Bin Laden's Dead

[Mark Beesley]

It continues to utterly amaze me how we take a topic like this and turn it into a platform for spewing political views, stances, and party lines.

I wonder what those brave American soldiers (that entered that compound yesterday) would think of this.

Seems to me, no matter what political view you hold, there is a time to be an American first.

Peace,

Ceeboo

I can appreciate what you are saying. However, I think we should always be Christians first.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:19

[cinepro]

While I along with others am releaved to hear a murderous terrorist is dead... I am not optimistic of the difference it makes. Will this cause the terrorist cells to throw down their weapons of war? No, if history is any indication, it will make the fanatics more fanatical... and those who feared him and what he stood for perhaps more complacent. In fact it is a rather curious thing the timing and if you want to be a real conspiracy buff, how do we know for sure he is really dead? I mean he has been living in luxury and safty for 11 years... the general idea was that he was living in a cave like a rat. Also even if we really did "get him" what does that really mean for the war on terror?

I suspect the mission to kill him was 95% retribution for 9/11, 5% strategy in the current war on terror.

In spite of all the other consequences, it was something that needed to happen, regardless of which party was in the White House at the time.

[blackstrap]

Bin Laden lived as long as he was of some political value.He was allowed to escape Afganistan.His position was well known.He lost his life at this juncture because he was worth more dead than alive.Now watch the spin as an election campaign gets reved up.

Thanks to the mods for allowing the thread thus far to get some of this out of our collective system.

[Ceeboo]

I can appreciate what you are saying. However, I think we should always be Christians first.

Hi Mark,

What the puppy poop, exactly, does that mean?

Peace,

Ceeboo

[frankenstein]

There are about 46 millions of people in the US. At $20,000 a pop, that is some $900 Billion. I don't believe we spend that much money on just the poor.

http://www.warresist...es/piechart.htm

still the boost to the economy would be very much measurable. if the gov. is going to hand out money to boost the economy, then do the smart most obvious thing, put the money in the hands of the public who are going to go out and spend that money. dont waste the money on paying bonuses for a bunch of yahoos who are entirely amoral that they think they should be rewarded for crashing the global economy.

[Mark Beesley]

Hi Mark,

What the puppy poop, exactly, does that mean?

Peace,

Ceeboo

It means that as Americans, while the first tendency (and even my own) may be to feel some sort of exhilaration at the news that Bin Laden had been killed, as Christians we should stop and reflect. Should we be celebrating the death of any person? Shouldn't we, instead, be mourning the loss of a soul to wickedness. Even Nephi was distressed at the thought of having to take the life of an unrighteous man. And shouldn't we be distressed at the waste of war, waged at the cost of providing for the temporal welfare of our neighbors? That's kind of it in a nutshell.

But, I'm just a bleeding heart liberal with a socialist agenda so nothing I say can have any worth.

[Ceeboo]

It means that as Americans, while the first tendency (and even my own) may be to feel some sort of exhilaration at the news that Bin Laden had been killed,

As an American, I can tell you that I had no "exhilaration" from this news.

as Christians we should stop and reflect.

As a Christian, I would suggest that you don't "stop and reflect" for to long, or we might allow the brutal terrorists to murder thousands more innocent men, women, and children at home and around the world.

Should we be celebrating the death of any person?

Clearly not. But we should also be willing to defend and protect against any and all who threaten our freedom and right to breathe on this earth.

Shouldn't we, instead, be mourning the loss of a soul to wickedness.

Perhaps "we" should be mourning the loss of the thousands left in the 9-11 wake and allow God to handle Osama.

Even Nephi was distressed at the thought of having to take the life of an unrighteous man. And shouldn't we be distressed at the waste of war, waged at the cost of providing for the temporal welfare of our neighbors? That's kind of it in a nutshell.

I am not LDS.

But, I'm just a bleeding heart liberal with a socialist agenda so nothing I say can have any worth.

Although perhaps true, not important, and clearly bad timing (IMHO).

