Theological Twinkies

[LifeOnaPlate]

The thread about guilt in the Church got me thinking about pseudo-doctrine, or what Elder Holland called "theological twinkies." I want to compile a collection of these items, if possible, so please add ones you have heard. Quotes, stories, parables, sayings, etc. that you believe fall short, are overused, etc.

Some examples include:

The lesson of the "licked cupcakes"

Today's youth being Generals in the War in Heaven

The little boy who sees birds, telling him to go to the temple

The boy on the train tracks whose father has to choose to kill him to save the lives of those on the train

"I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it"

Elder Holland:

When crises come in our lives--and they will--the philosophies of men interlaced with a few scriptures and poems just won't do. Are we really nurturing our youth and our new members in a way that will sustain them when the stresses of life appear? Or are we giving them a kind of theological Twinkie--spiritually empty calories? President John Taylor once called such teaching "fried froth," the kind of thing you could eat all day and yet finish feeling totally unsatisfied (General Conference, April 1998).

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

The little boy who sees birds, telling him to go to the temple

[...]

This one actually might have a little bit of truth to it (Lloyd Glenn).

[BCSpace]

The notion that women are somehow more spiritual than men is another bit of Mormon Mythology.

[The Nehor]

Saturday's Warriors

[Doctor Steuss]

That G-d helps find car keys.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The lesson of the "licked cupcakes"

Today's youth being Generals in the War in Heaven

The little boy who sees birds, telling him to go to the temple

The boy on the train tracks whose father has to choose to kill him to save the lives of those on the train

"I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it"

Elder Holland:

I have heard of some of these but not the bird story or the train story. Ill have to think on this and see if I can remember these from my youth. I dont listen to this stuff for the very reason that Elder Holland gave, so they dont stick in my brain.

[The Nehor]

That G-d helps find car keys.

I have no problem with him doing so; I'm just not sure he's responsible every time everyone gives him credit for it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The notion that women are somehow more spiritual than men is another bit of Mormon Mythology.

Oh, I know more women in heaven the man, so that is why there is polygamy.

That G-d helps find car keys.

I may get ridculed for this, But I disagree. I think God can help you find things if you ask.

Saturday's Warriors

THats good, Its like people saying your were less obediant so that is why you werent born mormon or even born black. Total nonsense.

[cdowis]

Pleeze spare me, but my wife loves this sort of stuff.

Two people are waiting to go into a room to be judged. The first goes in and tells the person about his life. He is shown a certain door.

The second person goes into the room, and then throws himself down, recognizing the Lord.

The first knows about the Lord, the other knows the Lord himself.

++++++++++++++++++++++

The old "footprints in the sand" story. Person looks at his life and sees two sets of footpriints as the Lord is walking beside him. At one point there is only one set of footprints.

"Why did you abandon me at my greatest hour of need?"

"I did not abandon you, my son. I picked you up and carried you."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And, of course, "what would Jesus do".

Would he join the Marines and kill terrorists, for example.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Saturday's Warriors

Another thought on this is the story of the 2 freinds in premortal exsistance, One is told he is going to a nice loveing family and born LDS in the US, the other is told he is going to go to some 3rd world country and live a life of poverty and broken families. The 2nd one gets really scared and says he doesnt want to go, then the first says dont worry I find you.

[Olavarria]

Here is one that fries me to no end, but I dont have the guts to correct:

plural marriage was instituted in Utah by BY because all the mormon men died on the trek and from the mobs. sigh....that just aint true.

IN regards to Elder Holland's comment, I think far too many youth and YSA's in the Church have an insufficient understanding of doctrine. We just don't have a sufficient grasp on the nature of God, the plan of salvation, the atonement etc.

Sometimes I think that our teaching in regards to YSA's and Mutaual age kids is a little superficial. Im not saying that we should have classes on "infinite regression of Gods" but people really need to understand The Plan, true nature of Diety & Man and the ATonement.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I heard this once...That President Hinckley is the last prophet, when he dies Christ will come.

[The Nehor]

That guardian angels follow us around all day and night.

The idea that we contribute anything to our salvation (we just qualify for it)

Righteousness = Wealth and it's corollary that being born into wealth is proof of PreMortal righteousness (I was born into wealth and think I alone disprove this )

Diet Coke is as bad as crack cocaine.

That you can be obese (without preexisting medical problems) and be living the Word of Wisdom.

[Paul Ray]

The thread about guilt in the Church got me thinking about pseudo-doctrine, or what Elder Holland called "theological twinkies." I want to compile a collection of these items, if possible, so please add ones you have heard. Quotes, stories, parables, sayings, etc. that you believe fall short, are overused, etc.

