Bloodless Theory

[mfbukowski]

23 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Alma said it best: “Now these mysteries are not yet fully made known unto me; therefore I shall forbear.”

 

Good idea.

Our theology seems to rapidly be  changing into each person's personal science fiction; a little forbearance could go a long way if we all followed suit about mysteries.

There are reasons there ARE mysteries.  No one is ready for the answers.

We need some Poles around here to hold up the roof!

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Peacefully said:

I wanted the option of being part of the Neptune Memorial Reef but it is very expensive. I’ll just let them scatter me in the gulf at Galveston. I like the idea of staying close to Texas, although, who knows where my ashes will end up:) 

Galveston stake is near to my heart; I get there a few times a year

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Balaam said:

, I would prefer the no-worm option.

I would prefer the no-warm option.

[Peacefully]

15 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Galveston stake is near to my heart; I get there a few times a year

I live in North Texas but I’ve been to Galveston several times. I love it there! 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Peacefully said:

I wanted the option of being part of the Neptune Memorial Reef but it is very expensive. I’ll just let them scatter me in the gulf at Galveston. I like the idea of staying close to Texas, although, who knows where my ashes will end up:) 

The Reef would be cool.  

[Calm]

15 hours ago, Amulek said:

So, did Jesus have a belly button? If so, then what (other than blood) could have possibly been transmitted to him through the umbilical chord from Mary during gestation?

 

Hope this doesn’t come across as patronizing, just being analytical and being serious, so going into argumentative mode,   

Assuming it is a valid approach….

Saline solution is a possibility or the biological equivalent filled with whatever nutrients Jesus needed from Mary’s body, if any, assuming the natural process was in place outside of blood…

Or perhaps Mary’s spirit was sufficient to feed the needs of the growing baby and her spirit was replenished as needed just as her body/blood would have been if the process.

——

Taking the not so fast, think again approach….

I am with gav, I don’t see how he could really be said to have lived as a human his entire life, condescending to become one of us without actually becoming one of us.  Him just being fully human due to having blood circulating through his body for the time from Gethesame to through the end of the crucifixion when the last of the blood drained from his body (got the timing right, correct?) seems to turn his life into something very different than the sacrifice it is described to be.  It feels to me like the gnostic belief God substituted someone else on the cross and Jesus was never actually crucified because that indignity couldn’t happen to God or to explain the apparent resurrection, etc****.  God has miraculously protected others, the invincibility through being bloodless isn’t therefore necessary and I don’t see it as that logical either unless you are missing some steps in the process or evidence.  1) The scriptures speak of not being able to find him, instead of finding him and throwing stones, etc at him.  2) Even if they had thrown rocks and such at him, It could have been done as it was with Samuel the Lamanite, who was not immortal or bloodless (I am assuming you will agree), and yet avoided being harmed by arrows shot at him.

But dang fun to think about and get the brain working on. 👍

****https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_hypothesis

Edited January 6, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

The immortal body is quickened by spirit,

The theory I have heard is it will be light that flows through our veins…but spirit could make more sense.  Yet it seems spirit alone is not as advanced as spirit and flesh since we go to all this hard work to get a body.  Seems more reasonable that whatever is in our veins will be an amalgam of spirit and flesh like the rest of our body.

[Calm]

Pyreaux, I assume you have searched the internet and therefore likely came across this page, but thought I would put it up anyway as others may be interested.  
 

Seems to me the logical approach if one assumes Jesus was protected from injury to look at his invulnerability process as similar, if not identical, to translation in that the three disciples/Nephites could no longer be injured or sick, etc.  

