The Seed of Abraham - the people of God whom He foreknew

[telnetd]

In Romans 11:1–2 Paul outlined God’s relationship with the seed of Abraham. What did 
Paul mean when he said that God “foreknew” His people? Paul also indicated that some 
people were chosen in Christ “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4). 
This statement suggests that many were called in the premortal world and chosen to 
receive special blessings contingent upon their faithfulness. These special blessings 
assume at least two dimensions.

First, wrote Elder McConkie, “this election to a chosen lineage is based on pre-
existent worthiness and is thus made ‘according to the foreknowledge of God.’ (1 Pet. 
1:2.)” Elder McConkie explained that “to bring to pass the salvation of the greatest 
possible number of his spirit children the Lord, in general, sends the most righteous 
and worthy spirits to earth through the lineage of Abraham and Jacob. This course is 
a manifestation of his grace or in other words his love, mercy, and condescension 
toward his children.” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 216.) Thus, those born into the lineage of 
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have through the centuries heard the testimony of prophets, 
had access to the sacred scriptures and ordinances, and been at the forefront of the 
work of God upon the earth. (See Harold B. Lee, in Conference Report, Oct. 1973, pp. 
7–8; or Ensign, Jan. 1974, p. 5.)

Second, “as part of this election, Abraham and others of the noble and great spirits 
were chosen before they were born for the particular missions assigned them in this 
life” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 216). Doctrine and Covenants 138:56 indicates 
that the noble and great ones “received their first lessons in the world of spirits 
and were prepared to come forth in the due time of the Lord … for the salvation of 
the souls of men” (see also Abraham 3:22–23; Jeremiah 1:4–5).
(Religion 430 and 431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, chapter 19).

Are the seed of Cain considered part of this "seed of Abraham", whom are classified as God's
people whom He foreknew?

[The Nehor]

The people in Romans 11:2 that God foreknew are Israel or the Jews. It was not intended to refer to any form of preexistent or premortal state.

[Pyreaux]

Based on both biblical chronology and Latter-day Saint theology, the short answer is no. Cain and Abraham belong to completely different lines and eras. Cain was the firstborn son of Adam, while Abraham is a direct descendant of Seth. Therefore, anyone tracking Eve's promised lineage is looking at an entirely separate branch of the human family tree than the lineage of Cain.

In a sense, God the Father "foreknew" every spirit before they came to earth. He chose a lineage to carry the priesthood, the scriptures, and the gospel ordinances to the rest of the world and the firstborn as a savior would be born in the exact time and circumstance. The Jewish premortal existence was the Guf has much in common with Latter-day Saint concepts of the premortal existence than it does with Calvinist predestination. A pre-existing storehouse or community of conscious spirits waiting in a specific order for their turn on Earth. 

Wisdom of Solomon 8:19–20, Solomon explicitly describes himself as having a good, noble soul before he was ever given a physical body, "As a child I was naturally gifted, and a good soul fell to my lot; or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body."

Notice the order of operations, "being good, I entered..." Solomon is explicitly stating that his spirit, his "goodness," was already developed before he descended. He did not start as a blank slate at birth; his spirit already possessed individual identity and nobility that entered the noble body, his "undefiled" house.

LDS doctrine teaches the premortal life, individuals developed there and some were foreordained (appointed or set apart based on their faithfulness) to fulfill specific missions or roles during their mortal lives. Not destined to be fulfilled, per se. 

In both traditions, your soul did not pop into existence out of nothingness at the moment of your physical conception. You existed somewhere specific in the heavenly realm, waiting for a physical body.

LDS theology also emphasizes that lineage is not a guarantee of salvation, neither is it a barrier. According to teachings from Joseph Smith and subsequent church leaders, anyone of any lineage who accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ and receives the proper ordinances is spiritually adopted into the seed of Abraham.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ... And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:27, 29)

Edited 13 hours ago by Pyreaux

[telnetd]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

In a sense, God the Father "foreknew" every spirit before they came to earth. He chose a lineage to carry the priesthood, the scriptures

What lineage and what priesthood?

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

What lineage and what priesthood?

The Covenant House of Israel (by blood or adoption), and the priesthood after the order of the Son of God. The most ancient, everlasting authority designed before the foundation of the world to bring Adam's children back home.

When Genesis says that through Abraham's seed "all the nations of the earth will be blessed," isn't just that Christ would come out of that lineage, it's was the priesthood authority to bind on earth and in heaven would be preserved and offered to every soul through that priesthood. Heirs foreordained and elected to bear the priesthood and the missionary responsibility to the rest of the world.