Peace,

Ceeboo

[elguanteloko]

As a Christian, I would suggest that you don't "stop and reflect" for to long, or we might allow the brutal terrorists to murder thousands more innocent men, women, and children at home and around the world.

Ceeboo, I love you, man but this is kind of... wrong headed. Christians kill thousands of innocent men, women, and children all the time. You are also much more likely to get killed by a cop in the U.S. than you are of being killed by a terrorist. Granted, outside the U.S. in certain areas it's pretty different but yet again, the U.S. is one of the biggest terrorists in the world.

I am not LDS.

But you are Catholic which is worst. HAHA! I'm joking there.

[Sky]

It means that as Americans, while the first tendency (and even my own) may be to feel some sort of exhilaration at the news that Bin Laden had been killed, as Christians we should stop and reflect. Should we be celebrating the death of any person? Shouldn't we, instead, be mourning the loss of a soul to wickedness. Even Nephi was distressed at the thought of having to take the life of an unrighteous man. And shouldn't we be distressed at the waste of war, waged at the cost of providing for the temporal welfare of our neighbors? That's kind of it in a nutshell.

But, I'm just a bleeding heart liberal with a socialist agenda so nothing I say can have any worth.

I, for one, appreciate everything you said and I believe your points are valid.

Still though, for better or worse, I really don’t feel bad about bin Laden being killed. This is one person that I am glad to say good riddance to. The world is better off without him.

[Minos]

For now anyone who has derailed with their off-topic political pet peeves has been banned from the thread. If partisan backbiting overwhelms the thread it will be closed.

[BCSpace]

Waging righteous war is a Christian ideal.

I must have missed that part of Christ's sermon on the mount . . . and so did everybody else who reported it.

The nice thing about the LDS Church is we don't stop at the Sermon on the Mount or even the NT. We accept all of Jesus' teachings in all the scriptures including those of his modern day prophets including GBH who in Conference put his stamp of approval on recent events.

[BCSpace]

Here is the real benefit to all this and what I was hoping to hear:

Along with bin Laden's body, electronics and hard drives were seized by U.S. forces following the firefight Sunday afternoon.

They have started to arrive at the CIA's Virginia headquarters, officials said. They described the cache as a "volume of materials" that will be "exploited and analyzed" at CIA headquarters.

It's unclear what kinds of information the files might contain. Intelligence officials spent years tracking the threads of information that eventually led them to the courier that led them to bin Laden's compound. But officials have said the successful mission Sunday is only one step in the ongoing fight against Al Qaeda and its affiliates.

White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan, without going into detail, said Monday that analysts are in the process of reviewing the materials they obtained on site, to determine the next step.

"We feel as though this is a very important time to ... take advantage of the steps of yesterday and to continue to work to break the back of Al Qaeda," he said. Asked about the cache of evidence, he said: "It's not necessarily quantity. Frequently, it's quality."

Fox News

[Mark Beesley]

The nice thing about the LDS Church is we don't stop at the Sermon on the Mount or even the NT. We accept all of Jesus' teachings in all the scriptures including those of his modern day prophets including GBH who in Conference put his stamp of approval on recent events.

President Hinckley's "stamp of approval" can be read here. It was delivered at the Sunday morning session of the 2003 April Conference.

Mid-way through his sermon, he states the following.. The emphasis is mine.

In a democracy we can renounce war and proclaim peace. There is opportunity for dissent. Many have been speaking out and doing so emphatically. That is their privilege. That is their right, so long as they do so legally. However, we all must also be mindful of another overriding responsibility, which I may add, governs my personal feelings and dictates my personal loyalties in the present situation.

It is obvious from his sermon that President Hinckley was conflicted about the situtation, and he does not purport to be telling us what is on the Lord's mind. Indeed, he is careful to tell us that he is sharing his personal feelings on the matter.

By the way, I agree with President Hinckley that men and women who are subject to their sovereigns stand uncondemned before God when enaged in military actions. The leaders who needlessly incite war are the ones who will be called to answer.

Perhaps you and I understand the word ideal differently. I would have thought it beyond dispute that peace is the Christian ideal. That a state of war would represent the state of perfection we should strive for never entered my mind.