And someone has graciously collected lots of quotes on translated beings
 

https://www.angelfire.com/super2/halcomb4/translatedbeings.htm

Also this one, not that helpful though, most not on point for blood and same quote given already I think…

https://emp.byui.edu/satterfieldb/quotes/Resurrection/Nature of Resurrected Bodies.html

Edited January 6, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Came across this…this debate may be based on a false understanding of scripture.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Do_Mormons_believe_that_we_will_have_blood_in_our_bodies_when_we_are_resurrected_or_will_it_be_just_flesh_and_bone%3F

Quote

“flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts"

Quote

Flesh in the New Testament usually includes blood by definition. It encapsulates the idea of the physical body with all of its parts (including blood). And this is how Jesus is using it in this context. Jesus isn't teaching us some great mystery about the resurrection, merely pointing out to his apostles that he does in fact have a very real body. 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Peacefully said:

I live in North Texas but I’ve been to Galveston several times. I love it there! 

Me too, except in hurricane season!  😉

[CV75]

I like the Bloodthirsty Theory.

[MiserereNobis]

If only Shylock had thought these questions through...

[mfbukowski]

57 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

If only Shylock had thought these questions through...

We just need to reverse the coils and everthing will be back to normal!

Deus ex.....machina ....sanguis?

Not much difference!

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Amulek]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Hope this doesn’t come across as patronizing, just being analytical and being serious, so going into argumentative mode,   

Don't worry about my feelings. I've got nothing invested in this. It hasn't really moved past the point of 'casual thought experiment' in my mind, so feel free to say whatever you like; I honestly don't mind.

 

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Assuming it is a valid approach….

Saline solution is a possibility or the biological equivalent filled with whatever nutrients Jesus needed from Mary’s body, if any, assuming the natural process was in place outside of blood…

I think that gets back to Mary having to have been transfigured then, in some way, otherwise...well, that's just now how human bodies work.

 

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Or perhaps Mary’s spirit was sufficient to feed the needs of the growing baby and her spirit was replenished as needed just as her body/blood would have been if the process.

I've never really considered the idea of investing our offspring with our own spirits in some capacity. I'll give it some thought, but my initial leaning is skeptical.

 

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Taking the not so fast, think again approach….

I am with gav, I don’t see how he could really be said to have lived as a human his entire life, condescending to become one of us without actually becoming one of us.

I also think one of the main purposes of Jesus' life, as an exemplar, is to show us what we ourselves can become - not just at some point in the eternities, but right now.

 

[Amulek]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:08 PM, Pyreaux said:

So, in the Bloodless Theory, it is argued that Jesus was half-immortal, and most all his life he was bloodless and so was unkillable until after Gethsemane, when Jesus' first obtained blood and bled "sweat was as it were great drops of blood," (Luke 22:43-4).

Do you think the same would have applied to Adam and Eve, pre-fall?

And, in that same vein of thinking, would all of the other things that people question about there being no death before the Fall apply to Jesus? For example, even without blood, did Jesus experience cell death (e.g., no fingernails)?

 

[Peacefully]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Me too, except in hurricane season!  😉

Amen! We took a cruise out of Galveston and we were in the middle of the gulf when Hurricane Harvey hit. We couldn’t go back to Galveston so they rerouted us to New Orleans so we rented a car to get home. Then my husband rented another car to drive to Galveston to pick our car up at the port. He said the devastation was horrific:( 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Peacefully

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

I also think one of the main purposes of Jesus' life, as an exemplar, is to show us what we ourselves can become - not just at some point in the eternities, but right now.

There you go!

I see this as worshipping the IDEA of the Perfect Human.

That concept summarizes and links the most conservative fundamentalist with the most liberal progressive believer.

The belief itself unifies all of us

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Do you think the same would have applied to Adam and Eve, pre-fall?

And, in that same vein of thinking, would all of the other things that people question about there being no death before the Fall apply to Jesus? For example, even without blood, did Jesus experience cell death (e.g., no fingernails)?

 

Arg, now there is another nail in the coffin I can't figure, not so much for someone crafted like Adam, mainly as someone theoretically born immoral... No cellular death means Jesus' hair and beard won't grow. There's an image to think about.

Maybe this works better if we stuck to a half-god's ratio shifting.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Pyreaux