My Son Died Last Week. It raised a Question I had not Previously Contemplated or Pondered

[Teancum]

On 12/14/2025 at 11:03 AM, Navidad said:

The last three months have really been a challenge. My wife almost died in September and probably would have if it weren't for a powerful and loyal LDS friend, two insistent cardiologists (one a Sunni Muslim), and a wonderfully sure-of-himself Jewish thoracic surgeon. I mention their faiths just for fun. During November and early December my son was terribly sick. He did die last Saturday morning in a hospital, with me insisting that the doctors and staff let me hold his hand while he died. For those of you who don't know, he was disabled and lived with us (my wife and me) for his entire 47 years. He was unconscious, connected to a respiratory device, and most likely had no idea I was there. The grace of holding his hand was more for me than for him. My wife couldn't travel to the hospitals with me, so she remained behind, here near the colonies, with our dear neighbors, workers, and LDS friends to support her. Needless to say, it has been a struggle.

I say all of that for background. We have had tremendous support in a traditional LDS-kind-of-a-way all the way from September to yesterday. I say that positively. They may have done so with or without the support of their bishop, who we have not seen or heard from at any point of this journey. When I pastored, I was not very good at home visits. Perhaps he isn't either. His wife has been here, though, with terrific support for my wife. 

Now to the point (you all know how long it takes me to get to the point!). What am I going to do if someone from the ward indicates they want to do a proxy baptism for my son? I am not sure how that works, so I am asking here. How does that work? My son was baptized by a Mennonite bishop who I have often mentioned on this forum in my seven years here. He was a wonderfully godly man. You all also know I do not appreciate certainty in faith. Having said that, I am "fairly" certain that my son's baptism was pleasing to the Lord, as was the godly man who ministered it. I am also fairly certain Christ has no preference for mode, amount of water, etc. Nor do I think one of his questions of me at the judgment seat will be by what earthly church and minister was I baptized, or even if I was baptized in my previous life. 

Now what do I say or do if I am asked permission by one or more of my friends to proxy baptize my son in the temple fifteen minutes from my house? My son was baptized by pouring water from a pitcher. Our church usually baptizes by immersion, but the bishop agreed to baptize my son by pouring at 14 years of age because of his autism and concomitant fear of water. I don't believe I need an LDS baptism for my son as an "insurance" policy. I don't believe he "needs" to be LDS baptized because his baptism was either blasphemy (Spencer Kimball) or displeasing to Christ (any number of LDS sacrament sermons and teachings). So, do I simply smile and say, "No, thank you." Will that last through several years from now when someone else gets his name from a list? Should I simply let someone do it so as not to offend them or their faith? I think that is reasonable.

You see, for those of you who may not know . . . I am not a member of the LDS church because I could not affirm that my previous baptism performed by my father was of no validity in God's eyes or ears because the one who did it had no authority. One thing my dad had was plenty of authority! He had so much authority, he pitched men's softball with a tie on!

So what is your advice and/or counsel? Is my son already being preached to by LDS missionaries in the spirit world, especially our friends from here who have passed on, including at least one general authority emeritus? Has someone probably already (in the past week) performed a proxy baptism on his behalf without my knowledge? As I said, I realize that as much as I know about LDS stuff, I don't know the answer to questions I am asking here. Thanks so much. Best wishes to all, especially to those of you who supported me and my wife through her crisis in Chandler. 

My most sincere condolences. The loss of loved ones is certainly among the most bitter parts of our lives. I think if someone asks to do a proxy baptism for your son, and you prefer not to, just politely decline. No other explanation is needed.

[Navidad]

19 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

You are not going to find a book with the definitive teaching on exactly what happens post-death/pre-resurrection, as there are many unanswered question- so you would be getting one's personal, though well-considered, opinion.

But the basic outline:

1) You return to the God who gave you life and receive a preliminary judgement.

2) You are assigned to Paradise, Prison**, or Hell (for those saying "Whaaat?!"- read your Gospel Principles manual.)

