Good people, leaving the church

[zerinus]

A friend of mine recently started a website devoted to the stories of those who have left Mormonism:

http://www.iamanexmormon.com/

I watched a few of these videos, the other night, and was impressed by the sincerity and the quality of people that appear to be leaving the church over historical issues. I do admit, however, that some of them are cheesy, like the guy who got booted for making the missionary calendars. I and others are often accused of leaving the church for reasons of weakness or sin. The usual, "you wanted to drink and have sex" accusations. I also know that many people do leave the church for these reasons, though I was not one of them. I left over historical reasons and evidence that the church is not what it claims to be. It appears, from this site, that I am in good company. Would you agree with this? Is this a concern for believers?

Thanks all in advance.

Nobody leaving the Church will be doing themselves any good; and if they are not doing themselves any good, it is unlikely that they will be doing anybody else any good either.

[GP31]

Nobody leaving the Church will be doing themselves any good; and if they are not doing themselves any good, it is unlikely that they will be doing anybody else any good either.

Perhaps you honestly believe that 'nobody will be doing themselves any good' however that is simply an opinion(which you are certainly entitled to) and does not contain any facts to support such a claim. I could give you countless examples of 'good' being done by those who leave the church however I feel it would have very little to zero influence on your view. As a general example, if you believe you only have one opportunity to accomplish a task as opposed to being able to try multiple times which of these do you think will get the better effort the first time? Also your view of those leaving your particular faith is seen in every other faith as well. Obviously you fully believe your faith to be correct however 'feelings' are not a measurement of truth.

[blueadept]

Choose Not to Be Offended

When we believe or say we have been offended, we usually mean we feel insulted, mistreated, snubbed, or disrespected. And certainly clumsy, embarrassing, unprincipled, and mean-spirited things do occur in our interactions with other people that would allow us to take offense. However, it ultimately is impossible for another person to offend you or to offend me. Indeed, believing that another person offended us is fundamentally false. To be offended is a choice we make; it is not a condition inflicted or imposed upon us by someone or something else.

David A. Bednar, 2006

Just thought you should know

While I appreciate the need to not take offense at how one receives a message as the receiver, I never got the concept of letting the messenger say the message in whatever way they chose. Is it better to be understood or to understand?

....

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;

to be understood as to understand;

to be loved as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive;

it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

[thesometimesaint]

blueadept:

I've always liked this quote.

Only a fool takes offense when none is intended, and a bigger one when it is.

Brigham Young

[Senator]

Nobody leaving the Church will be doing themselves any good; and if they are not doing themselves any good, it is unlikely that they will be doing anybody else any good either.

Isn't that one of the main purposes of excommunication?

[zerinus]

Isn't that one of the main purposes of excommunication?

Isn't what the main purpose of excommunication?

[Senator]

Isn't what the main purpose of excommunication?

To do the person some good.

[thesometimesaint]

Senator:

Yes and No. Yes, in that by breaking the membership ties the Church prevent further more serious sin. No, in that if the ex-communicant doesn't take advantage to get they're life together it makes it real hard to re-establish those ties.

[Senator]

Senator:

Yes and No. Yes, in that by breaking the membership ties the Church prevent further more serious sin.

Actually, I had more in mind, that it offers a portal of repentance.

[Deborah]

Excommunication is a new beginning. A way to clean the slate so to speak and start over. However, it only works that way if the person is truly repentant and desires to return. I have had friends who've gone through this process. It took time and work but all their blessings were restored.

[maupayman]

Nobody leaving the Church will be doing themselves any good; and if they are not doing themselves any good, it is unlikely that they will be doing anybody else any good either.

Man, it must be nice to have life be so simple....Everything is an either or

[maupayman]

Thanks all for your insights, this thread has been tough to keep up with. My take on this thread is that most people are not seeing a trend in these types of membership resignations etc. The ones who are seeing it, like myself, are probably just paying more attention the the issue, though it seems that the opposite would likely apply to believing member; ie. they don't pay attention to these types of issues, so they probably are not realizing when they occur.

