Being formed into Gods of their own dominions

[longview]

9 hours ago, theplains said:

Why does someone need to have eternal increase to be FULLY God?

The main focus for God the Father is to provide a Plan of Happiness for intelligences to be invited into the First Estate and begin their journey to become like Him.

God the Father has had many Eternal Rounds (as least one) but Jesus has none because he was a spirit child like we all were in the First Estate. Jesus and any of us that desire to be FULLY like God the Father has to be able to "procreate" in order to bring spirit children into the First Estate (of the next Eternal Round). If any are NOT interested in reaching the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom are also NOT willing to be worthy and qualified to bring about eternal increase.

This Eternal Round that we are currently living in does not allow any of us to procreate spirit children because: 1- we must first be exalted; 2- the work of the current Eternal Round must reach completion; 3- those qualified for the highest degree must be given a kingdom to order to begin the Next Eternal Round.

Thus NONE of us (including Jesus) will be FULLY God until we obtain a kingdom in the Next Eternal Round for the purpose of bringing in candidates for the new implementation of the Plan of Happiness.

Now repeat the above. Never ending. Forever and ever. Increasing joy and increasing love. Eternal Rounds on top of Eternal Rounds. Ever increasing dominions.

[InCognitus]

On 12/23/2025 at 8:24 AM, theplains said:

On 12/17/2025 at 2:50 PM, InCognitus said:

So?  As we have discussed, this was also an early Christian teaching as well.  Why don't other Christians (other than the Latter-day Saints) teach what the earliest Christians taught on this subject?

So?  The earliest Christians also implied this in their teachings (i.e. "How, then, shall he be a God, who has not as yet been made a man?").  So what's the point?

Many things have been taught that are not supported by scripture.

Of course (like the doctrine of a homoousious Father and Son, or the doctrine of God creating all things out of nothing [creatio ex-nihilo], or that there is such a thing as a nature of angels, or that angels have wings, or that God created the spirits of men, to name just a few).

But the earliest Christians based their teachings on scripture and on the verbal teachings of the apostles that they received from them (some of them were taught by the apostles directly).  Who do you think would be more likely to interpret the scriptures correctly, the same way as Jesus and the apostles?  Those who lived the closest to the time of Jesus and the apostles and were either taught directly by them or by someone else who had had been taught directly by them, or those who live 2000 years later and are influenced by dozens of creeds and are bound to supporting the unbiblical doctrines that I listed above?

On 12/23/2025 at 8:24 AM, theplains said:

It appears you do believe Heavenly Father became a God before he became a Father of spirit
children.

Where did you get that idea?

[InCognitus]

On 12/23/2025 at 8:26 AM, theplains said:

On 12/17/2025 at 2:50 PM, InCognitus said:

So "one" in the way that Jesus defined it in John 17:11, 20-23?  Or some other way?

Christians becoming or being one like the Father and Jesus being one does not mean
we become God or a Godhead.

Do you believe Jesus and his Father are "one" in the way that Jesus defined it in John 17:11, 20-23?  Or some other way?  (It sounds like some other way since you didn't answer the question).

As for the disciples of Christ who become "one" with Jesus and his Father in the same way Jesus is one with his Father, they definitely become one with them and each other, so much so that Jesus says that to receive one of his disciples that he sends out is the same as receiving Jesus and his Father.  That's exactly why receiving Jesus is the same as receiving his Father, as well.

[theplains]

On 12/26/2025 at 2:30 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Uh, you are throwing your interpretation on that "couplet". Let me play!

"As man is [mortal], God once was [mortal]. As God is [exalted], man may become [exalted]."

* See how that works? Now...

Do you believe the "couplet" is impossible?

Was Jesus, who is exalted, once mortal? **

Your version works if you change the context a little - changing what "is" and "was"
represent.

Another version would be

"As man is [not immortal], God once was [not immortal].
As God is [now immortal], man may become [immortal]".

This keeps apples to apples, not mixing apples with oranges.

Jesus became a mortal man, but he was always the immortal and Eternal God before the incarnation.

I think my interpretation of the "couplet" is still valid if I were to believe Lorenzo Snow.

"As man is [not a God now] God once was [not a God once]. 
As God is [now a God], man may become [a God in the future]".

