God in our Image?

[mfbukowski]

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Okay then. Yes i made a mistake about Mormons not being Christians. But i can remember that i heard something like that in my church. That "we Mormons are differend from the other Christians." Everyone tells me something else. It is for me also confusing. 

I accept your apology though. 

Thank you. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Okay then. Yes i made a mistake about Mormons not being Christians. But i can remember that i heard something like that in my church. That "we Mormons are differend from the other Christians." Everyone tells me something else. It is for me also confusing. 

I accept your apology though. 

There are a few members here in the States and Canada who don’t want to be called Christian because they have had very bad experiences with antimormons who call themselves Christians and who use the label as a weapon against those they disagree with (as in refusing to allow others to define their own beliefs).  The Latter-day Saints who reject the label “Christian” don’t want to be seen as in brotherhood with such jerks.  But the vast majority of members want to be known as Christian and hearing someone say we are not Christian can be a button pusher because of their history with Antimormons saying they are not.

I don’t know how members in the rest of the world react to different names though.  
 

Becoming a Latter-day Saint is like moving to a new country with a new language.  There are many things we have in common with other faiths, but many things that are different.  We even use the same words differently.  It can be very confusing.  Even those brought up in the Church can get confused over stuff.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Calm

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

Woah. I met a gorgeous Mennonite once at a nude beach in Virginia. From the Augsburger family. Never forgot her.

That is too too too too funny! The Augsburgers are Mennonite royalty. One brother is a scholar and the other a retired pastor and bishop in some of the largest Mennonite churches. One was my pastor, baptized my son, and licensed me to the gospel ministry. Whenever on this forum I have said that one of the most Godly men I have known was a Mennonite bishop, I am referring to one of the Augsburgers. BTW, several of them live in the Shenandoah Valley. That's a long way to the beach. I hope she at least had her head covering on! You made me smile! Thanks for that. I am the treasurer for an international group of scholars. I have been working since 3 this morning on my year-end report and budget for this year. Zillions of numbers to calculate . . . thanks for the smile and the fond remembrance of the Augsburgers in my life.

[Chum]

7 minutes ago, Navidad said:

BTW, several of them live in the Shenandoah Valley. That's a long way to the beach. I hope she at least had her head covering on!

She was from a Midwest state, maybe Wisconsin. I know her clan owned the brewery. She used to visit family in Leopoldst-something Germany. She might have had a head-covering on but I wasn't paying close attention.

I was there with a gay friend who's dad had a trailer by the beach. She was traveling with a lesbian friend. As I recall, our traveling companions were very patient.

[Dario_M]

40 minutes ago, Calm said:

There are a few members here in the States and Canada who don’t want to be called Christian because they have had very bad experiences with antimormons who call themselves Christians and who use the label as a weapon against those they disagree with (as in refusing to allow others to define their own beliefs).  The Latter-day Saints who reject the label “Christian” don’t want to be seen as in brotherhood with such jerks.  But the vast majority of members want to be known as Christian and hearing someone say we are not Christian can be a button pusher because of their history with Antimormons saying they are not.

 

Yes okay. But for me that makes it really confusing you know. 🎭

40 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t know if how members in the rest of the world react to different names though.  
 

Becoming a Latter-day Saint is like moving to a new country with a new language.  There are many things we have in common with other faiths, but many things that are different.  We even use the same words differently.  It can be very confusing.  Even those brought up in the Church can get confused over stuff.

That is why i thought that Mormons are not Christians. Logic right?  Plus i heard some people in my church also saying the same thing. 

[Kenngo1969]

45 minutes ago, Navidad said:

... I have been working since 3 this morning on my year-end report and budget for this year. Zillions of numbers to calculate . . . thanks for the smile and the fond remembrance of the Augsburgers in my life.

Good luck!  👍

[Navidad]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Okay then. Yes i made a mistake about Mormons not being Christians. But i can remember that i heard something like that in my church. That "we Mormons are differend from the other Christians." Everyone tells me something else. It is for me also confusing. 

I accept your apology though. 

It is all indeed very confusing. I live in Chihuahua, Mexico and have attended an LDS ward for five years. We are not members, but we enjoy the fellowship and worship. I am a Christian first, an Evangelical second, and a Mennonite third. And we attend an LDS ward here in Mexico. I have been on this forum for about five years as well. I want to welcome you to the forum. As a non-LDS Christian, I really do enjoy it. I am sure you will enjoy it as well. We are a community here, even if sometimes we fuss at each other. The most important thing is that we each claim Christ as our Savior ! That unites us in spite of our differences.  Best wishes, Navidad.

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Okay then. Yes i made a mistake about Mormons not being Christians. But i can remember that i heard something like that in my church. That "we Mormons are differend from the other Christians." Everyone tells me something else. It is for me also confusing. 

