Tim Ballard Defends Himself

[teddyaware]

As I’ve said previously, Tim Ballard is either a decent guy who’s getting a bad rap, or he’s the king of sociopaths, a man who’s able to lie brazenly lie while appearing to be earnestly honest and telling the truth. The only wrinkle is that in this recent 2 hour plus interview Ballard appears to ‘have the receipts’ (hard evidence), while some of the legal cases against him are either falling apart or being dismissed.

Ballard chose to appear on Troy Abels obscure LDS oriented podcast because Ables is one of the very few individuals with a media presence who believe Ballard is innocent and has been passionately defending him from the beginning. Fascinating! Of a truth, truth really is stranger than fiction!

 

Edited September 4, 2024 by teddyaware

[j.mason]

Tim Ballard is a like a movie or comic book hero. Rambo, Dirty Harry — this kind of hero goes in boldly, dispensing with all the silly rules that hamper lesser heroes, and single-handedly vanquishes evil. But is fighting evil ever really like that?

Quote

As I’ve said previously, Tim Ballard is either a decent guy who’s getting a bad rap, or he’s the king of sociopaths, a man who’s able to lie brazenly lie while appearing to be earnestly honest and telling the truth. The only wrinkle is that in this recent 2 hour plus interview Ballard appears to ‘have the receipts’ (hard evidence), while some of the legal cases against him are either falling apart or being dismissed.

You seem to have the view that Tim Ballard can be only one thing or the other, and this just isn’t true of any human being I have ever known. People are complicated with complicated motives. But when you veer into adultery, conning vulnerable women into your bed, all while presenting yourself as upstanding LDS and bandying about the name of Elder Ballard — well, then you are going to come to grief.

P.S. - I used to post as bdouglas.

[Doctor Steuss]

At some point, one would think (or at least hope) it would inspire some introspection being such a consistent bad judge of character.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

As I’ve said previously, Tim Ballard is either a decent guy who’s getting a bad rap, or he’s the king of sociopaths, a man who’s able to lie brazenly lie while appearing to be earnestly honest and telling the truth. The only wrinkle is that in this recent 2 hour plus interview Ballard appears to ‘have the receipts’ (hard evidence), while some of the legal cases against him are either falling apart or being dismissed.

You’re not this discriminating a judge of character to be able to run with that kind of binary choice. He is your standard charismatic egotist with delusions of grandeur who gets away with things by brazenly pushing forward through them. This often works for a while. That he can sound convincing to you isn’t evidence of any kind of virtue. It just means he is good at grifting and deception. He is a quasi-cult leader and like most such people starts assuming the rules don’t apply to him. Especially the sexual ones.

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Ballard chose to appear on Troy Abels obscure LDS oriented podcast because Ables is one of the very few individuals with a media presence who believe Ballard is innocent and has been passionately defending him from the beginning. Fascinating! Of a truth, truth really is stranger than fiction!

This isn’t an odd story at all. This kind of setup happens all the time.

[The Nehor]

37 minutes ago, Doctor Steuss said:

At some point, one would think (or at least hope) it would inspire some introspection being such a consistent bad judge of character.

 

[smac97]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

As I’ve said previously, Tim Ballard is either a decent guy who’s getting a bad rap, or he’s the king of sociopaths, a man who’s able to lie brazenly lie while appearing to be earnestly honest and telling the truth. The only wrinkle is that in this recent 2 hour plus interview Ballard appears to ‘have the receipts’ (hard evidence), while some of the legal cases against him are either falling apart or being dismissed.

Ballard chose to appear on Troy Abels obscure LDS oriented podcast because Ables is one of the very few individuals with a media presence who believe Ballard is innocent and has been passionately defending him from the beginning. Fascinating! Of a truth, truth really is stranger than fiction!

 

Oi.  2+ hours.  I hate podcasts.  They are such an inefficient way of conveying information.

I listened to a bit of it.  The primary focus of the interview is Ballard reading and rebutting an affidavit filed by "Ryan Fisher" (Tim Ballard's former business partner).  Each page is shown on the screen, with Tim reading and responding to each allegation.  This affidavit was filed in, I believe, a defamation lawsuit filed against Tim Ballard by Kely Moya and Luz Solano (who were apparently featured as bad guys in Sound of Freedom).