[theplains]

On 12/27/2025 at 12:18 AM, longview said:

Thus NONE of us (including Jesus) will be FULLY God until we obtain a kingdom in the Next Eternal Round for the purpose of bringing in candidates for the new implementation of the Plan of Happiness.

How do you believe Heavenly Father became a FULL God?

[theplains]

22 hours ago, InCognitus said:

Do you believe Jesus and his Father are "one" in the way that Jesus defined it in John 17:11, 20-23?  Or some other way?  (It sounds like some other way since you didn't answer the question).

As for the disciples of Christ who become "one" with Jesus and his Father in the same way Jesus is one with his Father, they definitely become one with them and each other, so much so that Jesus says that to receive one of his disciples that he sends out is the same as receiving Jesus and his Father.  That's exactly why receiving Jesus is the same as receiving his Father, as well.

Christians becoming or being one like the Father and Jesus being one does not mean
we become God or a Godhead.

But I understand that the LDS Jesus, when he became a God, joined the Godhead.

[theplains]

On 12/28/2025 at 4:45 PM, InCognitus said:

On 12/23/2025 at 10:24 AM, theplains said:

It appears you do believe Heavenly Father became a God before he became a Father of spirit
children.

Where did you get that idea?

I suppose you believed both Heavenly Mother and Father became Gods when they
were born to their heavenly parents.

If you disagree, then tell me how you believe Heavenly Mother became a God.

[ZealouslyStriving]

@theplains it has been explained to you several times that there are two basic views floating around Latter-day Saint circles. You are insisting that we must accept your non-LDS, critic version of "Infinite Regression"- and keep asking the same question over and over and over again, ad infinitum.

It's old. You've had opinions expressed to you several times. It is time to accept those opinions, even if you don't agree with them. I'm getting off this Ground Hog Day hamster wheel. It's time to move on.

[longview]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

How do you believe Heavenly Father became a FULL God?

You are severely lacking in focus. Please re-read the entirety of my December 26 post you took the snippet from. Read it step by step. Take notes if you have to.

Here. I'll help you:

1. intelligences never having a beginning. always self aware.
2. spirit children invited into the First Estate.
3. mortal flesh and blood body for experiencing good and evil in fallen world, the Second Estate.
4. probationary time for reconciliation and judgements in spirit paradise or prison.
5. resurrection into one of three degrees of glory.
6. if in TOP degree of the Celestial Kingdom, be assigned to a kingdom for starting a new Plan of Happiness, the next Eternal Round.
7. only in this new kingdom can there be Eternal Increase thus becoming FULLY God.

Heavenly Father went thru ALL of those steps just as the Gospel teaches. There are plenty of evidences in the Bible supporting this kind of progression.

That should set you up. If not, then I will bow out. Adieu.

Edited December 30, 2025 by longview

[rodheadlee]

On 12/29/2025 at 5:56 PM, longview said:

You are severely lacking in focus. Please re-read the entirety of my December 26 post you took the snippet from. Read it step by step. Take notes if you have to.

Here. I'll help you:

1. intelligences never having a beginning. always self aware.
2. spirit children invited into the First Estate.
3. mortal flesh and blood body for experiencing good and evil in fallen world, the Second Estate.
4. probationary time for reconciliation and judgements in spirit paradise or prison.
5. resurrection into one of three degrees of glory.
6. if in TOP degree of the Celestial Kingdom, be assigned to a kingdom for starting a new Plan of Happiness, the next Eternal Round.
7. only in this new kingdom can there be Eternal Increase thus becoming FULLY God.

Heavenly Father went thru ALL of those steps just as the Gospel teaches. There are plenty of evidences in the Bible supporting this kind of progression.

That should set you up. If not, then I will bow out. Adieu.

Point!

[InCognitus]

On 12/29/2025 at 2:45 PM, theplains said:

Christians becoming or being one like the Father and Jesus being one does not mean
we become God or a Godhead.

You said that already (multiple times).  You like to deny many things, but you don't ever say what it really does mean. 

What does Jesus and his Father being "one" in the way that Jesus defined it in John 17:11, 20-23 mean for Jesus and his Father?  What does that mean for all the rest of us?

[InCognitus]

On 12/29/2025 at 3:00 PM, theplains said:

I suppose you believed both Heavenly Mother and Father became Gods when they
were born to their heavenly parents.

I suppose you believe I will answer this question differently than I have answered this question every other time you've asked it (over and over)?

