Calm Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, bsjkki said: think it started at BYU and and got out of hand. Nothing like college kids and their administrators to take things to extremes, lol. I remember as a teen in the San Francisco area BYU being held up as the example of how we should dress (this would have been in the early 70’s before sleeveless for teens became forbodden). Edited July 10, 2023 by Calm 4
Calm Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, bluebell said: Not that point in the creation narrative. That doesn't happen until after they are kicked out of the garden and in the world for a while. And in an environment where bodies needed protection. And Satan had already tainted their thought processes with his lies, so they needed protection from obsessing about that as well. Edited July 10, 2023 by Calm 3
Vanguard Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Calm said: If nakedness was okay for God, why would it not be for his messengers? Because we have been saddled with this notion that nakedness as a general rule is not appropriate in society. A notion that despite whatever we think about it, we will not be able to shake entirely and therefore must oblige its mandate while in this mortality.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: Now tattoos and piercings are a modesty issue? You sure do like to police women’s bodies. Did you read the church’s article explaining modesty I shared? Obviously not, since it mentions tattoos and piercings as modesty issues. Tattoos and piercings are also not exclusively a woman’s modesty issue, nor for I express it that way. Good grief.
Calm Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 My mom was from a very conservative family who lived back East (Connecticut and Vermont) for her teens (in Utah before that). They often had the missionaries living at their home to save money and when general authorities came out to speak, they parked with her parents. She remembers them being in and out of her house all the time. She wore a strapless dress either for prom or for her college big dance and she was in a sleeveless shirt and not quite short shorts for her surprise bridal shower. No later pictures that I remember like that though as she was married in the Logan temple and faithfully wore her garments all her life. Back then and up to my teens at least, the unendowed didn’t have to wear clothing that was appropriate for garments until they actually got endowed. She did wear a one piece swimsuit and I don’t remember any stomach baring pictures, but she bought me a sweet halter top in my early teens that was the most comfortable piece of clothing that wasn’t pajamas that I ever owned, so she didn’t assume a naked midriff was immodest obviously.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: As I recall it was Satan that told them that it was shameful. Darn it. God wanted us all to run around naked, but Satan foiled it. Too bad God gave in to Satan’s tricks and made clothes to cover Adam and Eve’s nakedness instead of telling them the truth. I guess it was God who forced a bunk version of modesty on the believers and not those unenlightened misogynistic LDS GAs of yesteryear.
Calm Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Vanguard said: Because we have been saddled with this notion that nakedness as a general rule is not appropriate in society. A notion that despite whatever we think about it, we will not be able to shake entirely and therefore must oblige its mandate while in this mortality. So you are saying it was Adam and Eve who needed to be clothed to feel comfortable in front of God’s messengers and not an issue for his messengers…since they weren’t mortal yet. If so, I agree….though I don’t assume that standard has been consistent through the ages.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 6 hours ago, Calm said: He does. Is anyone here arguing that he doesn’t? It is given in the scriptures multiple times. I have quoted them above. Basically don’t wear things for the purpose of self aggrandizement, to elevate yourself above others. So as long as you don’t wear booty shorts and crop-top for the purpose of elevating yourself above others it’s not immodest? Yeah, I don’t think so.
bluebell Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, Calm said: My mom was from a very conservative family who lived back East (Connecticut and Vermont) for her teens (in Utah before that). They often had the missionaries living at their home to save money and when general authorities came out to speak, they parked with her parents. She remembers them being in and out of her house all the time. She wore a strapless dress either for prom or for her college big dance and she was in a sleeveless shirt and not quite short shorts for her surprise bridal shower. No later pictures that I remember like that though as she was married in the Logan temple and faithfully wore her garments all her life. Back then and up to my teens at least, the unendowed didn’t have to wear clothing that was appropriate for garments until they actually got endowed. She did wear a one piece swimsuit and I don’t remember any stomach baring pictures, but she bought me a sweet halter top in my early teens that was the most comfortable piece of clothing that wasn’t pajamas that I ever owned, so she didn’t assume a naked midriff was immodest obviously. A great example of how there can be reasons for covering our bodies--valuable important reasons, like wearing garments--that don't have to be connected to "modesty". God can want us to cover our bodies in certain ways, especially specific parts, but it doesn't always have to be because if we don't it's morally offensive to Him. 3
The Nehor Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: Did you read the church’s article explaining modesty I shared? Obviously not, since it mentions tattoos and piercings as modesty issues. Tattoos and piercings are also not exclusively a woman’s modesty issue, nor for I express it that way. Good grief. Which is silly. It is not a modesty issue. It just gets stuck in there due to not knowing where to put other grooming mandates. Fine, you love policing women’s bodies and men’s bodies but to a lesser extent.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Calm said: God had thought it inappropriate or immodest for adults to be naked, then surely he would have provided the two with clothing. But he did not. So God didn’t make clothing for Adam and Eve to cover their nakedness once their eyes were opened and could recognize good from evil? I could have sworn that he did. Edited July 10, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, The Nehor said: Which is silly. It is not a modesty issue. It just gets stuck in there due to not knowing where to put other grooming mandates. You’re welcome to disagree with the leaders of the church whose job it is to deliver Gods word, but it’s completely nonsensical to come at me for believing their words and defending them.
The Nehor Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: Darn it. God wanted us all to run around naked, but Satan foiled it. Too bad God gave in to Satan’s tricks and made clothes to cover Adam and Eve’s nakedness instead of telling them the truth. I guess it was God who forced a bunk version of modesty on the believers and not those unenlightened misogynistic LDS GAs of yesteryear. Sure, if you think the Garden story is primarily about modesty. It wasn’t. 1
Calm Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: So as long as you don’t wear booty shorts and crop-top for the purpose of elevating yourself above others it’s not immodest? Yeah, I don’t think so. Then I advise you not to do so. 1
The Nehor Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: You’re welcome to disagree with the leaders of the church whose job it is to deliver Gods word, but it’s completely nonsensical to come at me for believing their words and defending them. Putting tattoo and piercing guidelines in the modesty section of an article constitutes revelation from God that they are a modesty issue?
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, The Nehor said: Sure, if you think the Garden story is primarily about modesty. It wasn’t. Then why did you bring it up? Edited July 11, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal
The Nehor Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: So as long as you don’t wear booty shorts and crop-top for the purpose of elevating yourself above others it’s not immodest? Yes, so you can stop judging me for it.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, The Nehor said: Putting tattoo and piercing guidelines in the modesty section of an article constitutes revelation from God that they are a modesty issue? Is that what I said?
The Nehor Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Grug the Neanderthal said: They why did you bring it up? As a joke.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Calm said: Then I advise you not to do so. Cool. And the Lord’s prophets say that he advises everyone not to do so because to do so is immodest.
The Nehor Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Grug the Neanderthal said: Is that what I said? Yes, by implication. There is no other reading of your comment that makes sense. 1
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: As a joke. I don’t think anyone got it.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, The Nehor said: Yes, by implication. There is no other reading of your comment that makes sense. There is, but I’ll leave you to think about what that might be.
The Nehor Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, Grug the Neanderthal said: There is, but I’ll leave you to think about what that might be. Nope, and if you had one you would present it and gloat. 1
Grug the Neanderthal Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Just now, The Nehor said: Nope, and if you had one you would present it and gloat. Nope. Think really hard Nehor. You can do this. What other point could I possibly have been making?
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