Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

strappinglad

The Mark Of The Beast

Recommended Posts

It is interesting that DenMARK is proposing a cashless society. I refer to Rev 13:16 .

 

 The idea for banning  cash transactions  is gaining acceptance around the world and perhaps it is a ' sign ' of the times.

 

 Here is a link to the proposed law.

http://fortune.com/2015/05/22/denmark-paper-money/

Share this post


Link to post

Nah ... everyone around here knows that rep points are the real Mark of the Beast! ;)

Share this post


Link to post

It is interesting that DenMARK is proposing a cashless society. I refer to Rev 13:16 . The idea for banning cash transactions is gaining acceptance around the world and perhaps it is a ' sign ' of the times. Here is a link to the proposed law.http://fortune.com/2015/05/22/denmark-paper-money/

The world will scoff at those who worry about such news and say anyone who's concerned about technological developments that will make our private lives transparent to the government are fanatical alarmists. But that's what folks of that stripe always say until the yoke of totalitarianism is fastened tightly around their necks. This kind of fatuous thinking is usually found among those who don't believe there's a real devil.

Share this post


Link to post

i am pretty sure Revelations is referring to the saints being ostracized from society for not conforming and not some nebulous technological change ending cash. The bakers will refuse to bake LDS wedding cakes because they are LDS. The saints will be pariahs to some degree.

It is important to remember the Book of Revelation was addressed to the ancient saints fighting a losing battle. The idea that John would include cryptic advice meaningless to the intended audience is silly. John was saying some of the readers would get this. Did he really mean that members of the seven churches would receive by revelation confirmation that they should not let people implant electronic credit cards in their hands or foreheads?

If this is a real threat I expect the apostles to speak out on the matter. They seem silent. This is a Protestant superstition we picked up.

Share this post


Link to post

i am pretty sure Revelations is referring to the saints being ostracized from society for not conforming and not some nebulous technological change ending cash. The bakers will refuse to bake LDS wedding cakes because they are LDS. The saints will be pariahs to some degree.

It is important to remember the Book of Revelation was addressed to the ancient saints fighting a losing battle. The idea that John would include cryptic advice meaningless to the intended audience is silly. John was saying some of the readers would get this. Did he really mean that members of the seven churches would receive by revelation confirmation that they should not let people implant electronic credit cards in their hands or foreheads?

If this is a real threat I expect the apostles to speak out on the matter. They seem silent. This is a Protestant superstition we picked up.

Are you aware of the fact that in 1 Nephi 14, at the end of Nephi's great vision, no less than an angel from heaven informes Nephi that the apostle John will receive the same vision he had (the brother of Jared also received the same great panoramic prophetic vision) and that a significant portion of the revelation of John will be concerned with the end of the world?

18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!

19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.

20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.

22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world. 1 Nephi 14

Share this post


Link to post

Are you aware of the fact that in 1 Nephi 14, at the end of Nephi's great vision, no less than an angel from heaven informes Nephi that the apostle John will receive the same vision he had (the brother of Jared also received the same great panoramic prophetic vision) and that a significant portion of the revelation of John will be concerned with the end of the world?

18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!

19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.

20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.

22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world. 1 Nephi 14

 

I am completely aware of that fact. It does concern events at the end of the world. We should still expect things to be written into the account for its initial audience as well as for those reading it later. It was written as a consolation to dying churches facing real persecution and annihilation. It was a consolation to them that one day right would prevail. For the same reason Isaiah and other prophets dwelt on the last dispensation with hope and even a bit of quasi-holy envy of the dispensation that would not in the end need to flee but would deliver to Satan a crushing defeat.

 

There is a reason Joseph Smith told us to leave "beasts" alone in prophecy. It tends to crank warnings and alarmism. I admit I do not myself leave them alone entirely. I speculate some about them but to take stands on political issues or warn against societal trends based on such feeble evidence is unwise. There may be perfectly good reasons that the transition to a cashless society would be dangerous. I even agree with some of them and before I would get onboard with such a change I would want some serious matters. Speculative guesses about the Mark of the Beast created by largely deranged End-Times enthusiasts is not a good reason. If God wanted to reveal to us the nature of the Mark I think he would have chosen a much more trustworthy messenger.

Share this post


Link to post

i am pretty sure Revelations is referring to the saints being ostracized from society for not conforming and not some nebulous technological change ending cash. The bakers will refuse to bake LDS wedding cakes because they are LDS. The saints will be pariahs to some degree.

