LDS Church Files Brief In Trans Supreme Court Case

[smac97]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

The Supreme Court has issued its ruling:

Court rules that states can exclude transgender athletes from girls’ and women’s sports teams

A Grok summary of the Court's opinion:

I think this was the correct outcome.  It's a difficult topic, to be sure.

Thanks,

-Smac

Supreme Court Delivers Landmark Title IX Win for Women's Sports

Quote

Justice Brett Kavanaugh authored the opinion. Justices Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Barrett joined in the majority opinion, with Thomas and Gorsuch filing concurring opinions. Justice Sotomayor filed an opinion concurring in part and dissenting in part, joined by Justices Kagan and Jackson - so, the decision would appear to be right along ideological lines.

Here's a key excerpt from the decision:

Those “[p]hysical differences between men and women” are “enduring.” United States v. Virginia, 518 U. S. 515, 533 (1996).  The differences include, among other things, height, weight, strength, speed, endurance, and jumping ability. Therefore, in contact sports, forcing female athletes to compete against males can create significant safety risks. And in virtually all competitive sports, forcing female athletes to compete against males can undermine competitive fairness.

To ensure equal opportunity for female athletes, schools therefore typically maintain separate women’s and men’s sports teams.  Women’s teams compete against other women’s teams, and men’s teams compete against other men’s teams. To ensure equal opportunity, Title IX’s regulations also require schools to provide the women’s and men’s teams equivalent equipment, facilities, scheduling, and the like. 

That is an apt summary of the facts of human biology, and this decision is a victory for advocates of women's sports.

We seem to be reasserting biological sex as the means of differentiation, as opposed to "gender identity."  I think that is a necessary and appropriate conclusion.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Nofear]

The three dissenting judges disagreed with the sex reasoning but also sided that the stautory claims of the cases failed to meet title iX protections.

[The Nehor]

Disappointed but unsurprised that some of the reasoning about AMAB people on estrogen retaining their advantage is based largely on junk science. There have only been a few studies of the effects of hormone therapy on retention of a strength advantage. In most cases the advantage is lost within two years and that cis women typically have more testosterone than transwomen. Despite this the decision blithely makes statements about what advantages AMAB people have. Sadly this kind of acceptance of sparse or bad data has become a bit of a standard for the current Supreme Court.

I really wonder what will happen if a transman tries to join a men’s team. Will this decision apply as well as transmen do rapidly gain strength. I was in a combat class with a transguy for a few years. At first I could generally throw him around like a rag doll. He started T and within a year and a half of being on it the situation was much closer and he then started to get the advantage. A transwoman in the same class could toss me around (she was in the reserve and was a bit of a gym rat). Within a year and a half I could restrain her whole body using only one or two limbs. She told me I was getting stronger. I don’t think that was it.

I am not too worried about this decision on its own. Based on what I have read that impacts less than a dozen people. If more laws are passed that might increase but it will still be pretty small. I do worry about this precedent. Also worry that this will embolden more amateur ‘transvestigators’ to harass transgirls and cis girls on sports teams that might not look feminine enough, a practice that has been increasing in recent years. Tomboyish girls already face problems. Now they get to have their gender questioned. Good thing this is about defending women and will protect them………nope, I could not keep a straight face.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Will this decision apply as well as transmen do rapidly gain strength. I was in a combat class with a transguy for a few years.

Any comment in the case about trans men joining women’s teams?

[webbles]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I really wonder what will happen if a transman tries to join a men’s team. Will this decision apply as well as transmen do rapidly gain strength. I was in a combat class with a transguy for a few years. At first I could generally throw him around like a rag doll. He started T and within a year and a half of being on it the situation was much closer and he then started to get the advantage. A transwoman in the same class could toss me around (she was in the reserve and was a bit of a gym rat). Within a year and a half I could restrain her whole body using only one or two limbs. She told me I was getting stronger. I don’t think that was it.

Some transmen have already joined men's teams.  Schuyler Bailar is a trans man who joined Harvard before transitioning and was on the women's swimming team.  After he transitioned, his coach offered him to either join the men's or women's team.  He chose the men's and competed there.  He finished his college career in 2019.

Chris Mosier is another trans man who was on the men's olympics team in 2020.  He competed at the olympic's trials but unfortunately was injured so didn't pass that stage.

I think we would need to see a trans man actually win some competitions before any outrage would occur.  The whole fairness issue on the transwomen side (men taking women's podium spots) hasn't yet occurred with transmen.  They definitely can be stronger than the average man, but it doesn't seem like they can be stronger than the top tier athletic men (still to be determined, though).