This affidavit, if it really has been filed, is - quality-wise - terrible from an legal/evidentiary standpoint.  The first page shows it being prepared and/or submitted by the plaintiffs' attorneys.  They should be embarrassed.  The affidavit is overwhelmingly full of hearsay, speculation, recitation of events to which Fisher was apparently not present, devoid of foundation, etc.  The attorneys whose names are listed should be embarrassed.  They may even get in trouble for filing this with the Court, as they know, or should know, that it violates the Rules of Evidence in voluminous ways.

My interest in this story is less about Tim Ballard and more about Elder Ballard.  To that end, I submit a few thoughts:

1. The interesting bit, such as it is, starts at about 55:31, and involves Tim Ballard responding to allegations made in the Fisher affidavit (and touching on Tim Ballard's relationship with Elder Ballard.  Tim reads from the affidavit (the text is on the screen) and recites which portions are, in his view, correct and incorrect.  Paragraph 15 states that Elder Ballard "was enamored by Tim Ballard's book, The American Covenant."  Tim states that he does not know if Elder Ballard was "enamored," that he never heard Elder Ballard say such a thing, that Elder Ballard in 2012 contacted Tim after reading the above book and "took interest" in what Tim said in it, that he (Elder Ballard) said that Tim's thesis about a "covenant" about "this land" is "very important," that Elder Ballard told Tim many times that he considered Tim to be a "grandson," that they traveled together, that Tim has been to his home "many times," and that they were "close friends."

2. Paragraph 16 of the Fisher affidavit speaks of Thom Harrison and Visions of Glory, which book Tim describes as "very intriguing," and he describes Harrison as "one of the best men on the planet" and a "mentor and counselor" to Tim. 

3. In paragraphs 17-19, Fisher alleges that "Ballard told me that Harrison as advising him on how to prepare for the imminent destruction of society and the second coming of Jesus Christ."  Tim states that this paragraph is "complete[ly] false" and "fiction[al]."

4. In paragraph 21, Fisher alleges that Tim believes Harrison and Elder Ballard to be "prophets."  Tim acknowledges the latter, but not the former, as such, and the former as "a very inspired man" with "spiritual gifts," but that this allegation is "overstated."

5. In paragraph 22, Fisher alleges: "Elder Ballard would have regular meetings with [Tim] Ballard and discuss how to bring Mormonism into American Evangelical homes without Evangelicals realizing such."  Tim states this is as a "total lie, 1,000% lie."  Tim states that Elder Ballard was interested in helping save children, and in Tim's theories about "the message that there is a covenant on this land."

6. In paragraph 23, Fisher alleges: "I was in meetings with general authorities of the LDS church, including Elder Ballard[,] and I had many discussions with Ballard [Tim or Elder Ballard?] in which he relayed various plans Elder Ballard and the church formulated to use Ballard and his message to infiltrate Evangelical American culture in an effort to influence their perception of the Mormon Church."  Tim describes this as "completely false."  Tim states that he is aware of Ryan attending one meeting, to which Tim had invited Ryan, with Elder Ballard, but that he (Elder Ballard) never said anything about "trying to make more Mormons," and that he (Elder Ballard) just wants America to "turn back to God."

7. In paragraph 24, Fisher alleges that "Elder Ballard and the Mormon Church [] created a plan to make Tim a celebrity and American hero by helping him launch a non-profit called Operation Underground Railroad (OUR)."  Tim denies this, saying neither Elder Ballard nor the Church were involved in OUR, and that he did not want them involved, and there was never a plan to make Tim famous.  This is repeated in paragraph 28, where Ryan alleges that the Church was doing all this as part of its "long term goal of being assimilated into the family of American evangelical churches."

8. In paragraph 25, Fisher alleges that "Elder Ballard issued requests to various wealthy and influential Mormon individuals and organizations asking them to fund and help launch OUR."  Tim says this "never happened," and notes that Fisher does not mention any details (names, dates, etc.).  The ensuing paragraphs go on and on with this sort of stuff stuff.  No foundation or explanation as to how Fisher knows any of this stuff.  No details.  No documentation or corroboration.  No explanation for how Fisher came to have knowledge of these events, how he is a percipient witness, etc.  There is some detail about a meeting in paragraph 56.

