Troubling Allegations Against Former Sheriff in Pinal County, AZ (Church mbr)

[Vanguard]

 I haven't yet heard a good enough argument for why men should not be categorically viewed in the ways we have been discussing. I agree all women should show some degree of being 'consciously cautious' when around men for 2 reasons - 1) generally speaking, men are physically stronger than women are; and 2) an unacceptably high number of men demonstrate a proclivity for using that strength to their own advantage and to the great detriment of women's' well-being. I can't imagine I would be any different if I were in a woman's shoes. I do, however, believe it is better viewed that 'women should always be aware and vigilant of their surroundings when around the opposite sex' rather than 'women should view all men as potential rapists'. The latter phraseology seems overwrought and not helpful in the way intended. The vast majority of women are also murdered at the hands of men though I don't think anyone is advocating women should therefore view all men as potential murderers?

Edited 21 hours ago by Vanguard

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

 I haven't yet heard a good enough argument for why men should not be categorically viewed in the ways we have been discussing. I agree all women should show some degree of being 'consciously cautious' when around men for 2 reasons - 1) generally speaking, men are physically stronger than women are; and 2) an unacceptably high number of men demonstrate a proclivity for using that strength to their own advantage and to the great detriment of women's' well-being. I can't imagine I would be any different if I were in a woman's shoes. I do, however, believe it is better viewed that 'women should always be aware and vigilant of their surroundings when around the opposite sex' rather than 'women should view all men as potential rapists'. The latter phraseology seems overwrought and not helpful in the way intended. The vast majority of women are also murdered at the hands of men though I don't think anyone is advocating women should therefore view all men as potential murderers?

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

'women should always be aware and vigilant of their surroundings when around the opposite sex' rather than 'women should view all men as potential rapists'.

Which do you think young women are more likely to pay attention enough to change their own behaviour to safer practices?

Serious question as very curious about others’ experiences.

Edited 19 hours ago by Calm

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Vanguard said:

The vast majority of women are also murdered at the hands of men though I don't think anyone is advocating women should therefore view all men as potential murderers?

It goes without saying that when a woman says something to the effect of “all men are potential rapists“ the “and also potential murderers” part is assumed.

So is stuff like “all men are potential stalkers“ and“ all men are potential abusive spouses“ and “all men are potential kidnappers” and “all men are potential sexual molesters“. Etc, etc.

Because when a woman says “all men are potential rapists“ it’s just shorthand for “all men are potentially dangerous”.

So any way that a man could be dangerous to a woman, just assume from now on that that is included in the anxiety that drives the sentiment.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

It goes without saying that when a woman says something to the effect of “all men are potential rapists“ the “and also potential murderers” part is assumed.

With my brain these days, the ending often doesn’t sink in until the second time I read the post because I am already too focused on something said earlier.  And I missed this and shouldn’t have.

Vanguard, this is not me wanting to attack you and I hope it doesn’t come across that way.  Bluebell is right in this phrase is shorthand covering the spectrum of sexual and other forms of physical violence too many  (but thankfully not a majority) men perpetuate on others (rape and certainly other forms of violence are not limited to women).

If you didn’t realize this—and from your argument for why it made less sense to use “potential rapists” you are not that informed about how many women think and view the world.  I highly suggest familiarizing yourself with more women’s POV, especially those who don’t know you and who are writing or speaking generally if you want to make public judgments about how women think and should think like you just did.

Being blunt here because this saddens me, but I also feel kind of insulted that you feel comfortable enough to tell us how we should speak about our feelings when you don’t know them very well even after reading what we have discussed on this thread about our experiences in a variety of situations as well as referred to others’ experiences in even more. We weren’t just talking about the experience of rape.  It seems odd to me you assumed that was how the statement was being used when you had explanations that it was meant to alert women to be cautious in any situation until she knew she didn’t need to be.

 You expressing it wasn’t appropriate and we should alter how we warn and support each other would be like a friend telling you to go work for some guy who cheated and lied about you with your friend saying he is not a bad guy and it would be good for you right after you had told him the guy stole your life savings and told the police you tried to steal from him causing them to arrest you. 

This analogy is meant to be narrowly applied and is not intended in the least to suggest that any woman feels like every man is a liar and a cheat just in case someone is tempted to take it that way.  It’s about being given advice by someone who didn’t listen very well or hasn’t yet processed what they read yet and you are not the only one on the thread doing this…and all of you are well meaning and interested in helping, I have no doubt.

Quote

The latter phraseology seems overwrought and not helpful in the way intended.

Have you been in a room with women, especially young women, when the speaker says this in order to get the listeners to pay attention and start recognizing they need to be careful around every man until they actually know better and not trust first until proven wrong?

It certainly penetrated my brain deeper when I heard it and helped me recognize I was still being dismissive about my own concerns and experiences, treating them as if they were just humorous pranks played on me with me feeling guilty I didn’t allow myself to be around these guys after it occurred.  I was even ashamed I resorted to telling one of them my dad wouldn’t let me date him because I didn’t want to be pressured by him any more (we were in high school).  I realized once I started participating in discussions that included the warning “potential rapist” that it was actually quite smart that I distanced myself from them and in the one case (the one who disable the car) brought up my dad being involved and how mad he would be if I told my dad this guy had fooled around with the car.

