What would 2 Nephi 25:23 mean if you changed one word?

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Aw shucks! But my turbocharged Type A personality enjoys engaging in over-the-top gesticulating while I’m teaching, something I’m unable to do while commenting on this board! So I do the next best thing which is to engage in over-the-top bolding, capitalizing, highlighting, enlarging and making excessive use of exclamation marks!!!

 

You made me laugh.  Thank you (so did JVW with his last post)

I am now imagining you as one of my professors who liked big gestures.

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

In fact, after the fall we would have been so totally bereft of any internal goodness that we would have been powerless to prevent ourselves from being unavoidably drawn down into the spiritual black hole of hell where we would have all become devils (beings in which there is no goodness).

Why would we be so totally bereft of any internal goodness?  Why would we be subject to the devil? Not trying to be annoying, just curious about if anyone else has ever thought about this (I have a lot, what is the ultimate nature of man, etc) and if they have come up with anything.

Edited January 26 by Calm

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

But young children can be kind even when they haven’t be told to, I have seen abused children be thoughtful and kind to others (of course, they may have learned that by watching someone besides their abusive parent, it might not be a natural impulse).  Even a toddler will share food or toys at times.

I am curious if a child was brought up in a completely hostile or indifferent environment except for being provided what they need to survive (if it could survive) could demonstrate kindness and it be real kindness and not manipulation.  I see animals do good things to others, care for others, so there seems to me a natural/instinctual component to at least some level of kindness, which I would call good.

And maybe a hostile or indifferent universe is the crux of the reasoning and saying all good comes from God is not just a religious identifier in scripture demonstrating humility and gratitude to God.  Maybe the universe is actually inherently hostile or indifferent and only by God’s intercession can our lives be touched by things of beauty, love, and compassion, so only through him can we actually learn how to desire to be good and do good actions.

Since there is no way to get away from the light of Christ, I don’t think such an experiment would be possible (leaving out it being completely immoral to do that to a child of course) but I agree it would be very interesting to know how a human would respond with only neutral or negative influences. I’ve always wondered. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Since there is no way to get away from the light of Christ, I don’t think such an experiment would be possible (leaving out it being completely immoral to do that to a child of course) but I agree it would be very interesting to know how a human would respond with only neutral or negative influences. I’ve always wondered. 

Yes, there are bits of knowledge I want to know, but if I think about it I really just want to have the fact magically appear rather than anyone actually having to go through horror to come up with the result.

[JVW]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Why would we be so totally bereft of any internal goodness?  Why would we be subject to the devil? Not trying to be annoying, just curious about if anyone else has ever thought about this (I have a lot, what is the ultimate nature of man, etc) and if they have come up with anything.

This is a really interesting question that I haven't thought about at all, but you got my mind grapes juicing so here's my preliminary thoughts.

From the devil's view God is dead. There is no God in the devil's world. To take it even one step farther (and this opinion is qualified because of all of the Korean comics I've read, which a surprising amount have Satanic themes) the devil killed God in his world. He is not the loser in his mind, he is the victor. If one is cut off from God's presence then God is dead to that person, or there is no God in their world. God is the one who defines what is good and we can either accept or reject His definition. You mention that animals do good things sometimes. It could be argued that evil people do good things as well. If you want an example of this let me know, but I hope we can generally agree that evil people on Earth have done good too.

Now, using God's definition, He says that you can't worship God and mammon (money), so He puts money in opposition to the Father. This means that those who worship money are evil and, whether they intentionally do it or not, are following the devil. They have the bitter fountain, the rotten fruit, etc. In addition to this, those who break the Ten Commandments are committing evil acts, whether it's committing murder or not putting God first. All of these judgments and definitions are from the Holy Bible, they are presumably God's definition of what constitutes a good or evil thought, feeling, action, etc.

Getting back to the animals doing good things. They seem to be good things, because you judge them as such based off of your understanding of what is good, which is based on God's definition. We can sit and argue about whether good can be objectively reasoned to without religion, but the fact is that religion is baked in everywhere, and patterns of what are good and evil overlap in all major world religions and personal views. The golden rule being a prime example of this.

Now, boiling all of this down to the worldview of the LDS (because we've been quoting the BoM) God has defined all truth, light, and goodness into one being who is Jesus Christ. He is in all things and through all things, etc. etc.

Now what if God is dead? What if there is no God? Who defines what is good? If there is no God in the devil's world, there is no Jesus, and there is no source of good. The devil defines what is good, but any definition of good that is bereft of Jesus Christ is not in alignment with reality. Therefore those who cut themselves off from God are bereft of any internal goodness.