3) Those assigned to Spirit Prison have the Gospel preached to them and upon acceptance of ordinances performed on their behalf, are reassigned to Paradise.

4) Those assigned to Hell wait in that condition until the final resurrection.

**Sprit Prison isn't nearly as bad as it sounds. **

Thanks so much. Quick questions: Those who do not accept the ordinances performed on their behalf. What happens to them? Will there be emissaries (since someone didn't like the term missionaries) from other churches in the spirit prison? Will I be cognizant of my Mennonite membership in heaven? Is my father cognizant of his Plymouth Brethren commended worker status in heaven? More importantly, will Christ be aware of those things in "a preliminary judgment?" Will there be joyous reunions in spirit prison before or after the preliminary judgment? Who will perform the preliminary judgment, and what will be the basis of that verdict of that judgment? The person's godliness and faithfulness on earth? Christ's mercy? Solely and only the person's relationship to the LDS church in their life? Will I be judged more harshly because I had plenty of opportunities, all of which I rejected, to join the church in my earthly life? I am assuming there is a pathway (metaphorically speaking) between paradise and spirit prison. Is that pathway only for the LDS member? Will a temple recommend matter in placement? Will only LDS members be assigned to Paradise initially after the preliminary judgment? Obviously that is a lot of questions. This is just how my mind works. I have a high need to know and understand. Thanks so very much in advance for providing me the information you did, and for answering any of my questions that you care to answer.

[Navidad]

On 12/15/2025 at 5:15 AM, Calm said:

First, does it matter to you one way or the other?  

Simple answer: yes, it matters to me. I have high needs to know and understand. I ask those who I respect and trust for help in knowing and understanding. I know you will give me your beliefs and not mine. It is your beliefs that I am interested in understanding. I already know mine. I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the local diocese priest. I expect a similar conversation with him. He is coming to our home accompanied by a respected friend. I expect to ask some of the same questions. Thanks and know that I very much respect and trust you, @Calm.

[Calm]

17 hours ago, Rain said:

I have never heard this before.  I definitely have heard you are not supposed to be putting in non family names to be done, but never heard you are not supposed to look them up.  

 

It might have been my professor’s idea of respect, viewing it similar to sightseeing or distracting from the real work.

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Thanks so much. Quick questions: Those who do not accept the ordinances performed on their behalf. What happens to them?

They will remain in Spirit "Prison"

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Will there be emissaries (since someone didn't like the term missionaries) from other churches in the spirit prison?

I doubt it, but there will probably be people that cling tenaciously to whatever belief system they held in this life and will let people know it.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Will I be cognizant of my Mennonite membership in heaven? Is my father cognizant of his Plymouth Brethren commended worker status in heaven? More importantly, will Christ be aware of those things in "a preliminary judgment?"

Us, and Christ, will be fully aware of the experiences we had in mortality.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Will there be joyous reunions in spirit prison before or after the preliminary judgment?

It seems from NDE's that we are allowed to see certain people special to us prior to our interview with God. There are probably more reunions afterwards.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Who will perform the preliminary judgment, and what will be the basis of that verdict of that judgment? The person's godliness and faithfulness on earth? Christ's mercy?

I believe Christ will perform that initial judgement based on all the things you mentioned.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Solely and only the person's relationship to the LDS church in their life?

I believe whether or not the ordinances, and associated Covenants, were received are a factor in one who reached a sufficient level of accountability here on Earth.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Will I be judged more harshly because I had plenty of opportunities, all of which I rejected, to join the church in my earthly life?

I don't believe judgement is necessarily harsh or non-harsh, it just places you in the correct place according to what you were willing to receive.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

I am assuming there is a pathway (metaphorically speaking) between paradise and spirit prison. Is that pathway only for the LDS member?

If you are placed in Spirit Prison to be taught, the way forward is through accepting ordinances done in your behalf in Temples here in Earth.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Will a temple recommend matter in placement?