Again, I am deeply unimpressed with this document.  I am quite surprised that licensed attorneys put their name to it and filed it in court.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited September 4, 2024 by smac97

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Ryan alleges that the Church was doing all this as part of its "long term goal of being assimilated into the family of American evangelical churches."

Yeah, not buying this which makes me question his perception of other things. 

[teddyaware]

10 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Oi.  2+ hours.  I hate podcasts.  They are such an inefficient way of conveying information.

I listened to a bit of it.  The primary focus of the interview is Ballard reading and rebutting an affidavit filed by "Ryan Fisher" (Tim Ballard's former business partner).  Each page is shown on the screen, with Tim reading and responding to each allegation.  This affidavit was filed in, I believe, a defamation lawsuit filed against Tim Ballard by Kely Moya and Luz Solano (who were apparently featured as bad guys in Sound of Freedom).

This affidavit, if it really has been filed, is - quality-wise - terrible from an legal/evidentiary standpoint.  The first page shows it being prepared and/or submitted by the plaintiffs' attorneys.  They should be embarrassed.  The affidavit is overwhelmingly full of hearsay, speculation, recitation of events to which Fisher was apparently not present, devoid of foundation, etc.  The attorneys whose names are listed should be embarrassed.  They may even get in trouble for filing this with the Court, as they know, or should know, that it violates the Rules of Evidence in voluminous ways.

My interest in this story is less about Tim Ballard and more about Elder Ballard.  To that end, I submit a few thoughts:

1. The interesting bit, such as it is, starts at about 55:31, and involves Tim Ballard responding to allegations made in the Fisher affidavit (and touching on Tim Ballard's relationship with Elder Ballard.  Tim reads from the affidavit (the text is on the screen) and recites which portions are, in his view, correct and incorrect.  Paragraph 15 states that Elder Ballard "was enamored by Tim Ballard's book, The American Covenant."  Tim states that he does not know if Elder Ballard was "enamored," that he never heard Elder Ballard say such a thing, that Elder Ballard in 2012 contacted Tim after reading the above book and "took interest" in what Tim said in it, that he (Elder Ballard) said that Tim's thesis about a "covenant" about "this land" is "very important," that Elder Ballard told Tim many times that he considered Tim to be a "grandson," that they traveled together, that Tim has been to his home "many times," and that they were "close friends."

2. Paragraph 16 of the Fisher affidavit speaks of Thom Harrison and Visions of Glory, which book Tim describes as "very intriguing," and he describes Harrison as "one of the best men on the planet" and a "mentor and counselor" to Tim. 

3. In paragraphs 17-19, Fisher alleges that "Ballard told me that Harrison as advising him on how to prepare for the imminent destruction of society and the second coming of Jesus Christ."  Tim states that this paragraph is "complete[ly] false" and "fiction[al]."

4. In paragraph 21, Fisher alleges that Tim believes Harrison and Elder Ballard to be "prophets."  Tim acknowledges the latter, but not the former, as such, and the former as "a very inspired man" with "spiritual gifts," but that this allegation is "overstated."

5. In paragraph 22, Fisher alleges: "Elder Ballard would have regular meetings with [Tim] Ballard and discuss how to bring Mormonism into American Evangelical homes without Evangelicals realizing such."  Tim states this is as a "total lie, 1,000% lie."  Tim states that Elder Ballard was interested in helping save children, and in Tim's theories about "the message that there is a covenant on this land."

6. In paragraph 23, Fisher alleges: "I was in meetings with general authorities of the LDS church, including Elder Ballard[,] and I had many discussions with Ballard [Tim or Elder Ballard?] in which he relayed various plans Elder Ballard and the church formulated to use Ballard and his message to infiltrate Evangelical American culture in an effort to influence their perception of the Mormon Church."  Tim describes this as "completely false."  Tim states that he is aware of Ryan attending one meeting, to which Tim had invited Ryan, with Elder Ballard, but that he (Elder Ballard) never said anything about "trying to make more Mormons," and that he (Elder Ballard) just wants America to "turn back to God."

7. In paragraph 24, Fisher alleges that "Elder Ballard and the Mormon Church [] created a plan to make Tim a celebrity and American hero by helping him launch a non-profit called Operation Underground Railroad (OUR)."  Tim denies this, saying neither Elder Ballard nor the Church were involved in OUR, and that he did not want them involved, and there was never a plan to make Tim famous.  This is repeated in paragraph 28, where Ryan alleges that the Church was doing all this as part of its "long term goal of being assimilated into the family of American evangelical churches."