As far as why we would become subject to the devil I don't really have any thoughts on that yet. My initial inkling of a thought is basically that the devil is more powerful than me, so if I die the second death and have no God then Satan would come to subject me and if I fought with every ounce of strength I had I could not win against him. The devil has had a long time to increase his strength without God's support. Whereas I spent all my eternity with God, and am supported by Him in mortality, so if He left me I'd be like a little baby compared to Satan the mature body builder.

You are asking some tricky questions!

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, JVW said:

hope we can generally agree that evil people on Earth have done good too.

I agree.

I will think on what else you said. Interesting ideas. 

[GoCeltics]

On 1/25/2026 at 10:30 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

I don't think it is possible to do any of those things without Christ's grace to begin with.

Yes, grace is necessary from the start. However, Moroni 10:32 also speaks to certain conditions that must be met before grace becomes sufficient.

[GoCeltics]

On 1/23/2026 at 12:20 PM, bluebell said:

He even quotes Elder McConkie to double down on incorrectness of the idea that the term salvation used in the scriptures doesn't mean exaltation:

What is salvation in Alma 11:40-41?

[GoCeltics]

On 1/23/2026 at 2:16 PM, InCognitus said:

You know already (because we have discussed this), the "righteous" are defined within the context of that parable as those who followed the behavior of the Savior during their life by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, etc. etc.

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

Does “life eternal” refer specifically to eternal life, or does it simply mean immortality?

[InCognitus]

7 minutes ago, GoCeltics said:

Yes, grace is necessary from the start. However, Moroni 10:32 also speaks to certain conditions that must be met before grace becomes sufficient.

Moroni 10:32 is talking about perfection, not salvation.

[InCognitus]

5 minutes ago, GoCeltics said:

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

Does “life eternal” refer specifically to eternal life, or does it simply mean immortality?

Eternal life and life eternal are exactly the same thing, but immortality is something different.  All are resurrected to immortality (1 Corinthians 15:53-54), but receiving eternal life is to receive God's life, the kind of life that God lives.

 

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

Yes, grace is necessary from the start. However, Moroni 10:32 also speaks to certain conditions that must be met before grace becomes sufficient.

God isn't going to save or to exalt anyone against that person's will.  I'm not exactly sure what's newsworthy or particularly controversial about that.

[GoCeltics]

On 1/28/2026 at 2:43 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

God isn't going to save or to exalt anyone against that person's will.  I'm not exactly sure what's newsworthy or particularly controversial about that.

Is God’s grace sufficient for a thief before salvation or perfection, or must the person first meet the conditions described in Moroni 10:32?

[GoCeltics]

On 1/28/2026 at 11:07 AM, InCognitus said:

Moroni 10:32 is talking about perfection, not salvation.

According to teachings in “Perfection Pending” (October 1995 General Conference), perfection encompasses both resurrection and exaltation. Jesus and Heavenly Father achieved perfection following their resurrection, but ultimately perfection is understood as exaltation.

That Jesus attained eternal perfection following His resurrection is confirmed in the Book of Mormon. It records the visit of the resurrected Lord to the people of ancient America. There He repeated the important injunction previously cited but with one very significant addition. He said, “I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.” This time He listed Himself along with His Father as a perfected personage. Previously He had not.

Eternal perfection is reserved for those who overcome all things and inherit the fulness of the Father in His heavenly mansions. Perfection consists in gaining eternal life—the kind of life that God lives.

Another is found in “Scripture Helps: New Testament.”

“The perfection that the Savior envisions for us is much more than errorless performance. It is the eternal expectation … that we might be made perfect and be able to dwell with [God and Jesus Christ] in the eternities ahead.

Joseph Smith learned that those who inherit the celestial kingdom are those who are “just [individuals] made perfect through Jesus.”

 

The closest references I could find in LDS scripture are Doctrine and Covenants 76:50 69 and 128:15, 18.

Why wouldn’t Christ’s grace be sufficient for someone before they are perfected?

[InCognitus]

On 1/30/2026 at 1:18 PM, GoCeltics said:

Why wouldn’t Christ’s grace be sufficient for someone before they are perfected?

You have that backward.  It is Christ's grace that perfects us, we are "perfected in him" as the verses say.

These verses are about sanctification, which is to be made holy and perfect, and are fully in accord with what the Bible teaches on the same topic.

1 Peter 1:13–17:  "Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;  As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.  And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear".

1 Thessalonians 4:1–7: "Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:  That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.  For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness."

2 Corinthians 7:1: "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

1 John 3:3:  "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

Titus 2:11–14:  "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Hebrews 12:14-15:  "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled".

Seems pretty consistent to me.

[bluebell]

On 1/28/2026 at 9:00 AM, GoCeltics said:

What is salvation in Alma 11:40-41?