Sort of. Merely possessing one doesn't guarantee anything, one has to faithfully honor the covenants one has made.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Will only LDS members be assigned to Paradise initially after the preliminary judgment?

No. Children who die before they were accountable and those who never possessed sufficient mental capacity to understand right from wrong will be in Paradise.

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Obviously that is a lot of questions. This is just how my mind works. I have a high need to know and understand. Thanks so very much in advance for providing me the information you did, and for answering any of my questions that you care to answer.

No problem.

[JVW]

3 hours ago, Navidad said:

Thanks so much. Quick questions: Those who do not accept the ordinances performed on their behalf. What happens to them? Will there be emissaries (since someone didn't like the term missionaries) from other churches in the spirit prison? Will I be cognizant of my Mennonite membership in heaven? Is my father cognizant of his Plymouth Brethren commended worker status in heaven? More importantly, will Christ be aware of those things in "a preliminary judgment?" Will there be joyous reunions in spirit prison before or after the preliminary judgment? Who will perform the preliminary judgment, and what will be the basis of that verdict of that judgment? The person's godliness and faithfulness on earth? Christ's mercy? Solely and only the person's relationship to the LDS church in their life? Will I be judged more harshly because I had plenty of opportunities, all of which I rejected, to join the church in my earthly life? I am assuming there is a pathway (metaphorically speaking) between paradise and spirit prison. Is that pathway only for the LDS member? Will a temple recommend matter in placement? Will only LDS members be assigned to Paradise initially after the preliminary judgment? Obviously that is a lot of questions. This is just how my mind works. I have a high need to know and understand. Thanks so very much in advance for providing me the information you did, and for answering any of my questions that you care to answer.

Based off of my personal experiences with God and some transcendent divine experiences I believe that your son is with God and your ancestors. This view is not connected to my religious beliefs, but I do believe that it reflects the reality of your son's current situation. May you find comfort and peace during this tragic time.

[BlueDreams]

On 12/16/2025 at 10:22 AM, Navidad said:

I appreciate your thoughts and thank you for them. In my OP, I asked for advice, counsel, and information. You all are providing that for me. Some of it opens up many more questions for me, and like you, I hesitate to ask them, especially after asking for your thoughts. When I asked, I imagined there would be things said with which I would not agree. That is ok. What I am still lacking is a clear concept of LDS beliefs about the afterlife. I have a large library on LDS doctrine, but virtually nothing that touches on the immediate afterlife of a deceased LDS Christian, or a deceased non-LDS Christian (from an LDS perspective). Joyous reunion or spirit prison for my son? Both my son and his aunt (my sister) died outside the LDS church. Are they having a joyous reunion or languishing in some place called spirit prison? If his proxy work has not been done, then what is his relationship to the LDS folks who are there to minister to him? Will there be more proxy work done in the spirit world, specifically in spirit prison? And on and on. I think all churches tend toward murkiness and inconsistency regarding the afterlife. "Absent from the body and present with the Lord" is used for comfort in some churches. 

We don't claim to know an individual's experience in the after life for the most part. There's a few exceptions. Like we believe that anyone not fully accountable in one way or another are in paradise (babies, young children, people with severe mental impairments). We generally have a more universalistic tendency in framing the afterlife. More mercy and far less punitive oriented in terms of etiology. So spirit prison is more about correction and accountability than it is the classic vision of hell in mainstream orientations (as far as I'm aware of that). 

You can read a brief summary of what we generally know here: 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/spirit-world-study-guide?lang=eng

I would note that wicked and righteous are not synonymous with LDS and not in our theology. At no point is religious affiliation really mentioned in any of these descriptions or scriptures. That's not how we define righteousness and wickedness.** It's about what you knew and what you did with that knowledge. Did you honor the light of Christ given to you? Were you receptive to receiving more when you felt the call for such? Those are questions that can't be answered by denominational affiliation. Lower down it also mentions that even those in paradise could be described as somewhat inprisoned. Not in the way that they're being tortured or in something hellish. But in the sense that there are limitations to their existence still. (Namely the continued separation of the body and spirit...within LDS theology we are not fulfilled until we are resurrected).

