Senator Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 It is like saying that because putting criminals in jail has the effect of reforming some of them (though not all of them), therefore volunteering to go to jail (for what reason, I wouldn't know) must also be a good thing, because it might help you reform. Exactly! Some people actually do turn themselves in out of remorse for what they've done in hope of a more full an genuine recompense. It may be rare, but it does happen.
Questing Beast Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 But should he care?Incidentally, I believe that condescending and trivialising expression was actually coined by a rather stupid TV show. What does that tell us about the sources of QB's attitudes towards the Church of Jesus Christ?Regards,PahoranIn my family we have referred to them as "garmies" since forever. It's just a casual word for underwear, so try and not get yours in a knot....
Senator Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. ~ Jesus ChristPOW!!!
ttribe Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Does anyone have access to stats from the church on resignation rates etc?I don't believe so. When I was a Ward Clerk there was no access to such information and I don't know if SLC even tracks it.
Senator Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Why do I get this funny feeling we've all held this conversation sometime, long, long ago?
mercyngrace Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Are you recommending us to sin?Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? ~ Paul
ttribe Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Why do I get this funny feeling we've all held this conversation sometime, long, long ago?You got that too, eh?
maupayman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Well, conversely it seems to me that many ex-Mormons hold pretty much the same view about staying in the Church, so it all evens out in the end:
maupayman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Which former option? Why is leaving the Church for no good reason an option at all? Who wants or needs such an option?There are plenty of good reasons for leaving the church, which is why many people do.
maupayman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Why do I get this funny feeling we've all held this conversation sometime, long, long ago?Do you have a link? What are the odds that the same thing would eventually be discussed more than once on this site? Amazing.
thesometimesaint Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 maupayman:There are plenty of self serving excuses to leave the Church.
maupayman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 maupayman:There are plenty of self serving excuses to leave the Church.I agree with you, as I noted earlier, referring to them as group 1.
Senator Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Do you have a link? What are the odds that the same thing would eventually be discussed more than once on this site? Amazing.Umm...I don't know if you were being facetious ???But I was referring to a really long, long time ago.
ttribe Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Any ex-mormon who made that claim, would be an idiotEver spent any time at a certain other board that shall not be named?
Sky Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Any ex-mormon who made that claim, would be an idiotWell, my perception is that many (but not all) ex-Mormons essentially have that kind of attitude. Are you saying this is not the case?
Jeff K. Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I have a number of Mormon friends who are motorcycle enthusiasts, and even some who enjoy a friendly paintball shoot-em-up.And I know a number of LDS artists who actually (gasp) paint nudes! Oh, the shame. I can hardly bear it.Bernardbigots often engage is negative and unreasoned stereotypes in order to justify their hatred. It is unfortunate but a reality of perception that will not be overcome by any number of commercials. However these commercials do indeed provide an exposure to the freedom we as LDS have to develop our abilities and talents. One might consider it a competing percpetion with the very wrong stereotypes and prejudices projected by people like foxy and questing beast.
Jeff K. Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 In my family we have referred to them as "garmies" since forever. It's just a casual word for underwear, so try and not get yours in a knot....There are references to African Americans that have been used "since forever". Yet we know that such usage is not acceptable in the least.
maupayman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Ever spent any time at a certain other board that shall not be named?I have spent some time on postmormon.org and agree that a lot of people on that site are ridiculous. I get that feeling a lot on this site too.
maupayman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Well, my perception is that many (but not all) ex-Mormons essentially have that kind of attitude. Are you saying this is not the case?In my experience, no, its not the case. We must know very different kinds of ex-mormons, or maybe they tell us very different things.
zerinus Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Exactly! Some people actually do turn themselves in out of remorse for what they've done in hope of a more full an genuine recompense. It may be rare, but it does happen.That is not rare at all. That is exactly what most LDS do when they commit sin. They go to their bishops and confess their sins, and submit whatever church discipline may be imposed on them, including excommunication. That is NOT the same as voluntarily opting to leave the Church (i.e. by requesting name removal). That is an act of defiance and rebellion against the Church. Confessing your sins is an act of submission to Church law and discipline. The two are worlds apart.
zerinus Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? ~ AlmaI say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. ~ Jesus ChristMoreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? ~ PaulYou did not answer my question though: Are you recommending us to sin?
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 That is not rare at all. That is exactly what most LDS do when they commit sin. They go to their bishops and confess their sins, and submit whatever church discipline may be imposed on them, including excommunication. That is NOT the same as voluntarily opting to leave the Church (i.e. by requesting name removal). That is an act of defiance and rebellion against the Church. Confessing your sins is an act of submission to Church law and discipline. The two are worlds apart.What if I felt it was an act of obedience to the Savior the leave the LDS Church, and that by not leaving I would be in rebellion against God?
zerinus Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 There are plenty of good reasons for leaving the church, which is why many people do.I don't believe there are, ever has been, or ever will be a "good" reason for leaving the Church. Anybody who does so is a transgressor, pure and simple.
mercyngrace Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 You did not answer my question though: Are you recommending us to sin?Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. ~ PaulThe Book of Mormon offers striking illustrations of the psychological principle that impatience with the wickedness of others (even when it is real wickedness and not merely imagined) is a sure measure of one's own wickedness. ~ Hugh NibleyMnG
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