8. In paragraph 25, Fisher alleges that "Elder Ballard issued requests to various wealthy and influential Mormon individuals and organizations asking them to fund and help launch OUR."  Tim says this "never happened," and notes that Fisher does not mention any details (names, dates, etc.).  The ensuing paragraphs go on and on with this sort of stuff stuff.  No foundation or explanation as to how Fisher knows any of this stuff.  No details.  No documentation or corroboration.  No explanation for how Fisher came to have knowledge of these events, how he is a percipient witness, etc.  There is some detail about a meeting in paragraph 56.

Again, I am deeply unimpressed with this document.  I am quite surprised that licensed attorneys put their name to it and filed it in court.

Thanks,

-Smac

The legal equivalent of throwing a large handful of spaghetti against a wall, in the desperate hope that at least one of the noodles will stick? Or how about firing a blunderbuss at a sharpshooter target from 50 yards, in the thin hope that at least one of the buckshot will hit the bullseye?

[Doctor Steuss]

I imagine it is worth sharing the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' statement regarding Tim Ballard, and his association with President Ballard, for those whose faith in the Church is more than their faith in Tim Ballard (blessed be his name, forever and ever, amen).

Quote

Once it became clear Tim Ballard had betrayed their friendship, through the unauthorized use of President Ballard’s name for Tim Ballard’s personal advantage and activity regarded as morally unacceptable, President Ballard withdrew his association. 

https://www.deseret.com/2023/9/15/23875331/tim-ballard-senate-church-of-jesus-christ/

 

Exploiting women for personal sexual gratification is indeed morally unacceptable.  I appreciate that President Ballard had strong personal ethics and morals that guided him. 

[smac97]

44 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

The legal equivalent of throwing a large handful of spaghetti against a wall, in the desperate hope that at least one of the noodles will stick?

This will do more harm than good for them.  Judges and their clerks have plenty of work to do, and dislike having to slog through dreck that is inadmissible as evidence.

Tim Ballard's attorneys, on the other hand, will find this stuff easy to overcome.  Fish in a barrel.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

58 minutes ago, Calm said:

Quote

Ryan alleges that the Church was doing all this as part of its "long term goal of being assimilated into the family of American evangelical churches."

Yeah, not buying this which makes me question his perception of other things. 

From Reddit:

Quote

Full 45-minute video: https://youtu.be/pBzAzs-Dd-M

Part I - Meet Ryan Fisher, formerly the face of KJZZ TV series "Nephite Explorer". He recently posted his thoughts on Tim Ballard (recorded earlier in Sep '23) as someone who'd been Tim's friend and part of high-level LDS church meetings with him. Props to Ryan for sharing. https://v.redd.it/dyqf7ar1831d1

Part II - Evangelical Infiltration and LDS PR. Ryan Fisher – formerly the face of KJZZ TV series "Nephite Explorer" – explains the rationale behind Russell and Tim Ballard's collaboration and their plan for crafting Tim's public persona to generate Evangelical appeal. https://v.redd.it/a6nv825kb31d1

Part III - Ryan Fisher: American Covenant? "...using patriotism, Founding Fathers, Providential guidance, and American exceptionalism, along with Manifest Destiny, to stir people up into joining your movement, is nothing new. In fact, it's the oldest Mormon story that there is." https://v.redd.it/k6httvk3f31d1

Part IV - Ryan Fisher: Tim Ballard's message created justification for hating other groups of people, such as the LGBTQ community, with a message of fear, hatred and judgment. I'm ashamed that I advanced that message. https://v.redd.it/pq5w0fzgj31d1

All conclusory, just-trust-me, evidence-free stuff.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

Fisher, by choosing to emphasize the alleged agenda of LDS trying to subvert Evangelicals in some form is using himself a long standing ploy of antimormon ministries, imo. “High level meetings”, “infiltration”, used to be an insider, now courageously exposing the secrets of the Mormon conspiracy…

Looks to me like more standard self promotion, just to a different crowd.

Evangelicals are a huge market.  So are public patriots (this label is not intended to be disparaging,  but solely descriptive).  Look at all the flag products online and off.

It would not surprise me in the least if Tim Ballard did eventually craft his message to appeal to those two groups even more than specifically LDS (lots of public patriots among LDS and evangelicals).  One only has to look at the SOF movie to see the usefulness for fundraising.