[InCognitus]

It seems like the general anti-doping rules should apply to all sports, which would be definitely problematic for transmen, and I'm not sure how that would apply to transwomen.  But the basic idea to anti-doping is to prohibit athletes from getting an unfair competitive advantage in sports through doping (however one wants to define that).  For transwomen, at what point is it an unfair competitive advantage?

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, InCognitus said:

It seems like the general anti-doping rules should apply to all sports, which would be definitely problematic for transmen, and I'm not sure how that would apply to transwomen.  But the basic idea to anti-doping is to prohibit athletes from getting an unfair competitive advantage in sports through doping (however one wants to define that).  For transwomen, at what point is it an unfair competitive advantage?

I understand the reasoning for this but genetics are an unfair competitive advantage and pretending there is some blank slate equality underneath can seem silly.

[Calm]

On 7/6/2026 at 9:58 AM, The Nehor said:

I understand the reasoning for this but genetics are an unfair competitive advantage and pretending there is some blank slate equality underneath can seem silly.

But there is a difference between ‘natural’ advantages and man made advantages in many people’s minds (but training itself is a man made advantage).

[longview]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

But there is a difference between ‘natural’ advantages and man made advantages in many people’s minds (but training itself is a man made advantage).

And then there are political "mandates" that force women and girls to be unfairly subjected to brutality by men pretending to be "actual" females.

[The Nehor]

28 minutes ago, longview said:

And then there are political "mandates" that force women and girls to be unfairly subjected to brutality by men pretending to be "actual" females.

Which is an incredibly rare occurrence while brutality from cisgender men against women is an ongoing crisis impacting most women’s lives.

We’re the problem buddy. Not transwomen.

Making up boogeymen is pointless and just encourages more bigotry and violence against an already marginalized group.

Edited July 7 by The Nehor

[Calm]

23 hours ago, longview said:

And then there are political "mandates" that force women and girls to be unfairly subjected to brutality by men pretending to be "actual" females.

If you mean cisgendered men going to the extreme of claiming to be women so as to have access to women only spaces, the amount of times this actually happens compared to cisgendered men not pretending or perhaps pretending to actually care about women while still violating their privacy and consent and rights….

I see it would be a much better investment of time and money to go after the latter given the rate of occurrences are significantly higher.

I don’t want to see someone who can easily dominate me in a space I am inherently vulnerable in, but please target where it will actually make a major difference for myself and women rather than something that occurs to very few women overall.  

Work on the major problem of assault we have been living with for centuries rather allow yourself to get distracted by the rare occurrences so little to nothing actually changes for women.  
 

But for this to happen we would probably have to elect politicians that aren’t into assaulting women themselves or are okay with others who do as long as they align politically, Iow have a no tolerance rule for everyone that gets enforced. 

Edited July 8 by Calm

[longview]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

I see it would be a much better investment of time and money to go after the latter given the rate of occurrences are significantly higher.

Deflect much?

What happened to Riley Gaines went beyond the pale. Those administrators officiating at the NCAA women's swimming championship were desperately trying to make it look "legitimate" in attempting to give the "glory" to "lia" Thomas (who had NO business being in the competition). "lia" and Riley were tied (amazingly!) but the officials were so determined to give the "trophy" to "lia" that they told Riley to wait for HER legitimate trophy (they will mail it to her later). Riley was a very dedicated athlete and HEROIC in every sense of the word.

To add insult to injury, Riley and her legitimate team members were obscenely forced to share the locker room with "lia". 

Months later common sense prevailed and "lia" were stripped of HIS ill-gotten thievery and Riley obtained million dollar settlements.  

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, longview said:

Deflect much?

Not really.  I see that as what transgender politics is doing for women’s safety overall.  Focus on a minute problem that likely would be taken care of by the actual organizations involved rather than focusing on on actual systemic issues.

[The Nehor]

On 7/8/2026 at 2:44 PM, longview said:

Deflect much?

So talking about how cisgendered men abuse women at over ten times the rate that tranwomen do is a deflection. Well, okay, as long as this standard of what is a deflection is consistent I guess it is okay if we……

On 7/8/2026 at 2:44 PM, longview said:

What happened to Riley Gaines went beyond the pale.

So you are deflecting from a discussion of cisgendered men being the most common abusers of women by a huge margin by saying that an athlete got peeved about something minor?

So you are okay with deflections? Pick a lane!

On 7/8/2026 at 2:44 PM, longview said:

Those administrators officiating at the NCAA women's swimming championship were desperately trying to make it look "legitimate" in attempting to give the "glory" to "lia" Thomas (who had NO business being in the competition). "lia" and Riley were tied (amazingly!) but the officials were so determined to give the "trophy" to "lia" that they told Riley to wait for HER legitimate trophy (they will mail it to her later).