[blackstrap]

One question,in the real world(outside of CSI) it can take a month to produce a DNA match.Apparently they said there was a match with DNA from Bin Laden's sister's preserved brain tissue. How was it done so fast and would there not be only a familial match not a direct match??

[Alan]

I thought the scenes of cheering crowds in Washington and New York were very distasteful. No different to the cheering Palestinians after the 9/11 atrocity. This did not show America in a good light.

[Nathair/|\]

I thought the scenes of cheering crowds in Washington and New York were very distasteful. No different to the cheering Palestinians after the 9/11 atrocity. This did not show America in a good light.

How do you feel about the cheering crowds after the Battle of Endor?

[Alan]

How do you feel about the cheering crowds after the Battle of Endor?

Pardon my ignorance but I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

[ERayR]

Pardon my ignorance but I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Movies in particular Star Wars. Some people live in a fantasy land and that doesn't even touch the politics of some who shall remain unnamed.

[Nathair/|\]

Pardon my ignorance but I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Here is the battle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ

Here is the celebration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfHX3mAbyrs

[Ceeboo]

Hi Alan,

I thought the scenes of cheering crowds in Washington and New York were very distasteful.

The "Super Bowl celebrations" didn't sit well with me either.

No different to the cheering Palestinians after the 9/11 atrocity.

With great respect intended, I will agree to disagree (They are/were two very different set of circumstances, to be sure. IMHO)

This did not show America in a good light.

I tend to agree with you here.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[Mark Beesley]

I thought the scenes of cheering crowds in Washington and New York were very distasteful. No different to the cheering Palestinians after the 9/11 atrocity. This did not show America in a good light.

I would have liked to give you a positive reputation point, but I've used up my allotment for the day . . . mostly on Brant Gardner's destruction of Rob Bowman defense of The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon video in the Focused Discussion forum. I agree.

[BCSpace]

It is obvious from his sermon that President Hinckley was conflicted about the situtation, and he does not purport to be telling us what is on the Lord's mind. Indeed, he is careful to tell us that he is sharing his personal feelings on the matter.

Well, if we leave it at that (which would be a gross misrepresentation), then at the very least the recent prophet of the Church falls under the condemnation of the Sermon of the Mount in the context you presented.

Furthermore GBH speds a great deal of time justifying war and the Church published his justifications and therefore they are official doctrine. So are you saying GBH is some sort of warmonger? Are you saying peace at any cost? That is in opposition to LDS doctrine and scripture.

[Duncan]

One question,in the real world(outside of CSI) it can take a month to produce a DNA match.Apparently they said there was a match with DNA from Bin Laden's sister's preserved brain tissue. How was it done so fast and would there not be only a familial match not a direct match??

I am no geneticist but I just talked to a friend of mine who does testing and she said that it depends on the volume of work, and sometimes qualified people to do it. Some labs have stuff and some don't so they ship them off to another and better lab to get tested. She works in a hospital lab so what they test is different from what labs test and so her labd could ship stuf off to another lab. I would assume these DNA samples would be top priority, I don't know anything about the second part of your question, sorry!

[Mark Beesley]

Well, if we leave it at that (which would be a gross misrepresentation), then at the very least the recent prophet of the Church falls under the condemnation of the Sermon of the Mount in the context you presented.

Furthermore GBH speds a great deal of time justifying war and the Church published his justifications and therefore they are official doctrine. So are you saying GBH is some sort of warmonger? Are you saying peace at any cost? That is in opposition to LDS doctrine and scripture.

And thus BCSpace falls into his mantra of what is official doctrine . . .

The people of Ammon in the Book of Mormon are my heroes, the ones who buried their weapons of war and suffered themselves to be slain rather than take them up again when threatened.

Also, Hezekiah in the Old Testament, who trusted the Lord, and Lord blessed him by sending His angel to destroy the army of Sennecherib.

And I am left to conclude that a state of war is that state of perfection to which BCSpace aspires.

[ELF1024]

I just don't want to be the poor soul who gets to do his temple work in a couple of years....