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

This will do more harm than good for them.  Judges and their clerks have plenty of work to do, and dislike having to slog through dreck that is inadmissible as evidence.

Tim Ballard's attorneys, on the other hand, will find this stuff easy to overcome.  Fish in a barrel.

Thanks,

-Smac

With your many years of experience in the legal profession, I’m wondering if you might be able to provide some insight as to what might motivate someone like Fisher to press on in spite of the factual weaknesses found throughout his case? Could it be he’s banking on the fact that Ballard’s almost universal unpopularity, and the fact that Ballard has already been prejudged as guilty on all counts in the court of public opinion, has emboldened him to believe the judge will be sympathetic to his allegations, and for this reason he believes his chances of prevailing in court are good? Or could it be he’s doing it because he believes all of his allegations against Ballard will be accepted at face value by the vast majority of those people who are paying attention, and that playing a role in the final destruction of Ballard’s reputation will be redound to his benefit even if he does happen to lose his case?  Finally, what beside making money could motivate lawyers to set forth such an embarrassingly weak and sketchy case?

Edited September 4, 2024 by teddyaware

[Doctor Steuss]

40 minutes ago, Calm said:

Fisher, by choosing to emphasize the alleged agenda of LDS trying to subvert Evangelicals in some form is using himself a long standing ploy of antimormon ministries, imo. “High level meetings”, “infiltration”, used to be an insider, now courageously exposing the secrets of the Mormon conspiracy…

Looks to me like more standard self promotion, just to a different crowd.

Evangelicals are a huge market.  So are public patriots (this label is not intended to be disparaging,  but solely descriptive).  Look at all the flag products online and off.

It would not surprise me in the least if Tim Ballard did eventually craft his message to appeal to those two groups even more than specifically LDS (lots of public patriots among LDS and evangelicals).  One only has to look at the SOF movie to see the usefulness for fundraising.

With Fisher it's somewhat difficult for me to sus out what is him just being a dishonest turd for his own ends, vs what Tim Ballard may have told him (or told others, which rumors then found their way to him) in attempts for self-aggrandizement and to increase his income streams.  When you have two people who lack ethics and morals telling stories... those stories become incredibly difficult to decide who the ultimate source of the nonsense was/is.

Edited September 4, 2024 by Doctor Steuss

[The Nehor]

Fisher’s case is weak. Some of the other cases against Ballard are on more solid footing.

Edit: Realized I misspoke. There isn’t a Fisher case. There is an affadavit filed with the court from Fisher regarding another case.

Edited September 4, 2024 by The Nehor

[smac97]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

With your many years of experience in the legal profession, I’m wondering if you might be able to provide some insight as to what might motivate someone like Fisher to press on in spite of the factual weaknesses found throughout his case?

Anything I say would be speculative, at least as to his unspoken motives.  The affidavit, though, speaks for itself, and is calculated to cast Tim Ballard, Elder Ballard and the Church is the worst possible light, to stoke fear and suspicion amongst Evangelical Christians (risible terms like "infiltrate" have little objective legal value, but plenty of sensationalistic value), and to make himself out to be a victim of dark machinations.

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Could it be he’s banking on the fact that Ballard’s almost universal unpopularity, and the fact that Ballard has already been prejudged as guilty on all counts in the court of public opinion, has emboldened him to believe the judge will be sympathetic to his allegations, and for this reason he believes his chances of prevailing in court are good? Or could it be he’s doing it because he believes all of his allegations against Ballard will be accepted at face value by the vast majority of those people who are paying attention, and that playing a role in the final destruction of Ballard’s reputation will be redound to his benefit even if he does happen to lose his case?  

I don't think Ryan has a "case."  He does not seem to be named as a party in recent litigation against Tim Ballard in Utah state court.  His affidavit was apparently filed in a lawsuit filed by other people against Tim Ballard.

Beyond that, I don't know what to make of Ryan Fisher's unspoken motives.

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Finally, what beside making money could motivate lawyers to set forth such an embarrassingly weak and sketchy case?

I don't know about the merits of the case overall (and again, it's not Ryan Fisher's lawsuit).  This particular piece of it, however, is indeed "weak and sketchy."  