And I had already heard for decades and practiced to some extent eventually basic situational awareness and preparation…with strangers in empty or isolated spaces.  I see it as very useful in the right context.

Not saying it was all I needed to hear or that it was the best help I ever got, but it did jar loose some stuck attitudes and ideas in my head that I hadn’t really challenged even though given what happened to me, I can’t imagine why I didn’t…the only thing I can think of was it was leftover ideas from the arrogance of my youth when I thought I was knowledgable enough my self analyzing was spot on.  I hadn’t learned yet everyone has trouble seeing their own issues even with training.

Edited 13 hours ago by Calm

[The Nehor]

On 6/1/2026 at 2:13 PM, smac97 said:

If "all men are potential rapists" is intended as mere rhetorical hyperbole, intended to garner attention rather than be construed literally, and if "treat all {men when in vulnerable circumstances} as a potential threat" is a more apt construction of the intended (and apparently agreed-upon) sentiment, then I think we agree far more than we disagree. 

It is not rhetorical hyperbole.

On 6/1/2026 at 2:13 PM, smac97 said:

I continue to have concern about the hyperbole having the unintended effect of demoralizing and alienating young men.  I also continue to have concern about the hyperbole unintentionally creating an unhealthy environment for women.  

Why do you seem to be worried more about the idea that men might feel bad when they find out men as a category are responsible for the overwhelming majority of cases of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape over and above the victims of those acts? Men should take that reality seriously and act to change it. If a man’s response is to get huffy and offended they really don’t sound like they possess much in the way of virtue or empathy at all.

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 I haven't yet heard a good enough argument for why men should not be categorically viewed in the ways we have been discussing. I agree all women should show some degree of being 'consciously cautious' when around men for 2 reasons - 1) generally speaking, men are physically stronger than women are; and 2) an unacceptably high number of men demonstrate a proclivity for using that strength to their own advantage and to the great detriment of women's' well-being. I can't imagine I would be any different if I were in a woman's shoes. I do, however, believe it is better viewed that 'women should always be aware and vigilant of their surroundings when around the opposite sex' rather than 'women should view all men as potential rapists'. The latter phraseology seems overwrought and not helpful in the way intended. The vast majority of women are also murdered at the hands of men though I don't think anyone is advocating women should therefore view all men as potential murderers?

No, they often have to view them as potentially dangerous in terms of regular physical assault and murder too. It is kind of lumped together.

[MustardSeed]

10 hours ago, Vanguard said:

The vast majority of women are also murdered at the hands of men though I don't think anyone is advocating women should therefore view all men as potential murderers?

My attacker told the judge his intention was to rape me, murder me and leave me in the river. 

I’m wondering if there’s a misunderstanding here - 

personally, I don’t have concerns that every man has latent within him a quiet rapist who could potentially surface.  
 

Rather  what I’m saying is that without any reassurance of safety, I have to protect myself from every man via being on alert  because I could get seriously  hurt.  I  have less power than most men and I can’t discern my level of safety without more information, and That Takes Time.  Even then, sometimes, that’s not enough.  
 

“Every man is a potential rapist” can be  interpreted both ways.  I certainly don’t mean the first.  
 

(maybe the first has some elements of truth in that we are all capable of evil but in my mind  that’s beyond the scope of this conversation and can definitely see how upsetting that could be to hear, more so than the second .) 

 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

My attacker told the judge his intention was to rape me, murder me and leave me in the river. 

I’m wondering if there’s a misunderstanding here - 

personally, I don’t have concerns that every man has latent within him a quiet rapist who could potentially surface.  
 

Rather  what I’m saying is that without any reassurance of safety, I have to protect myself from every man via being on alert  because I could get seriously  hurt.  I  have less power than most men and I can’t discern my level of safety without more information, and That Takes Time.  Even then, sometimes, that’s not enough.  
 

“Every man is a potential rapist” can be  interpreted both ways.  I certainly don’t mean the first.  
 

(maybe the first has some elements of truth in that we are all capable of evil but in my mind  that’s beyond the scope of this conversation and can definitely see how upsetting that could be to hear, more so than the second .) 

 

That's a good distinction that some on here might not have realized or wanted to consider:  we are not saying that every man has a rapist inside of him that he could decide to let out at any minute. We aren't saying that men's natures are evil and that's why they can't be trusted.

[Tony uk]

I have noticed at time some women, have a dislike of people walking behind them. In certain cases men. 

[Calm]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Men should take that reality seriously and act to change it. If a man’s response is to get huffy and offended they really don’t sound like they possess much in the way of virtue or empathy at all.

Lacking in empathy, yes.  Wouldn’t say the same thing about virtue.  I have known men that were lacking in empathy, saw the world in pretty much one way or at least talked that way, so impossible to know if they understood others’ experiences as others did, but they were also among the most generous, kind people I knew, devoting much of their lives and resources to helping others….sometimes very effectively, others not so much since they didn’t understand what the real need was.

My guesses….One of these men would likely get huffy and offended by this discussion, the other would just blow it off as not relating to him unless he was in a mood to mindpick.