Are you going to address your misquoting of the previous article that caused it to be understood completely opposite of what it was actually saying, to show that this discussion is in good faith?

[GoCeltics]

23 hours ago, bluebell said:

Are you going to address your misquoting of the previous article that caused it to be understood completely opposite of what it was actually saying, to show that this discussion is in good faith?

From your previous reply here.

You are correct. Not all references to salvation mean exaltation. 

Then Elder Dallin H. Oaks, in Have You Been Saved?, explained exaltation is the fulness 
of salvation.

"Finally, in another usage familiar and unique to Latter-day Saints, the words saved 
and salvation are also used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This 
is sometimes referred to as the "fulness of salvation" (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal 
Messiah, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and 
baptism by appropriate priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred 
covenants, including eternal marriage, in the temples of God, and faithfulness to those 
covenants by enduring to the end. If we use the word salvation to mean "exaltation," 
it is premature for any of us to say that we have been "saved" in mortality. That 
glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the 
living and the dead".

[GoCeltics]

23 hours ago, bluebell said:

Are you going to address your misquoting of the previous article that caused it to be understood completely opposite of what it was actually saying, to show that this discussion is in good faith?

From your previous reply here.

You are correct. Not all references to salvation mean exaltation.

Then Elder Dallin H. Oaks, in Have You Been Saved?, explained exaltation is the fulness of salvation.

“Finally, in another usage familiar and unique to Latter-day Saints, the words saved and salvation are also used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This is sometimes referred to as the "fulness of salvation" (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and baptism by appropriate priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred covenants, including eternal marriage, in the temples of God, and faithfulness to those covenants by enduring to the end. If we use the word salvation to mean “exaltation,” it is premature for any of us to say that we have been “saved” in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead.”

Edited February 3 by GoCeltics

[GoCeltics]

On 2/1/2026 at 10:47 PM, InCognitus said:

You have that backward.  It is Christ's grace that perfects us, we are "perfected in him" as the verses say.

When is grace sufficient according to Moroni 10:32?

[InCognitus]

3 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

When is grace sufficient according to Moroni 10:32?

Sufficient for perfection and sanctification?  The same as in 1 Peter 1:13–17 and Hebrews 12:14-15.

[teddyaware]

4 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

When is grace sufficient according to Moroni 10:32?

One wonders if you realize that the very same doctrine of obtaining perfection in Christ through being consciously diligent in seeking to know and do God’s will is taught in the New Testament? Isn’t it perfectly obvious that the Bible teaches the “law of the harvest,” that each of us will reap eternal rewards beyond the ‘entry level’ degree salvation depending on how diligently we sow through his grace? The Lord’s fervent hope for his children is for them to become perfect in him through his enabling grace.

9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power unto all patience and long suffering with joyfulness; (Colossians 1)

and…

 

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 IF ye continue in the faith grounded, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; (Colossians 1)

and…

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, WARNING every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. (Colossians 1)

and…

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already PERFECT but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3)

and…

(Please note that the following most solemn words of admonition from the Lord were directed to those who were already born again Christians!)

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 TO HIM THAT OVERCOMETH WILL I GRANT TO SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Revelation 3)

 

[GoCeltics]

On 2/3/2026 at 3:02 PM, teddyaware said:

The Lord’s fervent hope for his children is for them to become perfect in him through his enabling grace.

It sounds like you are making a differentiation between a current, enabling grace for you (insufficient now because you are still progressing) and a future, enabled grace (sufficient only after you are exalted/perfected).

Is that what is meant by Doctrine and Covenants 93:12-13, which speaks about how Christ did not receive a fullness at first but continued from grace to grace until He received a fullness – that the progression and growth of the Savior to godhood serves as a model for your own spiritual journey?

[GoCeltics]

On 2/3/2026 at 2:29 PM, InCognitus said:

Sufficient for perfection and sanctification?  The same as in 1 Peter 1:13–17 and Hebrews 12:14-15.

“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:13).

“Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled.” (Hebrews 12:15).

That grace is not a partial grace. It is a sufficient grace.

Then we turn to Paul. Christ’s grace is sufficient for him before his sanctification or perfection.

“And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”

A similar teaching is found in a 2022 General Conference talk (“Then Will I Make Weak Things Become Strong”). This is not about being perfected (exalted).

“I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. He then says that His grace is sufficient and that if we will humble ourselves and have faith in Him, then He will “make weak things [plural] become strong unto [us].” In other words, as we first change our fallen natures, our weakness, then we will be able to change our behaviors, our weaknesses.

Humility, coupled with faith in Jesus Christ, will allow us to access the enabling power of His grace and the fulness of blessings available because of His Atonement.