What follows is just my personal beliefs and opinions based within an LDS context and my personal experiences. The 2 most formative experiences around this topic includes my grandfather and my twin girls who were born too early and passed. My grandfather was not a good man by any definition of that word. Let's just say he committed sins that scriptures talk about millstones and necks and oceans in reference to. His death, I assumed would be uneventful for me as I'd written him off years before then. Instead it taught me about God's love for Their children. I can to understand the love and deep sorrow and pain he caused them. And I learned that even for him there is redemption. But that must come with accountability and purging of said sins. It was humbling to realize God's greater capacity for forgiveness to my own. 

With my girls I came to understand the Joy that is heaven and the great mercy God has for all of us when it's difficult to accept God's will more than our own. That transcendant mercy has fundamentally shifted how I view others around me who struggle to change, grow, or let go of things that they need to. Including myself. 

 

Knowing God a little more from these experiences makes me firmly believe that most people will be gently welcomed home when they past. That they will be lovingly cared for in the corrections and healing we'll all need. And that even the worst, will be given chance after chance to let go of their sins and wrongs to find peace. I don't know what that means for an individual, but I trust that eternal loving balance.

**I should note that I'm sure there are people who would disagree with me and interpret doctrines differently from me. They may even be pretty adamant about it. That doesn't make them more right or more of an authority.

On 12/16/2025 at 10:22 AM, Navidad said:

 

As for me, I believe God is no respecter of persons, either in this life or the next. I can't see any place for denominations and any other concept of church in heaven other than the true church—the gathering of all those who claim Christ as their Savior. Maybe that is what the neglected part of D&C 1:30 means - "the collective church"as opposed to the "church individually." I have only ever heard one LDS speaker opine on that. Ok, I don't want to get into a debate after I promised I would not. I would simply go online today and buy any book (that I don't already own) that any of you can recommend on the LDS perspective of the hereafter that gives specific examples and situations. Right now I am fascinated with the ethical (at least) and moral/spiritual (at most) significance of using data gathered  through FamilySearch from people who think they are simply going on a great family heritage genealogy site. My son is not on FamilySearch, and right now I am not inclined to put him there until I resolve this dilemma in my own mind. Someone else might. Who knows? Thanks and very best wishes.    

I mentioned this earlier, but it may have gotten lost in the posts. So I'll say it more explicitly. I don't believe we'll all be Mormon in the CK. Said less crassly, i don't believe we'll all be members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints in heaven. Beyond just dc 1:30, I think of Jacob 4 a lot (it's a passage describe God's peoples as a vineyard of olive trees), I think of the Zion community described in the BOM after Christ's coming that led to the people to stop identifying via groups and to be known by Christ. We will one day find place and space in the kingdoms of God, those in the CK are part of the "church of the Firstborn." To me, the work we do in temples is similar to the mud and spit Christ used to heal blindness. And who it heals is not simply the dead. It's to bring us all together as one. Not under the unity of a specific earthly church but under the unity and wholeness found in Christ. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

Edited December 17, 2025 by BlueDreams

[Chum]

On 12/16/2025 at 8:08 PM, bluebell said:

If someone has they broke the rules to do it.

I'd do it. In this use case, it'd more ethical than adhering to the rules.

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, Chum said:

I'd do it. In this use case, it'd more ethical than adhering to the rules.

You'd be proxy for his son and have him baptized?

[Chum]

On 12/16/2025 at 9:43 PM, Rain said:

I definitely have heard you are not supposed to be putting in non family names to be done, but never heard you are not supposed to look them up.  

 

23 hours ago, bluebell said:

This is what it says on Family Search:

Quote

"When submitting names for proxy temple ordinances, members should generally submit only the names of persons to whom they are related"

All of the above aligns with my understanding.

