consiglieri Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 I am to emulate Jesus and Him alone.And Consiglieri on the weekends.
mercyngrace Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Try to get this into your head once, that I am not "judging" anybody; but I expressing my conviction that "leaving the Church" can not be a "good thing" for anybody.Says the fella gauging my "enthusiasm". LOL! Zerinus, I didn't even say anything about judging in that comment. Nothing at all.
Mortal Man Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 And sometimes the quickest way to be found, is to be lost.Dang mercy, you're on a roll today.Hey, when I get charged with heresy will you come defend me at the disciplinary council?
Libs Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 That's just it Zerinus, you and I have had experiences that offer another option. Other people may not have been so blessed and may feel that the hypocrisy of living a lifestyle they do not believe in is suffocating.If that is the case, I feel God will show them the same tender mercies He shows me because it isn't only our works that define us, but our thoughts, our desires, the intents of our hearts, and the context in which all those things play out. This is why Elder Whitney said that "only the fulness of knowledge brings the fulness of accountability".MercynGrace, I just wanted to say, again, how much I have enjoyed your posts. I believe you are truly inspired by the Spirit and have the heart of Christ. God bless you.I left the church over a lot of issues...polygamy, Book of Abraham, etc., and it was really heart-wrenching, because I loved the church. I tried to return a couple of times, but just felt like a hypocrite, being there, because my issues were not resolved. I don't think they ever will be, and I've grown to accept that. But, I do still love the people and I know most are sincere in their belief. I still have a strong believe in Christ as my Lord and Savior. For that, I am immensely grateful, because I know, many who leave, lose their faith altogether.
mercyngrace Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Dang mercy, you're on a roll today.Hey, when I get charged with heresy will you come defend me at the disciplinary council?You betcha
Sky Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 That's not the message I get from the Garden of Eden saga.I
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 MercynGrace, I just wanted to say, again, how much I have enjoyed your posts. I believe you are truly inspired by the Spirit and have the heart of Christ. God bless you.I think what mercyngrace is demonstrating is that a thorough understanding of the scriptures seen through the bounteous goodness of Jesus Christ breaks the chains of ignorance and spiritual niggardliness.Regardless of whether one is in or out of the LDS Church.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Mortal Man Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Which begs the question, why do you think you are right now but weren't then?I think we should just assume that I'm deceived by Satan as a result of all my recent sinning. Wouldn't you agree?
mercyngrace Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 MercynGrace, I just wanted to say, again, how much I have enjoyed your posts. I believe you are truly inspired by the Spirit and have the heart of Christ. God bless you.I left the church over a lot of issues...polygamy, Book of Abraham, etc., and it was really heart-wrenching, because I loved the church. I tried to return a couple of times, but just felt like a hypocrite, being there, because my issues were not resolved. I don't think they ever will be, and I've grown to accept that. But, I do still love the people and I know most are sincere in their belief. I still have a strong believe in Christ as my Lord and Savior. For that, I am immensely grateful, because I know, many who leave, lose their faith altogether. Thank you for the kind words, Libs. I want you to know that I mean every word and I'm glad, too, that your faith has withstood the challenges you've faced. That's an increasingly remarkable accomplishment these days.
mercyngrace Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I think what mercyngrace is demonstrating is that a thorough understanding of the scriptures seen through the bounteous goodness of Jesus Christ breaks the chains of ignorance and spiritual niggardliness.Regardless of whether one is in or out of the LDS Church.All the Best!--ConsiglieriWhat did you just call me?
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 What did you just call me?Does this mean no rep points tomorrow, either?
Sky Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 MercynGrace, I just wanted to say, again, how much I have enjoyed your posts. I believe you are truly inspired by the Spirit and have the heart of Christ. God bless you.I left the church over a lot of issues...polygamy, Book of Abraham, etc., and it was really heart-wrenching, because I loved the church. I tried to return a couple of times, but just felt like a hypocrite, being there, because my issues were not resolved. I don't think they ever will be, and I've grown to accept that. But, I do still love the people and I know most are sincere in their belief. I still have a strong believe in Christ as my Lord and Savior. For that, I am immensely grateful, because I know, many who leave, lose their faith altogether. For the record, Libs, I just wanted to say that I think it is wonderful that you have managed to retain your belief in Christ. Because my faith in Christ and in the LDS Church are so intertwined, I don't think I would be able to do this. I may disagree with your choice to leave the Church, but I wish you the best in all that you do anyway. I just wanted you to know that.
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I think we should just assume that I'm deceived by Satan as a result of all my recent sinning. Wouldn't you agree?Call me crazy, but I think it just possible that viewing a person's decision to leave the Church as the best decision for that particular person at that particular time may leave the door open a bit wider should they ever choose to return.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Mortal Man Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 You betcha Cool, thanks! BTW, you'll probably have to go up against Bill Hamblin; can you handle that?
