Rain

Thank you!

Yes, I'm aware. But this is not like LDS Mormons not wanting to be identified as FLDS Mormons. It's FLDS Mormons not wanting LDS Mormons and Lebaron Mormons and Strangite Mormons as Mormon.

Both in my husband's mission and in my mission we had Assemblies of God congregations doing so. They say on their website they are evangelical. A missionary in my mission was a member of that church and grew very concerned about her mormon friends because all of the big classes and anti-mormon things the churches in her area were putting on so she looked into this church and joined it. I met so many people who declared themselves baptist and evangelical and would denigrate the church. i know this is a big thing for you, but I have so much experience with people telling me they are evangelical and then saying so many things about the church. if you have a problem with it, then maybe instead of trying to correct those of us with bad experiences, you should try to correct those who say they are evangelical and denigrate members of the church.

They are not listed at all technically. It is the Strangite church that is listed. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. No dash and it is a capital D.

Officially? No, but it wouldn't surprise me if individuals did it on an occasion for personal reasons.

This is the oddest thing to me and tells me they haven't read their Book of Mormon very closely. Alma 46:15 And those who did belong to the church were faithful; yea, all those who were true believers in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come

That drove me a bit nuts. Some of the questions were clearly about my own beliefs. Some were asked as how I understood LDS doctrine. Those won't necessarily be the same thing, even if I still believed in the church. Then we have some questions like, "How do you understand LDS canonized scripture (the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price)?" How do I understand it? Like languagewise? Or through the Spirit? Or maybe what do I understand it to be? Or what do I believe it to be? Then there was an answer I accidentally taped and it wouldn't go back or let me answer correctly. 75% Givens 74% progressive

I finally realized why, when you started saying things like this, it flooded me with irritation. It's because it is a form of "asking you to walk on eggshells or constantly soften your words to protect men’s feelings." You may not mean it that way, but it comes across that way. You probably have a thousand ways to tell me I am wrong, but honestly, saying these kinds of things is what makes many women feel they can not speak up. If nothing else, please listen to what I have said in this post and prayerfully consider it for a day or 2. I don't expect you to have respect for me, but please consider how this affects the women around you.

Because it doesn't get people talking and listening. Because it gets ignored. Because frankly, people don't care enough about it for it to stick. It doesn't stick in the discussion. It doesn't stick in the minds of the people hearing it. It doesn't create action. It doesn't make people think. It doesn't make people question their actions. Oh, I know there will be a little bit of men doing that, but even my own husband, who is very aware of this kind of thing, gets caught on what might make a woman nervous, so I don't expect it to make men who don't get it to think about it much.

I'm not talking about judging them. If the constitution is only supposed to work in places where people are moral, then I don't see why we can't question whether the premise works if the writers were not moral. In order to do that you have to figure out what is moral. So again, is it moral to own slaves and commit adultery? If not, how did the constitution work then? If they are moral, then what immoral things would make it not work now?

I think a good question is, "what makes someone moral and religious?" If you are a slave owner are you moral and religious? What if you have extra marital affairs? Some of the people who created the constitition did those things. So what does moral and religious mean?

I appreciate this. One of my favorite quotes has always been President Kimball's "God does hear our prayers, but it is usually through another that he meets are needs." You are right that only God can heal somethings, but I think as men start both listening and hearing they will be in a better place to know how they can start being an other who He uses to help meet the needs. The fact that you listened and heard goes so much farther than you know. As a side note there is a buddist monk, Thich Nhat Hanh, who writes about the connections between us and our ancestors and all others. It was interesting to read with my church background and see the connections. In it he talks about how our suffering is our ancestor's and their suffering is ours which kind of goes with your DNA idea. I wouldn't go so far as a collective guilt, but I do think our choices affect the suffering of far more people than we realize.

I haven't figured out what I want to be called since I'm technically a member and go to church most weeks (to support my husband) as well as other things. I don't participate in any former member groups. When I finally figure it out it probably won't include any church name. If the topic comes up I'm likely to just say "I no longer believe." In other words, I just don't care which way others title themself. But I think using the word "Mormon" as part of their titles has far more to do with history than because the church doesn't want people to say the word Mormon. Exmormon was around far before President Nelson changed everything. I'm sure there will be some who do use it that way, but I would be surprised if most do.

Thank you.

When I was on my mission we went to teach an 85 year old, short old man. We didn't think anything of it - he's old! At one point I turned to use the phone. When I turned around he had his arms tight around my comanion and was kissing her and it was obvious she did not like it! I tried to remove his arms from around her, but he was much stronger than I was. I learned quickly that being old did not make someone I could trust. Yes.

I have written a reply to you 3 times, but the board has made them disappear. Hopefully this one will work. Stephen Covey (I think) said, paraphrased, "seek first to understand and then seek to be understood." This goes very well with what you have quoted of the book. You admitted where you weren't doing well with the book steps. I'm a little frustrated that you didn't end up doing the steps and then instead of trying again (change often takes time and lots of tries) you concluded that step 10 was where the subject would need to end. I think it interesting that you recognize some of the LDS women you admire and respect, but then when you fail to go through the steps to actually understand them (note I didn't say agree, I said understand them) you accuse them of ugliness. Like those things you admired about them didn't make you pause and wonder if it was really them being ugly or if maybe you just didn't understand. Those women deserve better than that - at least until you actually understand them.

Thanks! I always just imagined it like a sealing room behind the door like the others. Funny thing was I could not imagine it without multiple chairs around the walls for some reason.

Huh. I don't remember them, but then I only went to Salt Lake a couple of times. I do remember the stairs to a sealing room in the corner.

Am I understanding right that the stairs were added? Or are they just behind the closed doors from the Celestial Room?

I don't have any problem with loving one another. I just disagree that using the brother and sister titles is part of that in most cases where church members use it, at least in the areas I have lived. Using the titles does not necessarily signify loving, blessing, doing good will.

I hope that goes well too.

And to make it more confusing for you, women missionaries are titled Sister, but every female member of the church is also titled Sister, but somehow the missionary one is more of a title and the ever female one is more of a connector.

As far as I am aware I accept cookies here and I'm always logged in. It's rare that I deny cookies and this wouldn't be one of those places. It would only be by accident.

The pictures are especially annoying on the phone where they are so small! Edit: Well, that's a first! I just clicked submit on this post and the bot box came up. I thought I would lose the post when it displayed a weird page. I can see even better why you would be frustrated.

To be clear, I don't feel this way about every time a member says brother or sister. Sometimes it is habit. Sometimes the person doesn't know the other person's first name. Often it is just a cultural thing. I also think in some areas of the world and with a few people it does denote closeness, it's just does not happen very often in my experience. Also, with what else the sealer said and how he acted and the timing it came out so much stronger than it usually does, but yes, overall, that is why I never liked being called Sister.