Yet, just inputting names into FamilySearch will result in those names being available to temple trirppers for baptisms, etc. 
Many times I've had newly a entered family get their work done within days - in temples all over the world. 

[Chum]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

You'd be proxy for his son and have him baptized?

We have a misunderstanding somewhere.  I was volunteering to check FamilySearch to see if ordinances were done. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

We have a misunderstanding somewhere.  I was volunteering to check FamilySearch to see if ordinances were done. 

I was saying that if they were already done the person broke the rules to do them.

[Chum]

17 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was saying that if they were already done the person broke the rules to do them.

Ah.  I agree with that in the context you're working with.  And if they're <110y, you're certainly right.
But for anyone >110, just placing them in FamilySearch is a de facto submission to have their ordinances performed.  Typically in short order. 

[bluebell]

9 hours ago, Chum said:

Ah.  I agree with that in the context you're working with.  And if they're <110y, you're certainly right.
But for anyone >110, just placing them in FamilySearch is a de facto submission to have their ordinances performed.  Typically in short order. 

The rule used to be no ordinances for a year after death, but now it’s 30 days for immediate family members. But the rule of no submitting names you aren’t related to has been strengthened.

The new handbook changes removed the word “generally” from the rule, taking away the previous perception of a loophole.  Even if the name was put into family search it still wouldn’t be eligible for any ordinances unless Navidad gave written permission to a family member who could do the work.

Edited December 18, 2025 by bluebell

[JVW]

16 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

What follows is just my personal beliefs and opinions based within an LDS context and my personal experiences. The 2 most formative experiences around this topic includes my grandfather and my twin girls who were born too early and passed. My grandfather was not a good man by any definition of that word. Let's just say he committed sins that scriptures talk about millstones and necks and oceans in reference to. His death, I assumed would be uneventful for me as I'd written him off years before then. Instead it taught me about God's love for Their children. I can to understand the love and deep sorrow and pain he caused them. And I learned that even for him there is redemption. But that must come with accountability and purging of said sins. It was humbling to realize God's greater capacity for forgiveness to my own. 

With my girls I came to understand the Joy that is heaven and the great mercy God has for all of us when it's difficult to accept God's will more than our own. That transcendant mercy has fundamentally shifted how I view others around me who struggle to change, grow, or let go of things that they need to. Including myself. 

Knowing God a little more from these experiences makes me firmly believe that most people will be gently welcomed home when they past. That they will be lovingly cared for in the corrections and healing we'll all need. And that even the worst, will be given chance after chance to let go of their sins and wrongs to find peace. I don't know what that means for an individual, but I trust that eternal loving balance.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. That was very tender and special. I agree with you wholeheartedly. God's love is truly majestic and beyond human comprehension. Your comments reminded me of that talk "Mortality Works!" which gives me a lot of hope, the following two quotes are quite touching

Quote

[Months after his mother died after living a long life with a bunch of pain and loneliness] He learned by the power of the Holy Ghost that his mother had a message for him. She communicated with him, but not by vision or audible words. The following unmistakable message came into the son’s mind from his mother: “I want you to know that mortality works, and I want you to know that I now understand why everything happened [in my life] the way it did—and it is all OK.” 

Then the speaker's own personal experience with his mother

Quote

[After living life a life with many difficult and challenging physical and financial circumstances] 

Several months after her passing, I had a dream I have never forgotten. In my dream, I was sitting in my office at the Church Administration Building. Mom entered the office. I knew she had come from the spirit world. I will always remember the feelings I had. She did not say anything, but she radiated a spiritual beauty that I had never before experienced and which I have difficulty describing.

Her countenance and being were truly stunning! I remember saying to her, “Mother, you are so beautiful!,” referencing her spiritual power and beauty. She acknowledged me—again without speaking. I felt her love for me, and I knew then that she is happy and healed from her worldly cares and challenges and eagerly awaits “a glorious resurrection.” I know that for Mom, mortality worked—and that it works for us too.