Some examples include:

The lesson of the "licked cupcakes"

Today's youth being Generals in the War in Heaven

The little boy who sees birds, telling him to go to the temple

The boy on the train tracks whose father has to choose to kill him to save the lives of those on the train

"I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it"

I would add these thoughts to a list of doctrines that do not satisfy, at least me:

The scriptures tell us everything God wants us to know.

In prayer, God will only teach us about what we already know, beforehand.

All the work of God regarding our salvation has already been done. God is finished.

People who earn a degree in theology know more about God than people who haven't.

Mormons are Morons.

Mormons aren't really Christians.

Mormons need to be Evangelical Christians to be saved.

I think I'm getting sick now. I'll be back with more later.

[cdowis]

Thanks for the thread. I really needed to get this out of my system.

Now if we could do something about the smooze music. La La La La La La La...... Hooo hooo hooo hooo....

[John Williams]

THats good, Its like people saying your were less obediant so that is why you werent born mormon or even born black. Total nonsense.

So the First Presidency taught nonsense?

As for the Saturday's Warrior doctrine of knowing your mate before you were born, Joseph Smith seems to have believed something like that. He told Mary Rollins Lightner that she was his before the world was and he told another plural wife that she was created for him. I don't have the reference in front of me, but I'll look it up when I get home.

[The Nehor]

And, of course, "what would Jesus do".

I don't have the mind of Jesus....if I do, I wouldn't need pithy slogans.

I prefer "What would Cthulu do?" I have a shirt to that effect. It's easy to figure out what to do. Destroy all of creation. So much cleaner.

[cdowis]

As for the Saturday's Warrior doctrine of knowing your mate before you were born, Joseph Smith seems to have believed something like that. He told Mary Rollins Lightner that she was his before the world was and he told another plural wife that she was created for him. I don't have the reference in front of me, but I'll look it up when I get home.

No reference needed. Her diary talks about the first time she met JS as a young girl. Wow.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

So the First Presidency taught nonsense?

As for the Saturday's Warrior doctrine of knowing your mate before you were born, Joseph Smith seems to have believed something like that. He told Mary Rollins Lightner that she was his before the world was and he told another plural wife that she was created for him. I don't have the reference in front of me, but I'll look it up when I get home.

I dont know that is what the 1st presidency is saying. Do you have a full in context quote to offer?

Also in regards to JS, I believe this qualifies as an opinion. I sure havent seen any doctrine and it isnt nessecarly in the scriptures.

[The Nehor]

So the First Presidency taught nonsense?

As for the Saturday's Warrior doctrine of knowing your mate before you were born, Joseph Smith seems to have believed something like that. He told Mary Rollins Lightner that she was his before the world was and he told another plural wife that she was created for him. I don't have the reference in front of me, but I'll look it up when I get home.

Yes, they did.

The Saturday's Warrior doctrine might be right in some cases but it falls apart when you think it over logically. What if someone picks the wrong spouse. Chain reaction leading to no one getting who they should. How many marriages (even within the Church) are entered into under divine inspiration? Plus people have changed since Premortality. My favorite mythical exchange.

"I've received a revelation that we agreed to marry each other before we came here."

"Well, I'm certainly not going to make that mistake twice."

[John Williams]

I dont know that is what the 1st presidency is saying. Do you have a full in context quote to offer?

The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

August 17, 1949

The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time. The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to."

President Wilford Woodruff made the following statement: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have."

The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes.

Thus, people were born black based on their conduct in the premortal existence.

[Paul Ray]

Thanks for the thread. I really needed to get this out of my system.

Now if we could do something about the smooze music. La La La La La La La...... Hooo hooo hooo hooo....

Doctor Steuss is in the house.

Give us a diddly, Doc.

Er, uh, hmm, I thought he was.

Nevermind.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Thus, people were born black based on their conduct in the premortal existence.

Actually it is only hinted at in the statment. Lets look "and that while the details of this principle have not been made known" They prohpets clearly do not have enough to make a final conclusion on it. And even if they did, I can still be entitled to my opinion can I not?

[John Williams]

Actually it is only hinted at in the statment. Lets look "and that while the details of this principle have not been made known" They prohpets clearly do not have enough to make a final conclusion on it. And even if they did, I can still be entitled to my opinion can I not?

Well, sure. I was just objecting to the idea that this was some sort of folk doctrine.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well, sure. I was just objecting to the idea that this was some sort of folk doctrine.

Oh, very well. I defanitly think that the idea of a soul mate is false. The idea that you are destined to marry a spacific person. My wife thinks this way sometimes. It drives me nuts.