They tied and gave the fifth and sixth place trophies to both women and had them hold those trophies (which looked identical from a distance) in the photo. They were going to have a trophy made up that was engraved with the correct 5th place but they only had one so gave it to one of the women with the promise they would send her an identical trophy.

So the horrific injustice she suffered was……getting the exact same thing she would have gotten if Ila hadn’t tied her. That’s it. That’s the story. It could have easily been that they gave Riley the 5th place trophy and Ila had had to wait a week to get an identical trophy. This is your suffering martyr? This is just pathetic.

That she is the poster child for cis women suffering due to transgender women existing just shows how desperate transphobes are for heroes. You pivoted from talk about sexual assault to this and think it is somehow equivalent? Doesn’t that appear at all insane to you? Your hero is someone who had to wait a week or two for a trophy? What is wrong with you?

On 7/8/2026 at 2:44 PM, longview said:

Riley was a very dedicated athlete and HEROIC in every sense of the word.

This is a pitiful hero. It says more about those lionizing her than it does about her. There are people doing amazing things out there worthy of acclaim but this trophy thing is heroism? What the hell?

Also Riley Gaines spends a lot of time on social media calling out and targeting transgender athletes in Middle School and High School. She is outing and bullying literal children and that is somehow heroic? That is monstrous. It was egging on transphobes to harass and humiliate children. This is your hero? That is disgusting.

On 7/8/2026 at 2:44 PM, longview said:

To add insult to injury, Riley and her legitimate team members were obscenely forced to share the locker room with "lia".

And this is not something Riley Gaines complained about. At least not on the day itself where she said: “I am in full support of her and full support of her transition and her swimming career and everything like that because there’s no doubt that she works hard too, but she’s just abiding by the rules that the NCAA put in place, and that’s the issue.”

The issue being that her trophy was delayed….I guess.

Gaines changed her tune a bit once she realized that there was money to be made as a conservative icon and somehow her support of transition and swimming career vanished when there was a grift to get in on.

Oh, and worth noting that Lia was well along in her transition. For several years she was required to compete on the men’s swimming team until she had been on hormone therapy long enough to comply with the NCAA guidelines. Her swimming times were substanitally worse than her times before she began the transition.

Fun Fact: The five athletes that beat both Lia and Riley included four cisgender women and one transman. The transgender man did not pursue hormone therapy as part of his transition so was unable to participate on the men’s team.

On 7/8/2026 at 2:44 PM, longview said:

Months later common sense prevailed and "lia" were stripped of HIS ill-gotten thievery and Riley obtained million dollar settlements.  

That never happened. There were changes in the records when the Trump administration bullied the athletic organization to change some of their records retroactively and the “Riley Gaines Act” was passed but Lia’s times are still recorded and are official. Also Riley never obtained any settlements. She and others sued the organization but almost all the charges were dismissed and the one small sliver of the lawsuit that has trudged on like a zombie has to do with Defense Department funding.

So no, there were no million dollar settlements. Well, sort of. There is a news report of Riley Gaines winning $1.2 million dollars in a settlement. It was published in the Dunning-Krueger Times which is a satire website that only the very credulous could believe. Right wing morons believed it and heralded it as a great victory because they are idiots or they realized it was false and just figured their followers were stupid enough to believe it and ran with it.

 

In summary, your hero is a terrible person, comparing sexual assault to having to wait a week for a trophy at a college swim meet is reprehensible, and you are deeply weird for complaining about deflecting and then immediately launching an obvious deflection. Might want to work on the self-awareness a bit there.

Edited July 10 by The Nehor

[Calm]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

You pivoted from talk about sexual assault to this and think it is somehow equivalent?

This…

Quote

Riley Gaines spends a lot of time on social media calling out and targeting transgender athletes in Middle School and High School.

Very troubling given any transgender kid singled out by her probably got targeted.

Edited July 10 by Calm

[The Nehor]

On 7/10/2026 at 1:59 PM, Calm said:

Very troubling given any transgender kid singled out by her probably got targeted.

Many of them did get bullied and harassed.

[longview]

On 7/10/2026 at 12:59 PM, Calm said:

Quote

Riley Gaines spends a lot of time on social media calling out and targeting transgender athletes in Middle School and High School.

Very troubling given any transgender kid singled out by her probably got targeted.

This is NOT persecution. This is justifiable protest against the unfairness and obscenity of forcing women and girls to compete with "male" thugs and sharing the locker space.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, longview said:

This is NOT persecution. This is justifiable protest against the unfairness and obscenity of forcing women and girls to compete with "male" thugs and sharing the locker space.