There was an NDE that I watched once that described something really beautiful. The woman had been abused as a child by a close relative and had carried so much pain and trauma her entire life. She died in her 60s and described being in a room that had an ethereal white mist filling it. As she was washed in the mist, like a shower, all of her emotional pain vanished and was replaced with peace and comfort. When she came back to life she had been healed and dedicated herself to helping others and living for God. I hope I can experience that mist before I die, but even if not I am confident that all those who pass on feel a great sense of relief as they leave their worldly burdens and weakness behind while being hugged by God. He gets it. I have this elusive impression that life is more intense and difficult than we give it credit for. He'll certainly pamper us after we return home to Him.

[Chum]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

The rule used to be no ordinances for a year after death, but now it’s 30 days for immediate family members. But the rule of no submitting names you aren’t related to has been strengthened.

The new handbook changes removed the word “generally” from the rule, taking away the previous perception of a loophole.  Even if the name was put into family search it still wouldn’t be eligible for any ordinances unless Navidad gave written permission to a family member who could do the work.

For this last bit, you mean it wouldn't be eligible for ordinances until a year has passed, correct?

[bluebell]

36 minutes ago, Chum said:

For this last bit, you mean it wouldn't be eligible for ordinances until a year has passed, correct?

It wouldn't ever be eligible unless Navidad provided written permission to a family member who was going to do the work (and it had been 30 days since he died). 

Because Navidad is his closest living relative, his son's work cannot be done without his written permission, which the family member trying to do the work would have to submit to Family Search.

Edit to add:  by 'ever' I mean until his immediate family members are all gone because he passed away so long ago that getting permission isn't relevant anymore.  But even then his name is supposed to be submitted by a family member and not just a random person.  Even indexed names don't go directly to the temple, as I understand it.  They are added to a searchable database where family can find them while doing their own family history and then submit them.

I can't think of anyway that Navidad would have to worry about his son's work being done for the foreseeable future unless someone seriously broke rules and flat out lied to do it.  And even when the possibility eventually exists, it would have to be a family member who does the work and not just a well-meaning member (barring serious rule changes in the next few decades of course).

Edited December 18, 2025 by bluebell

[Chum]

56 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It wouldn't ever be eligible unless Navidad provided written permission to a family member who was going to do the work (and it had been 30 days since he died). 

Because Navidad is his closest living relative, his son's work cannot be done without his written permission, which the family member trying to do the work would have to submit to Family Search.

Edit to add:  by 'ever' I mean until his family members are all gone because he passed away so long ago that getting permission isn't relevant anymore.  

A couple of things. First, ugh, sorry. I just realized I didn't clarify whether or not we're talking about >110y names. I am only referring to >110y names.

Second.  Navidad also mentioned his parents who were born in 1910. That's who I was referring to when I said a member could check FS to see if they're work can be done.

My posts after that are only referencing >110y submissions into FS.
What I've seen are names in FS's Your Impact section (shows the names I submitted who just had their work done) show up shortly after I submit them to FS. I am informed that their work (and their immediate family's work) had been done in disparate temples around the world. 

Regarding that last, I'll add a couple of things. One is a recentish change in FS policy limited reserving names [ within FS ] to close relatives. Before that I had the an option to reserve anyone from within their profile. This seemed to include profiles I hadn't even worked on.  However, I've only reserved one name (ever, anywhere) so I can't be sure of this very last bit.

The other thing is I abruptly stopped working in FS last spring so I no longer have a stream of examples in front of me. I'm also unaware of any changes in policy since then. 

Edited December 18, 2025 by Chum

[bluebell]

24 minutes ago, Chum said:

A couple of things. First, ugh, sorry. I just realized I didn't clarify whether or not we're talking about >110y names. I am only referring to >110y names.

Second.  Navidad also mentioned his parents who were born in 1910. That's who I was referring to when I said a member could check FS to see if they're work can be done.