You basically admitted that your idea that Heavenly Father was "born to heavenly parents" was a so-called “extrapolation”, so it is just speculation and opinion.  

And given what Joseph Smith taught about God the Father as the “head God” and what the revealed word of God teaches, which is that God is the “God of all other gods”, there doesn’t seem to be room for such speculation about God the Father being “a spirit child of heavenly parents”.

[theplains]

On 12/29/2025 at 8:56 PM, longview said:

You are severely lacking in focus. Please re-read the entirety of my December 26 post you took the snippet from. Read it step by step. Take notes if you have to.

Here. I'll help you:

1. intelligences never having a beginning. always self aware.
2. spirit children invited into the First Estate.
3. mortal flesh and blood body for experiencing good and evil in fallen world, the Second Estate.
4. probationary time for reconciliation and judgements in spirit paradise or prison.
5. resurrection into one of three degrees of glory.
6. if in TOP degree of the Celestial Kingdom, be assigned to a kingdom for starting a new Plan of Happiness, the next Eternal Round.
7. only in this new kingdom can there be Eternal Increase thus becoming FULLY God.

Heavenly Father went thru ALL of those steps just as the Gospel teaches. There are plenty of evidences in the Bible supporting this kind of progression.

That should set you up. If not, then I will bow out. Adieu.

In step 2, who formed and invited the spirit child (the future Heavenly Father of our Earth) 
into his First Estate?

At which stage do you believe Heavenly Father became a God who was not FULLY God?

[theplains]

On 1/1/2026 at 10:39 AM, InCognitus said:

You said that already (multiple times).  You like to deny many things, but you don't ever say what it really does mean. 

What does Jesus and his Father being "one" in the way that Jesus defined it in John 17:11, 20-23 mean for Jesus and his Father?  What does that mean for all the rest of us?

I would say it means one in union (as in belief/purpose), but not one in the sense of becoming God
or becoming a member of the Godhead.

[theplains]

On 1/1/2026 at 10:44 AM, InCognitus said:

And given what Joseph Smith taught about God the Father as the “head God” and what the revealed word of God teaches, which is that God is the “God of all other gods”, there doesn’t seem to be room for such speculation about God the Father being “a spirit child of heavenly parents”.

The Joseph Smith Papers, on page 103, says

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-f-1-1-may-1844-8-august-1844/109#historical-intro

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-f-1-1-may-1844-8-august-1844/109#full-transcript

<June 16> go away satisfied, well and good. [HC 6:475] In the very beginning <the bible shews> 
there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling 
on; the word Eloheim ought to be the plural all the way through—Gods; the heads of the Gods 
appointed one God for us; and when you take a view of the subject, it sets one free to see all 
the beauty, holiness, and perfection of the Gods.

Who are the heads of the Gods?  Did they appoint Jesus or Heavenly Father as the one
God for us?

As for your believed view that there doesn't seem to be room for God the Father being a spirit
child of heavenly parents, where did Heavenly Mother come from and how did she become a
God?

By the way, Gospel Principles (1997) mentions a few things which infer that the heavenly parents
of our Earth became Gods. In the current version, they reduced the number of references to 
heavenly parents and instead focused on Heavenly Father.

[teddyaware]

10 hours ago, theplains said:

I would say it means one in union (as in belief/purpose), but not one in the sense of becoming God
or becoming a member of the Godhead.

If God has all power in heaven and earth, and if by Christ’s own testimony “all things are possible with God;” and if we are created in God’s own image and through Jesus Christ we are made partakers of God’s own divine nature, what would prevent our Father in Heaven from earnestly desiring to make us joint heirs with Christ in the fullness of all things that he possesses, including the right to be seated upon his very throne as heavenly kings who are “filled with all the fullness of God?” And if, as the Apostle John testifies, “God is light and in him is no darkness at all,” what possible righteous motivation could God have to leave his faithful children lingering in any measure of darkness?

Edited January 6 by teddyaware

[InCognitus]

12 hours ago, theplains said:

I would say it means one in union (as in belief/purpose), but not one in the sense of becoming God
or becoming a member of the Godhead.

Where do you believe the Bible teaches how God is "one God", if not in John 17:11, 20-23?