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 For the record, Libs, I just wanted to say that I think it is wonderful that you have managed to retain your belief in Christ. Because my faith in Christ and in the LDS Church are so intertwined, I don't think I would be able to do this. I may disagree with your choice to leave the Church, but I wish you the best in all that you do anyway. I just wanted you to know that.Do you know how incredibly sad that statement is? That you would reject Christ, your Savior and Redeemer, if you found out the LDS Church wasn't what it claimed to be, is extraordinarily heartbreaking.
mercyngrace Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Does this mean no rep points tomorrow, either? Someday, we're going to have to take this routine on the road...
mercyngrace Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Cool, thanks! BTW, you'll probably have to go up against Bill Hamblin; can you handle that?We women have our ways....(I'll bake him something with a lot of chocolate.)
Sky Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Do you know how incredibly sad that statement is? That you would reject Christ, your Savior and Redeemer, if you found out the LDS Church wasn't what it claimed to be, is extraordinarily heartbreaking.Sad or not, it is what it is, and that's how I really feel. And I don't think it's far fetched to say that many LDS members would feel the same way.
Senator Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Someday, we're going to have to take this routine on the road...Can I drive you?
consiglieri Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Sad or not, it is what it is, and that's how I really feel. And I don't think it's far fetched to say that many LDS members would feel the same way.I understand how you feel, Sky. Really. And you are right that many LDS members would feel the same way.A lot of it comes from the way the Church sets itself up for a fall when people find out about the imperfections with Church leaders and problems with Church history. At least I know I have felt this way.A wise LDS professor once helped me put it into perspective. He said, "Most Mormons think of the Church as a perfectly divine institution, run directly by God, and only every now and then the human element intrudes. Instead, I see it as a mostly human organization, run by imperfect human beings, and only every now and then the divine element intrudes."His view made a lot of sense to me and has helped me through some rough patches.All the Best!--Consiglieri
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Sad or not, it is what it is, and that's how I really feel. And I don't think it's far fetched to say that many LDS members would feel the same way.Then your hearts are in the wrong place. Your focus should be on Jesus Christ, not a church, no matter if it is "the true and living church" or not.
TAO Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Then your hearts are in the wrong place. Your focus should be on Jesus Christ, not a church, no matter if it is "the true and living church" or not.BML... for us, there is no difference between them. We follow our feelings, given to us by Christ. They lead us to the Church.Even as a rather independent thinking sort of person, as a person who works his own way in life, I feel the same way as Sky; the church, and my experience with it is intimately tied with how I view Christ, and if the Church falls, I don't think I could look at Christ in quite the same way. Because I base my faith on personal experience, and not upon the words of others. It makes the arrow more true, but if it misses, much more difficult to correct.Either way, it is not for us to say what is or isn't a correct path for another. I view things in a way that is totally different than others, and so what others use to support themselves will not work for me. That is why it is so important for me to make my faith so strong - why it is so important to develop a technique to reflect criticisms away from myself - because I am a 'polar' - I either float, or sink, standing somewhere in the middle is not a place for me.For I do not have faith in the church - I have faith in Christ's church - which I know, is led by President Monson. I can say, people will make mistakes in the church, but I can in no way deny the position of prophecy President Monson has, for I know he holds it, and that he is Christ's and Father's servant upon the Earth. I know he holds the keys, and looks at the world in a different way then we do, and to turn around, and deny what Christ has given me would be very terrible indeed.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 <br>BML... for us, there is no difference between them. We follow our feelings, given to us by Christ. They lead us to the Church.<br><br>Even as a rather independent thinking sort of person, as a person who works his own way in life, I feel the same way as Sky; the church, and my experience with it is intimately tied with how I view Christ, and if the Church falls, I don't think I could look at Christ in quite the same way. Because I base my faith on personal experience, and not upon the words of others. It makes the arrow more true, but if it misses, much more difficult to correct.<br><br>Either way, it is not for us to say what is or isn't a correct path for another. I view things in a way that is totally different than others, and so what others use to support themselves will not work for me. That is why it is so important for me to make my faith so strong - why it is so important to develop a technique to reflect criticisms away from myself - because I am a 'polar' - I either float, or sink, standing somewhere in the middle is not a place for me.<br><br>For I do not have faith in the church - I have faith in Christ's church - which I know, is led by President Monson. I can say, people will make mistakes in the church, but I can in no way deny the position of prophecy President Monson has, for I know he holds it, and that he is Christ's and Father's servant upon the Earth. I know he holds the keys, and looks at the world in a different way then we do, and to turn around, and deny what Christ has given me would be very terrible indeed.<br><br><br>I see it completely opposite...<br><br>I put my full faith and reliance in Jesus Christ, and Him alone. The church is merely a vehicle to help me along life's journey to know the commandments and ordinances that are pleasing to Him, and gives me a place to fellowship with other believers. If that church turns out to be bunk it in no way affects my belief and faith in my Master, I just chalk it up to experience, dust myself off and pray for further enlightenment.
TAO Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I see it completely opposite...I put my full faith and reliance in Jesus Christ, and Him alone. The church is merely a vehicle to help me along life's journey to know the commandments and ordinances that are pleasing to Him, and gives me a place to fellowship with other believers. If that church turns out to be bunk it in no way affects my belief and faith in my Master, I just chalk it up to experience, dust myself off and pray for further enlightenment.*shrugs* I haven't found it to be bunk, that I haven't.
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