My posts after that are only referencing >110y submissions into FS.
What I've seen are names in FS's Your Impact section (shows the names I submitted who just had their work done) show up shortly after I submit them to FS. I am informed that their work (and their immediate family's work) had been done in disparate temples around the world. 

Regarding that last, I'll add a couple of things. One is a recentish change in FS policy limited reserving names [ within FS ] to close relatives. Before that I had the an option to reserve anyone from within their profile. This seemed to include profiles I hadn't even worked on.  However, I've only reserved one name (ever, anywhere) so I can't be sure of this very last bit.

The other thing is I abruptly stopped working in FS last spring so I no longer have a stream of examples in front of me. I'm also unaware of any changes in policy since then. 

Ah, yeah. That clarifies. I thought you were talking about his son.  No one should’ve done his parents names without his written permission (or that of any siblings if he has them) since he would be there closest living family member.

[Chum]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

No one should’ve done his parents names without his written permission (or that of any siblings if he has them) since he would be there closest living family member.

Are 100% of names handed out in temples submitted by close family members? If Y, are we certain it's absolutely 100% ?

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, Chum said:

Are 100% of names handed out in temples submitted by close family members? If Y, are we certain it's absolutely 100% ?

If they’ve been dead long enough, it doesn’t have to be a close family member. Just a family member.  But since not all people follow the rules, we can probably guarantee it’s not 100%. 

[Chum]

13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If they’ve been dead long enough, it doesn’t have to be a close family member. Just a family member.  But since not all people follow the rules, we can probably guarantee it’s not 100%. 

Recalling my history with FS, I've seen a lot of hints that an amount of names are shared for temple work, without any interaction on a member's part. One indication was that the ID of the member who shared it would be missing. 

Edited December 18, 2025 by Chum

[rpn]

On 12/14/2025 at 8:22 PM, Navidad said:

My own personal faith, worthiness, sanctification, belief, trust, etc. etc. have nothing to do with my salvation. Christ accepts me because of the faithfulness of some unknown member of the LDS church who did an act of proxy baptism for me as one of a thousand they did in their lifetime.

I wouldn't say that is accurate.   Everyone has to choose to opt in.   The temple work we do for the dead is so that you can choose to join the Church of Jesus Christ.  The important part of becoming LIKE our Heavenly Parents and Savior is what salvation requires.   When you recognize then what you don't recognize here, the ordinances will be ready.   But each of us has to have become what we were meant to become.  And practically, when we die, members go to a different place than non-members who are then taught the gospel of Jesus Christ and may choose to accept the ordinances that have been performed on earth which gives us that choice.

[Calm]

On 12/14/2025 at 6:22 PM, Navidad said:

My ultimate destiny depends on the unique authority of one who performed a proxy baptism for me—someone I probably never met, one whose worthiness is less important than their authority. That person will know nothing about my own potential worthiness or not, of eternal life with Christ. So my salvation, including what you deem exaltation, is dependent on that stranger's authority, not mine. It isn't even based on their worthiness either. All they need is a temple recommend, do the ritual forty times a night, and the salvation is granted once I say OK in the spirit world. 

I forgot I wanted to respond to this earlier.  More like baptism and ordinances are like a learner’s permit, a necessary but not sufficient requirement to first learning how to drive and then there comes the part of actually choosing to get in the car and go somewhere (though for some it’s probably retroactive since the choice and journey have occurred to a great extent already)

Edited December 19, 2025 by Calm

[Navidad]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

I forgot I wanted to respond to this earlier.  More like baptism and ordinances are like a learner’s permit, a necessary but not sufficient requirement to first learning how to drive and then there comes the part of actually choosing to get in the car and go somewhere (though for some it’s probably retroactive since the choice and journey have occurred to a great extent already)

But then logically you must allow for those who accept their proxy baptism and still don't go to the other side - to paradise. Or those with temple recommends who have done proxy baptisms but who go to spirit prison instead of paradise due to their own person unworthiness, regardless of their authority or church membership. Right?