[InCognitus]

12 hours ago, theplains said:

The Joseph Smith Papers, on page 103, says

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-f-1-1-may-1844-8-august-1844/109#historical-intro

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-f-1-1-may-1844-8-august-1844/109#full-transcript

<June 16> go away satisfied, well and good. [HC 6:475] In the very beginning <the bible shews> 
there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling 
on; the word Eloheim ought to be the plural all the way through—Gods; the heads of the Gods 
appointed one God for us; and when you take a view of the subject, it sets one free to see all 
the beauty, holiness, and perfection of the Gods.

Who are the heads of the Gods?  Did they appoint Jesus or Heavenly Father as the one
God for us?

Joseph Smith makes that clear in his King Follet Discourse:

“The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand councilors sat at the head in yonder heavens and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at the time.”

So the "heads of the Gods" are God the Father (who called the grand council) and his grand council.  But as you can see, this was directed by the one and only "head God" (God the Father).

God the Father was already "the head God", so he wasn't appointed.

12 hours ago, theplains said:

As for your believed view that there doesn't seem to be room for God the Father being a spirit
child of heavenly parents, where did Heavenly Mother come from and how did she become a
God?

We have no information on that question.  But, I presume it was by following the plan established by the "head God", God the Father.

12 hours ago, theplains said:

By the way, Gospel Principles (1997) mentions a few things which infer that the heavenly parents
of our Earth became Gods. In the current version, they reduced the number of references to 
heavenly parents and instead focused on Heavenly Father.

What in the 1997 Gospel Principles manual "mentions a few things which infer that heavenly parents of our Earth became Gods"?  Make sure your examples include that they are "heavenly parents of our Earth".

[Kenngo1969]

On 12/1/2025 at 1:29 PM, theplains said:

Apparently? Then he should have called the book "Speculations and Opinions of Salvation".

Umm, @theplains?  Joseph Fielding Smith didn't write Doctrines [sic] of Salvation.  Just sayin'!  

[ZealouslyStriving]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Umm, @theplains?  Joseph Fielding Smith didn't write Doctrines [sic] of Salvation.  Just sayin'!  

Elder McConkie had a thing for putting "doctrine" in titles:

* Doctrines of Salvation 

*Doctrines of the Gospel

* Mormon Doctrine 

 

[Kenngo1969]

19 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Elder McConkie had a thing for putting "doctrine" in titles:

* Doctrines of Salvation 

*Doctrines of the Gospel

* Mormon Doctrine 

 

Yes, he was quite doctrinaire, wasn't he?

[InCognitus]

On 1/6/2026 at 7:31 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Elder McConkie had a thing for putting "doctrine" in titles:

* Doctrines of Salvation 

*Doctrines of the Gospel

* Mormon Doctrine 

Also:

Doctrinal New Testament Commentary

[theplains]

On 1/6/2026 at 5:31 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

Umm, @theplains?  Joseph Fielding Smith didn't write Doctrines [sic] of Salvation.  Just sayin'!  

You are correct in a way.  It's technically referred to as "SERMONS & WRITINGS OF JOSEPH FIELDING 
SMITH" compiled by Bruce R. McConkie.

Another publication, "The Way of Perfection", is not specified in that manner.

[theplains]

On 1/5/2026 at 12:30 PM, teddyaware said:

If God has all power in heaven and earth, and if by Christ’s own testimony “all things are possible with God;” and if we are created in God’s own image and through Jesus Christ we are made partakers of God’s own divine nature, what would prevent our Father in Heaven from earnestly desiring to make us joint heirs with Christ in the fullness of all things that he possesses, including the right to be seated upon his very throne as heavenly kings who are “filled with all the fullness of God?” And if, as the Apostle John testifies, “God is light and in him is no darkness at all,” what possible righteous motivation could God have to leave his faithful children lingering in any measure of darkness?

Saved Christians are not left lingering in darkness.  "He rescued us from the authority of the 
darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son". (Colossians 1:13).

Taught again in 2 Corinthians 4.  "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them 
which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should 
shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants 
for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our 
hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ".

We don't need to become Gods to have this light.

[theplains]

On 1/6/2026 at 12:44 AM, InCognitus said:

Where do you believe the Bible teaches how God is "one God", if not in John 17:11, 20-23?

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Deuteronomy 6:4).
"I am the LORD, and there is no other" (Isaiah 45:5). 
"I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god" (Isaiah 44:6).
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" (Mark 12:29).
"There is no God but one" (1 Corinthians 8:4).
"One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:6).
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5).