care what I drink!
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