"And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father; ...and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood) ... shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal." (Abraham 2:10–11)

Edited 21 hours ago by Pyreaux

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

while Abraham is a direct descendant of Seth

What descendant is not a direct descendant?

[Pyreaux]

28 minutes ago, Calm said:

What descendant is not a direct descendant?

Cain and the Cainites. If you mean after Noah, there is our folk doctrine about Egyptus and in Jewish lore of surviving Cainites / Nephilim like King Og and the Rephaim. Some silly ideas but interesting how even the ancient Israelites thought that the scriptures allowed for there to be other people that weren't considered men / adams. Like the "beasts" of Ninevah. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Pyreaux

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Cain and the Cainites. If you mean after Noah, there is our folk doctrine about Egyptus and in Jewish lore of surviving Cainites / Nephilim like King Og and the Rephaim. Some silly ideas but interesting how even the ancient Israelites thought that the scriptures allowed for there to be other people that weren't considered men / adams. Like the "beasts" of Ninevah. 

The Rephaim appear to have been demigod heroes. Later they were portrayed as giants and became villains. This probably coincided with Israel’s slow switch from polytheism towards monolatry as the Rephaim as demigod heroes no longer fit well with the new theology so they became enemies to be conquered.

Also while the Israelites made a big deal of who was a descendant of whom if this is at all a representation of any kind of actual history they intermarried and everyone was a direct descendants of everyone.

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

the "beasts" of Ninevah

And, "The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies" (Titus 1:12), which is a quote from Epimenides of Knossos, from the work Cretica.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Cain and the Cainites. If you mean after Noah, there is our folk doctrine about Egyptus and in Jewish lore of surviving Cainites / Nephilim like King Og and the Rephaim. Some silly ideas but interesting how even the ancient Israelites thought that the scriptures allowed for there to be other people that weren't considered men / adams. Like the "beasts" of Ninevah. 

No, I am thinking of the actual definition.  Every descendant in my view is a direct descendant; direct descendant means the exact same thing as descendant, doesn’t it?  There is no need to add “direct” unless there is an additional condition attached.  I am wondering if you are assuming a condition that I am not aware of for the term.

Chat did the calculations for me, so pure speculation, but it might be sometime in the 13-15 century that Abraham became an ancestor of the majority of people outside of the Americas and Australia and by now likely everywhere outside of highly isolated populations (and even there it only takes one descendant to mix with those communities to spread the connection throughout their members over a few centuries).

Edited 16 hours ago by Calm

[The Nehor]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

No, I am thinking of the actual definition.  Every descendant in my view is a direct descendant; direct descendant means the exact same thing as descendant, doesn’t it?  There is no need to add “direct” unless there is an additional condition attached.  I am wondering if you are assuming a condition that I am not aware of for the term.

Yeah, there is no sure thing as an indirect descendant. I suppose you could use it as referring to an uncle or something but you aren’t their descendant in any sense nor are they your ancestor.

[Pyreaux]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

No, I am thinking of the actual definition.  Every descendant in my view is a direct descendant; direct descendant means the exact same thing as descendant, doesn’t it?  There is no need to add “direct” unless there is an additional condition attached.  I am wondering if you are assuming a condition that I am not aware of for the term.

But when we are talking about covenant seed, the priesthood, and the way scripture handles inheritances, "direct" changes everything. An additional condition attached, it denotes unbroken transmission. In ancient law there is a massive difference between a direct descendant and a collateral descendant which travels sideways through brothers, uncles, and cousins. Every person on earth after the flood was a descendant of Adam and Noah, yet but the priesthood from there didn't scatter randomly to everyone. They were passed down a line of "firstborn" (righteous) heirs. If direct descendant just meant any biological relative, anyone could claim the right. Adding the word "direct" establishes an unbroken link of transmission.

Ishmael and Esau are the ultimate examples. Biologically, they are direct descendants of Abraham. But covenantally, God told Abraham that the covenant would be established through Isaac (Genesis 17:21). Ishmael became the father of another great nation, but his line diverted from the specific patriarchal priesthood lineage of Israel. Ishmael and Esau are not regarded as possessing the direct line of the priesthood.

[Kenngo1969]

Let's start with being upfront about what you're quoting here, @telnetd.  Where are you getting this information?  Frankly, while others' mileage may vary [and likely does vary], in my book, tossing out a random quote, even, or especially, a random quote without attribution, is poor form.  For example, "First, wrote Elder McConkie ..." according to whom?  Thanks in advance!  

Edited 6 hours ago by Kenngo1969