Why did lawyers file it, apart from making money?  I don't know.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Dario_M]

Is Tim also an Anti LDS? Why is he such a hero? Just ask it because i don't know the guy at all. 

[Calm]

17 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Is Tim also an Anti LDS? Why is he such a hero? Just ask it because i don't know the guy at all. 

No, he’s very pro LDS.  But he was marketing his charity to Evangelicals as well as they are apparently heavy into the child trafficking rescue scene.

He was the head of an anti child trafficking charity that claimed to rescue hundreds of children.  He was a good salesman for the company. They would let volunteers go along and film it so everyone felt they had the real experience and paid lots of money. The charity was taking in the money and he was getting to know big names (think he got invited to the White House). He presented himself as squeaky clean, but from the beginning not everyone was happy about the way they dealt with the children. They may have actually caused some kids to be trafficked who weren’t already by asking for kids those ages. They also were reported as leaving the follow-up in locals’ hands who didn’t have the resources to care for the rescued kids, so the kids were just sent back into the homes that had first trafficked them, so of course many were back being trafficked in a few months after being rescued. 

There was some really weird stuff that got reported. It is still debatable how much is truth, but the Church leadership was concerned enough that they did something they never did before, Elder Ballard issued a personal disclaimer and condemnation of Tim Ballard as acting immorally.  There is good evidence Tim Ballard was using Elder Ballard’s name to seduce women. It would have to be something major like that, though it could also be possible fraud with the charity that Elder Ballard had been supportive of.  The way the announcement was worded my guess is it was seduction of women.

It was a huge story. Tim Ballard’s friends were all certain at first it was a conspiracy to bring him down as he was about to announce he was going to run for the Senate. But within a week almost everyone changed their mind and condemning him or at least going silent. I got the impression some of the bigger names talked to church representatives, who probably showed them the evidence. 
 

There was good evidence (some pictures of a presentation at a meeting) at least that he claimed Elder Ballard was a silent partner of a business venture he was starting to funnel a lot of money into his own pocket, which in my opinion is a lie.  A lot of women have come forward claiming he seduced, abused, or harassed them.  Supposedly there are at least texts but I don’t remember if they have been released or not. 

Edited September 5, 2024 by Calm

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

No, he’s very pro LDS.  But he was marketing his charity to Evangelicals as well as they are apparently heavy into the child trafficking rescue scene.

Oh how interesting indeed. I think i'm going to watch the video then. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

He was the head of an anti child trafficking charity that claimed to rescue hundreds of children.  He was a good salesman for the company. They would let volunteers go along and film it so everyone felt they had the real experience and paid lots of money. The charity was taking in the money and he was getting to know big names (think he got invited to the White House). He presented himself as squeaky clean, but from the beginning not everyone was happy about the way they dealt with the children. They may have actually caused some kids to be trafficked who weren’t already by asking for kids those ages.

That explains why people call him a hero. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

They also were reported as leaving the follow-up in locals’ hands who didn’t have the resources to care for the rescued kids, so the kids were just sent back into the homes that had first trafficked them, so of course many were back being trafficked in a few months after being rescued. 

Oh really? But what is the point of rescuing children if they afterwards bring them back to those trafficking homes again?

2 hours ago, Calm said:

There was some really weird stuff that got reported. It is still debatable how much is truth, but the Church leadership was concerned enough that they did some they never did before, Elder Ballard issued a personal disclaimer and condemnation of Tim Ballard as acting immorally.  There is good evidence Tim Ballard was using Elder Ballard’s name to seduce women. It would have to be something major like that, though it could also be possible fraud with the charity that Elder Ballard had been supportive of.  The way the announcement was worded my guess is it was seduction of women.

Oh that's not good at all. 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

It was a huge story. Tim Ballard’s friends were all certain at first it was a conspiracy to bring him down as he was about to announce he was going to run for the Senate. But within a week almost everyone changed their mind and condemning him or at least going silent. I got the impression some of the bigger names talked to church representatives, who probably showed them the evidence. 
 

There was good evidence (some pictures of a presentation at a meeting) at least that he claimed Elder Ballard was a silent partner of a business venture he was starting to funnel a lot of money into his own pocket, which in my opinion is a lie.  A lot of women have come forward claiming he seduced, abused, or harassed them.  Supposedly there are at least texts but I don’t remember if they have been released or not. 