Does anyone have access to stats from the church on resignation rates etc?

[thesometimesaint]

maupayman:

There is always a few every year that go through the formal process of having their names removed from the Church roles. But most of those that leave just stop coming, and after a while are forgotten about by the members.

[zerinus]

To do the person some good.

First of all excommunication is not the same as voluntarily leaving the Church. Secondly, excommunication is a form of discipline. It is a chastisement. It is also a way of protecting the Church. And chastisement does not always do people good. Sometimes it does them no good at all!

[Sky]

Man, it must be nice to have life be so simple....Everything is an either or

Well, conversely it seems to me that many ex-Mormons hold pretty much the same view about staying in the Church, so it all evens out in the end:

[Senator]

Excommunication is a new beginning. A way to clean the slate so to speak and start over. However, it only works that way if the person is truly repentant and desires to return. I have had friends who've gone through this process.

My point was in demonstrating that Zerinus's statement was not right. That sometimes "parting ways" can be good for a relationship, especially if reconciliation if found down the road.

[zerinus]

Man, it must be nice to have life be so simple....Everything is an either or

You can take that as you like. I stand by what I said.

[Senator]

First of all excommunication is not the same as voluntarily leaving the Church.

Eeh.....semantics. Whatever one does to warrant excommunication, it is done voluntarily.

Secondly, excommunication is a form of discipline. It is a chastisement. It is also a way of protecting the Church. And chastisement does not always do people good. Sometimes it does them no good at all!

But sometimes it does. And that is all I was showing. Your original statement was extreme.

[zerinus]

My point was in demonstrating that Zerinus's statement was not right. That sometimes "parting ways" can be good for a relationship, especially if reconciliation if found down the road.

If "reconciliation down the road" is a good thing, by what logic "irreconciliation" at any point is going to be a good thing? That is like saying that because repentance is a good thing, sinning must therefore also be a good thing, because it enables you to repent later on. Which is better, to sin and then have to repent, or not sin at all?

[blueadept]

But most of those that leave just stop coming, and after a while are forgotten about by the members.

I disagree with this in every way possible.

If it was true, when my father walked away and changed addresses multiple times, the missionaries should have lost contact. It's only through the official resignation process are they really forgotten from my experience.

[Senator]

If "reconciliation down the road" is a good thing, by what logic "irreconciliation" at any point is going to be a good thing? That is like saying that because repentance is a good thing, sinning must therefore also be a good thing, because it enables you to repent later on. Which is better, to sin and then have to repent, or not sin at all?

Talking of good, better, best is an unessasary expansion of the arguement.

But for the fun of it, in answer to your last question, I'd have to say, in light of the overall picture of our existance here, the former option has its merit.

[zerinus]

Eeh.....semantics. Whatever one does to warrant excommunication, it is done voluntarily.

Maybe, but excommunication is not the same as voluntarily leaving the Church.

But sometimes it does. And that is all I was showing. Your original statement was extreme.

The two situations are simply not equivalent. It is like saying that because putting criminals in jail has the effect of reforming some of them (though not all of them), therefore volunteering to go to jail (for what reason, I wouldn't know) must also be a good thing, because it might help you reform.

[mercyngrace]

If "reconciliation down the road" is a good thing, by what logic "irreconciliation" at any point is going to be a good thing? That is like saying that because repentance is a good thing, sinning must therefore also be a good thing, because it enables you to repent later on. Which is better, to sin and then have to repent, or not sin at all?

Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? ~ Alma

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. ~ Jesus Christ

[zerinus]

Talking of good, better, best is an unessasary expansion of the arguement.

But for the fun of it, in answer to your last question, I'd have to say, in light of the overall picture of our existance here, the former option has its merit.

Which former option? Why is leaving the Church for no good reason an option at all? Who wants or needs such an option?

[zerinus]

Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? ~ Alma

Are you recommending us to sin?