So you are okay with minors get bullied and threatened?  That’s just protest?

At what point does agessive treatment of children become abuse in your view then?

Just in case you missed it, I am talking about releasing personal info of minors publicly without their or their parents’ consent. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:53 AM by Calm

[longview]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

So you are okay with minors get bullied and threatened?  That’s just protest?

It so VERY wrong of you and Nehor to imply that Riley Gaines would stoop to bullying or threatening trans. That is UNjustifiable character assassination typical of Nehor BUT for you to smear Riley is very disappointing.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, longview said:

It so VERY wrong of you and Nehor to imply that Riley Gaines would stoop to bullying or threatening trans. That is UNjustifiable character assassination typical of Nehor BUT for you to smear Riley is very disappointing.

I didn’t say she bullied them herself.  But if she put enough info out there that others could identify the transgender minor, she drew a target on the kids’ back.  And given she has likely been cyber harassed and more herself, it seems she would be aware of the outcome.  
 

Would you be okay if I posted your minor children’s info (how old they were, what school they went to, pictures) along with the fact they are LDS on a website where I knew rabid anti Mormons posted?

Edited Tuesday at 04:24 AM by Calm

[longview]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I didn’t say she bullied them herself.  But if she put enough info out there that others could identify the transgender minor, she drew a target on the kids’ back.  And given she has likely been cyber harassed and more herself, it seems she would be aware of the outcome.  

You are still slandering Riley. Do I have to demand CFR for this supposed incident?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, longview said:

You are still slandering Riley. Do I have to demand CFR for this supposed incident?

I just need to be clear on what you see as acceptable behaviour in general when it comes to minors because you calling it justifiable protest was odd to me.

So you do agree that giving info out that is enough to identify minors, whether transgender or not is something no one should do without appropriate consent?

[Calm]

Gaines participating in drawing negative attention to specific transgender minors by publishing photos, etc.  Not saying it was illegal taking public photos of school events and reposting them for a different purpose, but it does indeed trouble me.  I feel very bad for the kids to have that kind of attention drawn to them.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-02-09/two-transgender-athletes-describe-teen-life-on-the-front-lines-of-a-raging-national-debate

Quote

Gaines had also helped circulate another post a couple of weeks prior: S.M.’s tough-talking Instagram rant to her close friends, which had somehow leaked.

Gaines repeatedly called S.M. a boy and said her “mf sock to the face” remark was “a direct threat” that should lead to S.M.’s explusion.

“He’s right about this: we don’t respect him as a female, because he isnt one,” Gaines wrote.

As other influencers piled on, Essayli also recirculated Gaines’ post — spreading S.M.’s face further around the internet. He wrote that Riverside Unified was “completely out of control” and “mishandling this situation.” 

S.M. was terrified, she said, saying it “felt like all these eyes were on me,” and that “I was canceled forever.”

 

https://www.eonline.com/photos/37759/simone-biles-vs-riley-gaines-feud-timeline

Quote

Conservative activist Riley Gaines apparently had something to say to the Minnesota State High School League, which celebrated Champlin Park High School’s 2025 Class AAAA softball state championship in a June 6 X post.

Finding the comments section deactivated for anyone not already followed or mentioned by the league’s account, Gaines—a former swimmer at the University of Kentucky—reposted the happy team photo and wrote, “Comments off lol…To be expected when your star player is a boy.”

The triumphant Champlin Park team included a 17-year-old pitcher who’s a trans girl.

https://www.mediamatters.org/riley-gaines/riley-gaines-promotes-book-fox-news-calling-eighth-grade-trans-athlete-mediocre-man

Edited Tuesday at 07:45 AM by Calm

[longview]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Gaines participating in drawing negative attention to specific transgender minors by publishing photos, etc.  Not saying it was illegal taking public photos of school events and reposting them for a different purpose, but it does indeed trouble me.  I feel very bad for the kids to have that kind of attention drawn to them.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-02-09/two-transgender-athletes-describe-teen-life-on-the-front-lines-of-a-raging-national-debate

"Participating in drawing negative attention to specific . . ." is a VERY strange spin for you to be making in your continuing attempts to DEMONIZE Riley. I do not trust the LA Times with a ten foot pole but I did read the entire article. It is very lame and pathetic piece of propaganda trying desperately to paint Riley as a creature of the dark age. Not at all persuasive except for those who mindlessly chant one line slogans of political correctness and showing eagerness for evermore radicalism.

