Rain

I'm not talking about judging them. If the constitution is only supposed to work in places where people are moral, then I don't see why we can't question whether the premise works if the writers were not moral. In order to do that you have to figure out what is moral. So again, is it moral to own slaves and commit adultery? If not, how did the constitution work then? If they are moral, then what immoral things would make it not work now?

I think a good question is, "what makes someone moral and religious?" If you are a slave owner are you moral and religious? What if you have extra marital affairs? Some of the people who created the constitition did those things. So what does moral and religious mean?

I appreciate this. One of my favorite quotes has always been President Kimball's "God does hear our prayers, but it is usually through another that he meets are needs." You are right that only God can heal somethings, but I think as men start both listening and hearing they will be in a better place to know how they can start being an other who He uses to help meet the needs. The fact that you listened and heard goes so much farther than you know. As a side note there is a buddist monk, Thich Nhat Hanh, who writes about the connections between us and our ancestors and all others. It was interesting to read with my church background and see the connections. In it he talks about how our suffering is our ancestor's and their suffering is ours which kind of goes with your DNA idea. I wouldn't go so far as a collective guilt, but I do think our choices affect the suffering of far more people than we realize.

I haven't figured out what I want to be called since I'm technically a member and go to church most weeks (to support my husband) as well as other things. I don't participate in any former member groups. When I finally figure it out it probably won't include any church name. If the topic comes up I'm likely to just say "I no longer believe." In other words, I just don't care which way others title themself. But I think using the word "Mormon" as part of their titles has far more to do with history than because the church doesn't want people to say the word Mormon. Exmormon was around far before President Nelson changed everything. I'm sure there will be some who do use it that way, but I would be surprised if most do.

Thank you.

When I was on my mission we went to teach an 85 year old, short old man. We didn't think anything of it - he's old! At one point I turned to use the phone. When I turned around he had his arms tight around my comanion and was kissing her and it was obvious she did not like it! I tried to remove his arms from around her, but he was much stronger than I was. I learned quickly that being old did not make someone I could trust. Yes.

I have written a reply to you 3 times, but the board has made them disappear. Hopefully this one will work. Stephen Covey (I think) said, paraphrased, "seek first to understand and then seek to be understood." This goes very well with what you have quoted of the book. You admitted where you weren't doing well with the book steps. I'm a little frustrated that you didn't end up doing the steps and then instead of trying again (change often takes time and lots of tries) you concluded that step 10 was where the subject would need to end. I think it interesting that you recognize some of the LDS women you admire and respect, but then when you fail to go through the steps to actually understand them (note I didn't say agree, I said understand them) you accuse them of ugliness. Like those things you admired about them didn't make you pause and wonder if it was really them being ugly or if maybe you just didn't understand. Those women deserve better than that - at least until you actually understand them.

Thanks! I always just imagined it like a sealing room behind the door like the others. Funny thing was I could not imagine it without multiple chairs around the walls for some reason.

Huh. I don't remember them, but then I only went to Salt Lake a couple of times. I do remember the stairs to a sealing room in the corner.

Am I understanding right that the stairs were added? Or are they just behind the closed doors from the Celestial Room?

I don't have any problem with loving one another. I just disagree that using the brother and sister titles is part of that in most cases where church members use it, at least in the areas I have lived. Using the titles does not necessarily signify loving, blessing, doing good will.

I hope that goes well too.

And to make it more confusing for you, women missionaries are titled Sister, but every female member of the church is also titled Sister, but somehow the missionary one is more of a title and the ever female one is more of a connector.

As far as I am aware I accept cookies here and I'm always logged in. It's rare that I deny cookies and this wouldn't be one of those places. It would only be by accident.

The pictures are especially annoying on the phone where they are so small! Edit: Well, that's a first! I just clicked submit on this post and the bot box came up. I thought I would lose the post when it displayed a weird page. I can see even better why you would be frustrated.

To be clear, I don't feel this way about every time a member says brother or sister. Sometimes it is habit. Sometimes the person doesn't know the other person's first name. Often it is just a cultural thing. I also think in some areas of the world and with a few people it does denote closeness, it's just does not happen very often in my experience. Also, with what else the sealer said and how he acted and the timing it came out so much stronger than it usually does, but yes, overall, that is why I never liked being called Sister.

I've only had it come up when I first come to the board. Probably every 2nd or 3rd visit. Once I do it at the beginning of a session it doesn't come up again.

The timing of you talking about this hits me. I never liked the brother and sister thing. I recognize that it is a doctrinal reminder of our relationship with each other as literal children of God, but it has always felt like forced closeness with members of the chuch meerly because of membership in the church. It hit me pretty hard this weekend. My son was married and a few hours later was sealed. Afterwards, the sealer came out to talk with me. He called me "Sister _____" and like I've done for years before my church struggles started because it always felt fake, I said my first name. He grimaced and then went on with what he planned to say, never acknowledging what I preferred to be called. It felt performative and controlling, not looking on my heart and seeing me. Anyway, like calm says it will vary on who is saying it, but in my experience, brother and sister are used to enforce fake closeness because of membership in the church.

I'm glad there is only one. Hopefully he will get lonely and just leave!

Yes, but accepting those claims requires a private spiritual feeling/subjective inward impression. So, while what you talk about here is not quite the same as what Navidad talks about, it still hinges on private inspiration.

I hope things are going better than you worried about.

The problem is that everything in your church also hinges on private experience.

I should have been more clear. I was not talking about John, but the parts around the part with John: "it seems to me that podcasters are all about getting more clicks and subscribers. It is all about the money. I am sure that John maybe making money from all this. On a side note if the money was taking away from most podcasters, they would fold like a house of cards. It would not be worth the time spent."

Yes. Since I've stopped believing, things church members say have hit me in a whole new way, but over this weekend with my son getting married it has hit even harder with so many things said. I actually think this is an every person problem, as evidenced in my time with working with charities, but I think it hits harder in the church, because it is so much about much about gathering.

Couldn't you say the same about any job or side hustle?