It is important to remember the Book of Revelation was addressed to the ancient saints fighting a losing battle. The idea that John would include cryptic advice meaningless to the intended audience is silly. John was saying some of the readers would get this. Did he really mean that members of the seven churches would receive by revelation confirmation that they should not let people implant electronic credit cards in their hands or foreheads?

If this is a real threat I expect the apostles to speak out on the matter. They seem silent. This is a Protestant superstition we picked up.

Come on you're not really serious, are you? 

Share this post


Link to post

Where is that tongue-in-cheek emoticon when I need it ??

I do wonder, if we go to a cashless society, how I will pay the young lad who mows my lawn every couple of weeks. Maybe there will be an app for that .

Share this post


Link to post

Come on you're not really serious, are you? 

 

In general, no. In this case, yeah.

 

Edit: On a lighter note I typed in a search for the Mark of the Beast and our church and found some of the most hilarious paranoid ramblings I have read for some time. In the last few minutes I learned that we will be barcoded by the Chinese, that the mark is an actual spirit body mark placed on the devil's followers specifically LDS members who are worldly and persecute the true faithful (i.e. church members that the person does not like), that having a Facebook profile is the Mark itself, that it is Amazon who will soon control all economic activity, that the Mark will be given by the Catholics and is the cross applied on Ash Wednesday, and that the church has become an evil corporation that already bears the mark itself and your bishop is waiting to weed out and report the malcontents to the government.

 

What a delightful collection of nuts we are.

Share this post


Link to post

In general, no. In this case, yeah.

 

Edit: On a lighter note I typed in a search for the Mark of the Beast and our church and found some of the most hilarious paranoid ramblings I have read for some time. In the last few minutes I learned that we will be barcoded by the Chinese, that the mark is an actual spirit body mark placed on the devil's followers specifically LDS members who are worldly and persecute the true faithful (i.e. church members that the person does not like), that having a Facebook profile is the Mark itself, that it is Amazon who will soon control all economic activity, that the Mark will be given by the Catholics and is the cross applied on Ash Wednesday, and that the church has become an evil corporation that already bears the mark itself and your bishop is waiting to weed out and report the malcontents to the government.

 

What a delightful collection of nuts we are.

Well it could be my Protestant pre LDS life but I take the verses to mean what they say.

 

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
  16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
  17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
  18 Here is awisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescoreand six.
 
The beast is artificial intelligence. see Daniel 11:
 
  38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
 
A god whom his fathers knew not is technology , computers, artificial intelligence. My opinion of course.

Share this post


Link to post

 

Well it could be my Protestant pre LDS life but I take the verses to mean what they say.

 

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
  16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
  17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
  18 Here is awisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescoreand six.
 
The beast is artificial intelligence. see Daniel 11:
 
  38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
 
A god whom his fathers knew not is technology , computers, artificial intelligence. My opinion of course.

 

 

So you insist it means exactly what is says while also insisting that when they say "beast" they mean technology because a "god whom his fathers knew not" is definitely technology. That is a strange juxtaposition.

 

It also makes the assumption that now both Daniel and John were saying things their initial audience had no hope of understanding. How often does President Monson speak of things that will only be understood by those at the end of Millenium when Satan is loosed and we just nod and accept that this is clearly nonsense to us but that our descendants will understand?

Share this post


Link to post

So you insist it means exactly what is says while also insisting that when they say "beast" they mean technology because a "god whom his fathers knew not" is definitely technology. That is a strange juxtaposition.

 

It also makes the assumption that now both Daniel and John were saying things their initial audience had no hope of understanding. How often does President Monson speak of things that will only be understood by those at the end of Millenium when Satan is loosed and we just nod and accept that this is clearly nonsense to us but that our descendants will understand?

Well it's a deep subject but at the end of Daniel's dream the Angel tells him:  8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the aend of these things?

  9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and asealed till the time of the end.
  10 Many shall be apurified, and made white, and btried; but the cwicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shalldunderstand.
 
So, help me to understand. I've been stuck at Rev 13:6/Daniel 11-12 for quite some time, stupor of thought. Strappinglads post knocked some things loose. How do you think Daniel would describe people walking around staring at I pads/Iphones all day and night? How do you think John would describe drones, robots, AI, Cobra attack choppers, fighter jets, atomic bombs etc. How do think John would describe a microchip injected under the skin to ID people, just like a cat. My new kittens came with their marks already installed. But hey I'm open to being taught. I looked ahead in our SS manual and we don't study Rev 13 this year along with the rest of the NT. How could Joseph Smith describe these things any better than John or Daniel? 

Share this post


Link to post

 

Well it's a deep subject but at the end of Daniel's dream the Angel tells him:  8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the aend of these things?