Riley is perfectly justified in commenting on public events. That includes sport competitions and championships. She is NOT narrowly focused on trans but vigorously protesting administrations for insisting on forcing women and girls to compete with trannies and being exposed to naked males in the locker room. Females DESERVE a "league of their OWN!"

7 hours ago, Calm said:

https://www.eonline.com/photos/37759/simone-biles-vs-riley-gaines-feud-timeline

All this article is doing is to quote "social justice warriors" to paint a lurid picture of the "resistence". Would Simone Biles want to be forced to compete with tranny gymnast? I really don't believe she would!

7 hours ago, Calm said:

https://www.mediamatters.org/riley-gaines/riley-gaines-promotes-book-fox-news-calling-eighth-grade-trans-athlete-mediocre-man

Thank you for posting this link. A very excellent and fair overview of what is transpiring:

Quote

RILEY GAINES: Well, it breaks my heart. But this should not be surprising to anyone anymore because the story is virtually the exact same every single time. This is becoming more and more common. It's seemingly a mediocre man who decides to switch to the women's team who becomes a record smasher and that's exactly what we have seen here.
The photo, this boy is — they are in eighth grade. This boy is built. He has bigger biceps, his legs are built. Look at him compared to the rest of the girls. And I want to commend the second place finisher — the rightful winner Ainsley Wilson, her face wasn't blurred, which means she was okay with putting her name and face out there, and I think that's applaudable. That is something that is — I understand the risk. I understand the threats. But she deserves to be deemed and called the champion. 
EARHARDT: This is purely about fairness and making sure the girls are safe. 
GAINES: That's what this is about. That's the stance we have taken. The stance, it very often gets labeled as anti-trans or transphobic, but let's be very clear; the stand that I have taken, I'm not standing against anything. I'm standing for something, and what I'm standing for is safety, I'm standing for transparency, I'm standing for privacy in areas of undressing, I'm standing for equal opportunity — the stand I have taken is pro-woman not anti-anything. 
EARHARDT: You have a new book coming out today. Great title: Swimming Against the Current. You've had to do that your whole life and now you're doing it in a different way. 
GAINES: Totally. What a fun process to now have written a book, have the title author by my name, that's insane. But really what this book is, is something I wish I had when I was struggling with this, when I was debating "I do speak up about this? Is it worth it? What is the trajectory of this? Is it something that will kind of just get swept under the rug? Do I continue on with my life?" The book is a more in-depth account of my experience, what we went through Division I National Championships in March of 2022 competing against Lia Thomas.

 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, longview said:

Riley is perfectly justified in commenting on public events.

Never said she wasn’t.  

Do you recognize she posted in the cases above actual photos of transgender minors that includes the information of their school along with other info that would allow readers to identify these minors?

Do you believe that posting such information can draw negative attention to these youth?  If not, why do you believe this does not result in cyber bullying at the very least?

If yes, do you believe Riley Gaines has enough experience with harassment and cyber bullying herself that she would recognize that such information would increase the risk of such for these minors?  If not, why do you think she would be unaware of such risks?

BTW, I have not commented on anything else Riley Gaines has done or positions she holds.  This is the one and only thing I am interested in for this thread at this point.  I believe part of protecting youth includes protecting them from harassment.  You can skip the rest if not interested in why I think drawing negative attention to minors is important enough to comment on.

I have problems with schools giving public access to their websites, though I recognize with the way kids post photos online that even if they kept their website secure as I have seen some do in the past, it wouldn’t keep school photos out of the public view.  I would prefer there was no publicity given to juvenile competition outside of family.  Everything seems to have become a major production.  Something is valued by the attention it gets.  My grandkids are involved in band and their school competes all over and the amount of money and time and intensity that is required seems too much to me.  Kids have limited unsupervised time so often for one negative factor, fitting such in between adult planned activities, which makes being on phones and other tech the most likely unplanned leisure activity since other hobbies or going out to play with friends can’t fit the limited time.

I am also against major optional juvenile surgery because I don’t believe many juvenile brains can judge accurately the risks nor are many that great at self care to minimize those risks.  Having had one similar surgery and long term after effects with pain and irritation from scarring, I believe minors should wait (preferably to mid twenties, but I realize that is unrealistic) for anything significant that is optional. 

 I also think drinking, voting, serving in the military, gambling, recreational drugs and probably marriage and major purchases and possibly living on their own outside of college shouldn’t be allowed until brain maturity as well, but that is just wishful thinking.  I would also like to see studies done on the health of celebrity children to see if there is inherent long term damage that comes from being a public figure when young. Too much attention can be damaging as is too little, but I don’t know of positive recognition offsets the cons enough.

Edited Tuesday at 08:35 PM by Calm