Strange storie. So....basically he was not that of a good person after all? It sounds a bit shady to me. 

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Oh how interesting indeed. I think i'm going to watch the video then. 

That explains why people call him a hero. 

Oh really? But what is the point of rescuing children if they afterwards bring them back to those trafficking homes again?

Oh that's not good at all. 

Strange storie. So....basically he was not that of a good person after all? It sounds a bit shady to me. 

Why don’t you watch the video and draw your own impressions? One thing is virtually certain, it appears likely that Ballard is telling the truth with regard to the subject matter covered in the video. So if Ballard actually is being truthful in the video, with one of his most vocal accusers very recently being convicted in a court of law as a child trafficker (a conviction largely affirmed on video evidence provided to law enforcement by Ballard himself) it seems to me the man at least deserves a fair hearing.

In addition, some of the cases against Ballard have recently been dismissed due to lack of evidence. It’s also strange that the women who’ve accused Ballard of wrongdoing are being represented by the very same lawyers who defended the woman who was just convicted of child trafficking! Based on the sleazy, underhanded way these lawyers defended the now convicted child trafficker, one can’t help but wonder why these very same lawyers are representing Ballard’s other female accusers?

For the above reasons, it seems to me Ballard at very least deserves a fair hearing.  Why not listen to the video instead of joining in with the large chorus of church members who’ve already convicted Ballard in the court of public opinion before the man has been able to defend in a court of law? This same kind of rush to justice mentality is what got Joseph and Hyrum murdered.

If Ballard is found guilty of the charges filed against him, after compelling evidence is provided that places the reality of his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, I’ll condemn the man and say justice was done. But of all people the Latter-Day Saints should be the last people who point the finger of guilt before all the evidence has been revealed and dispassionately analyzed.

Edited September 5, 2024 by teddyaware

[Dario_M]

22 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Why don’t you watch the video and draw your own impressions?

I'm allready bussy with watching the video. 

22 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

One thing is virtually certain, it appears likely that Ballard is telling the truth with regard to the subject matter covered in the video. So if Ballard actually is being truthful in the video, with one of his most vocal accusers very recently being convicted in a court of law as a child trafficker (a conviction largely affirmed on video evidence provided to law enforcement by Ballard himself) it seems to me the man at least deserves a fair hearing.

Yeah...if you say so.

22 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

In addition, some of the cases against Ballard have recently been dismissed due to lack of evidence. It’s also strange that the women who’ve accused Ballard of wrongdoing are being represented by the very same lawyers who defended the woman who was just convicted of child trafficking! Based on the sleazy, underhanded way these lawyers defended the now convicted child trafficker, one can’t help but wonder why these very same lawyers are representing Ballard’s other female accusers?

For the above reasons, it seems to me Ballard at very least deserves a fair hearing.  Why not listen to the video instead of joining in with the large chorus of church members who’ve already convicted Ballard in the court of public opinion before the man has been able to defend in a court of law?

I did not even done that. 

22 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

This same kind of rush to justice mentality is what got Joseph and Hyrum murdered.

Joseph Smith you mean? Yeah that was really sad indeed. He did not deserved that. 

22 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

 But of all people the Latter-Day Saints should be the last people who point the finger of guilt before all the evidence has been revealed and dispassionately analyzed.

And why is that? 

[Dario_M]

I've seen the whole video and i am kinda disgusted and appalled. 🤢

But i believe that Tim is innocent and just wanted to help those kids. 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

For the above reasons, it seems to me Ballard at very least deserves a fair hearing.  Why not listen to the video instead of joining in with the large chorus of church members who’ve already convicted Ballard in the court of public opinion before the man has been able to defend in a court of law? This same kind of rush to justice mentality is what got Joseph and Hyrum murdered.

Yeah, everyone here is calling for vigilante justice and demanding immediate murder.

Oh wait……no.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Why don’t you watch the video and draw your own impressions? One thing is virtually certain, it appears likely that Ballard is telling the truth with regard to the subject matter covered in the video.

Why is that virtually certain?

[teddyaware]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Why is that virtually certain?

Watch the video. Unless Ballard is brazenly lying about things that he knows are soon going to come out in the full view of the public, it’s reasonable to presume that he must be telling the truth. He doesn’t appear to be the kind of guy who would lay the groundwork for his own humiliation and destruction just to buy himself few days to pretend he’s innocent.