  9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and asealed till the time of the end.
  10 Many shall be apurified, and made white, and btried; but the cwicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shalldunderstand.
 
So, help me to understand. I've been stuck at Rev 13:6/Daniel 11-12 for quite some time, stupor of thought. Strappinglads post knocked some things loose. How do you think Daniel would describe people walking around staring at I pads/Iphones all day and night? How do you think John would describe drones, robots, AI, Cobra attack choppers, fighter jets, atomic bombs etc. How do think John would describe a microchip injected under the skin to ID people, just like a cat. My new kittens came with their marks already installed. But hey I'm open to being taught. I looked ahead in our SS manual and we don't study Rev 13 this year along with the rest of the NT. How could Joseph Smith describe these things any better than John or Daniel? 

 

 

Strappinglad was just trying to be funny though-he wasn't being serious-so it may help to consider that.  :)

Share this post


Link to post

Well, I read that "www" was 666 in Hebrew.  And since you can't buy and sell without the internet today.... :diablo:

 

 

(I'm kidding of course - the www thing has been disproven many times...)

Share this post


Link to post

Well, I read that "www" was 666 in Hebrew. And since you can't buy and sell without the internet today.... :diablo:

(I'm kidding of course - the www thing has been disproven many times...)

But it is a "human number", so it can't be the inturnetz. Cause the internetz isn't human.

Share this post


Link to post

Strappinglad was just trying to be funny though-he wasn't being serious-so it may help to consider that.   :)

Yeah, I get that. I'm trying to figure out exactly what our teachings on these verses are.

Share this post


Link to post

Aside from my ATTEMPT at humor ( gee thanks, bluebell ) . There is a broader implication for a cashless society. As the article I linked to says, banks want to charge you interest for keeping money there. We now pay all kinds of fees but it is a major change to be charged a percentage on what you have in your account. Senior citizens , who have saved up for their retirement, as they have been told all their lives to do, will see their money chiseled away instead of getting an increase on their savings. The mantra will now be spend all you have ( eat , drink , and be merry...) otherwise you will lose it all. Not only will all transactions be apparent to government and banks, but the move is to BAN cash as legal tender. To me, that is a dark road .

What better way to reduce credit card fraud ,than to implant chips into one's arm or forehead where the only way to steal the info is to cut off the hand or head. If the card chips were biologically powered then they would cease to function upon such removal.

The Beast is not technology, but those who control the tech. ( maniacal cackle shreds the air.}

Share this post


Link to post

Well it's a deep subject but at the end of Daniel's dream the Angel tells him:  8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the aend of these things?

  9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and asealed till the time of the end.

  10 Many shall be apurified, and made white, and btried; but the cwicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shalldunderstand.

 

So, help me to understand. I've been stuck at Rev 13:6/Daniel 11-12 for quite some time, stupor of thought. Strappinglads post knocked some things loose. How do you think Daniel would describe people walking around staring at I pads/Iphones all day and night? How do you think John would describe drones, robots, AI, Cobra attack choppers, fighter jets, atomic bombs etc. How do think John would describe a microchip injected under the skin to ID people, just like a cat. My new kittens came with their marks already installed. But hey I'm open to being taught. I looked ahead in our SS manual and we don't study Rev 13 this year along with the rest of the NT. How could Joseph Smith describe these things any better than John or Daniel?

But that is the problem. Why would it not be some new technology invented a century or two from now that we cannot conceive of? You can play that game forever.

Share this post


Link to post

This is why The Shepherd of Hermas and the Apocalypse of Peter make more sense. The Revelation is silly joke.

Share this post


Link to post

The world will scoff at those who worry about such news and say anyone who's concerned about technological developments that will make our private lives transparent to the government are fanatical alarmists. But that's what folks of that stripe always say until the yoke of totalitarianism is fastened tightly around their necks. This kind of fatuous thinking is usually found among those who don't believe there's a real devil.

So, is it advisable that we be Luddites?

Share this post


Link to post

.........................................  .

The beast is artificial intelligence. see Daniel 11:
 
  38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
 
A god whom his fathers knew not is technology , computers, artificial intelligence. My opinion of course.

So, "R2 D2 need not apply" will become the order of the day?  As we demonize our cyborg friends.  "Would you let your daughter marry one?"  Will the mark of the beast become the new mark of Cain?

Share this post


Link to post

This thread is a major 1980s flashback. 

Share this post


Link to post

I remember reading the Left Behind series by Jenkins and LaHaye back in high school. The booked touted paranoia over the "signs of the times" and the other silliness on the subject. Let's worry in 250,000 years when God stops the first trumpet, face palms and goes to have a beer.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×