Third, through His grace He can make weak things become strong. If we humble ourselves and have faith in Jesus Christ, then His grace will enable us to change. In other words, He will empower us to change. This is possible because, as He says, “my grace is sufficient for all men.” His strengthening, enabling grace gives us power to overcome all obstacles, all challenges, and all weaknesses as we seek to change.

I witness and testify that Jesus Christ is in reality our Savior and Redeemer. His grace is indeed sufficient.”

Here’s another from 2004 General Conference (“In the Strength of the Lord”).

“… It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts” (p. 697).

Plus another from 2012 Ensign (“The Atonement and the Journey of Mortality”).

“It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts. In all these cases, Christ’s grace is sufficient before humans attempt to expend their best efforts. It is not a partial grace that develops into a fulness or sufficient grace.

Grace is the divine assistance or heavenly help each of us desperately needs to qualify for the celestial kingdom. Thus, the enabling power of the Atonement strengthens us to do and be good and to serve beyond our own individual desire and natural capacity.”

In all these cases, His grace is sufficient. He does not add “his grace” (insufficient now) to “our grace” so the “combined grace” becomes sufficient.

[teddyaware]

7 minutes ago, GoCeltics said:

It sounds like you are making a differentiation between a current, enabling grace for you (insufficient now because you are still progressing) and a future, enabled grace (sufficient only after you are exalted/perfected).

Is that what is meant by Doctrine and Covenants 93:12-13, which speaks about how Christ did not receive a fullness at first but continued from grace to grace until He received a fullness – that the progression and growth of the Savior to godhood serves as a model for your own spiritual journey?

I don’t know if this will help to answer your question, but in the soteriology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints the saints will never outgrow their need for the enlightenment and empowerment of the grace of God. We are only made able to become like God if the fulness of God’s Spirit dwells within us. In fact, we are utterly powerless to think, do or say anything in righteousness unless the Spirit of God dwells within us, at least in some measure.

The Latter-Day Saints believe the only way men can progress in the sanctification process, and eventually be crowned to reign as kings in heaven, is through the merciful process of being progressively filled with greater and greater portions of the Spirit of God until perfection in Christ is obtained. Truly, the only way men can become like God is by being filled with the Spirit of God, and this by virtue of the faithful becoming joint heirs with Christ in all that he himself possesses, including being endowed with an infinite and eternal portion of the Spirit of God.

Because, as Peter testified, the sanctified are made partakers of the divine nature through the atonement of Christ, God is thereby justly and properly able to fill those who overcome their fallen natures by faith in Christ with an infinite and eternal outpouring of the Spirit of God. You see, the Latter-Day Saints really do believe that with God all things are possible, and the greatest of all those possibilities is the supreme blessing of being filled with all the fulness of God by virtue of becoming joint heirship with Christ in all that he possesses, including the supreme joy of being filled with all the fulness of the glory of God. We Latter-Day Saints believe that the atoning sacrifice of Christ is an infinite and eternal sacrifice, which means that the redemptive blessings of his sacrifice to the faithful are infinite and eternal in quality, quantity and scope.

22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.

23 And God also declared unto prophets, by his own mouth, that Christ should come.

24 And behold, there were divers ways that he did manifest things unto the children of men, which were good; and all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them. (Moroni 7)

and…

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. (Ephesians 3)

and…

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Revelation 3)

 

[InCognitus]

7 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:13).

“Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled.” (Hebrews 12:15).

That grace is not a partial grace. It is a sufficient grace.

Nobody (including Moroni 10) says anything about "partial grace".  That's not found in the text.

But in both the examples above (1 Peter 1:13 and Hebrews 12:15), there is "hope to the end FOR the grace that is to be brought unto you", as a future realization of grace that isn't realized at the present time.  How do you explain that?

7 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

It sounds like you are making a differentiation between a current, enabling grace for you (insufficient now because you are still progressing) and a future, enabled grace (sufficient only after you are exalted/perfected).

No, that's what 1 Peter 1:13 and Hebrews 12:15 does.

7 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

In all these cases, His grace is sufficient. He does not add “his grace” (insufficient now) to “our grace” so the “combined grace” becomes sufficient.

Then how do you explain the "hope" for the grace that "is to be brought unto you", as a future realization of grace that isn't realized at the present time as detailed in 1 Peter 1:13-17 and Hebrews 12:14-15?

1 Peter 1:13–17:  "Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;  As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.  And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear".

Hebrews 12:14-15:  "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled".

If you need it to be clearer, this is the RSV translation of 1 Peter 1:13, "Therefore gird up your minds, be sober, set your hope fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."