I accept your apology though. 

Thanks again, please notice also that I do clown around a lot not intending to be insulting.

But I really need a vacation.

I have one more thread to start, and then I think I will be on my way. All my best to you; study the church well. I converted 43 years ago and have had nearly every calling at the ward level and I learn more daily. It's a never ending path of learning and spiritual progression 

[Calm]

43 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Thanks again, please notice also that I do clown around a lot not intending to be insulting.

But I really need a vacation.

I have one more thread to start, and then I think I will be on my way. All my best to you; study the church well. I converted 43 years ago and have had nearly every calling at the ward level and I learn more daily. It's a never ending path of learning and spiritual progression 

You pick up more of culture if you were born in it and moved around a bit to experience the variations on a theme, but I am certain there is stuff I am still clueless about…especially how things are run because I have never been in a leadership position and I know of other members who are unfamiliar with the stuff I know, your knowledge varies on where you are planted and where you do your digging, exploring, spelunking (not sure the word works there, but I love it, so sticking it in).  It is a complex community…not as complex as Catholic community for sure as they have a millennium and more to add their layers…

Though if you are born into it, it can be harder to figure out what the culture is because it’s like breathing the air around you…as long as clean and plentiful, it’s not usually that noticeable.  There are definite benefits to being an adult convert as you can choose what of the culture to adapt and what is more hassle than it’s worth.

I am not sure if being a convert or being raised in church is actually easier to learn doctrine by because stuff you learn as a kid you rarely question or think about it and if you misunderstood the actual doctrine, it might affect much of your overall understanding. Converts seem to be more willing to accept they got the wrong idea while those raised in the church seem to be more insistent they have got it right even if you can point to handbook or other materials showing them they misunderstood.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

Error

Edited January 8, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Dario_M]

16 hours ago, Navidad said:

It is all indeed very confusing. I live in Chihuahua, Mexico and have attended an LDS ward for five years. We are not members, but we enjoy the fellowship and worship. I am a Christian first, an Evangelical second, and a Mennonite third. And we attend an LDS ward here in Mexico. I have been on this forum for about five years as well. I want to welcome you to the forum. As a non-LDS Christian, I really do enjoy it. I am sure you will enjoy it as well. We are a community here, even if sometimes we fuss at each other. The most important thing is that we each claim Christ as our Savior ! That unites us in spite of our differences.  Best wishes, Navidad.

Yes that is true. We prat to the same god. 

[Dario_M]

15 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Thanks again, please notice also that I do clown around a lot not intending to be insulting.

But I really need a vacation.

 

Yes honeyboo i see that now. 🎭

[mfbukowski]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

I am not sure if being a convert or being raised in church is actually easier to learn doctrine by because stuff you learn as a kid you rarely question or think about it and if you misunderstood the actual doctrine, it might affect much of your overall understanding. Converts seem to be more willing to accept they got the wrong idea while those raised in the church seem to be more insistent they have got it right even if you can point to handbook or other materials showing them they misunderstood.

Yep.

And I never really accepted Mormon pioneer culture, I was going by the American Pragmatism that grounded the culture, which was not "Protestantized", and as a snob figured nothing good could come from anywhere west of the Hudson.

I finally got over that- kind of. 🧐

[Eschaton]

Here's an interesting video I just saw from Dan McClellan that summarizes research that suggests that people tend to unconsciously see God in anthropomorphic terms, even if their professed theological views are that of a less anthropomorphized deity: 

 

 

 

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, Eschaton said:

Here's an interesting video I just saw from Dan McClellan that summarizes research that suggests that people tend to unconsciously see God in anthropomorphic terms, even if their professed theological views are that of a less anthropomorphized deity: 

 

 

 

Yes of course. This is why an anthropomorphic Ideal Human is the best possible paradigm for the improvement of humanity; emulating the Ideal morally etc. It is inborn, and even atheists understand that.

Is it just evolution?

It doesn't matter.

It works pragmatically.

  And Alma 32 says truth is what is sweet, and I cannot imagine a sweeter idea than a loving anthropomorphic father watching over us in love.

Yes, it really IS that simple

[Dario_M]

12 hours ago, Eschaton said:

Here's an interesting video I just saw from Dan McClellan that summarizes research that suggests that people tend to unconsciously see God in anthropomorphic terms, even if their professed theological views are that of a less anthropomorphized deity: 

 

 

 

Is he a Mormon? A member of the LDS church. 

Not that it doesn't matter offcourse. Just curious. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Is he a Mormon? A member of the LDS church. 

Not that it doesn't matter offcourse. Just curious. 

Yes, he works for the Church’s scripture translation department. He is positively brilliant, imo.

[Dario_M]

36 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yes, he works for the Church’s scripture translation department. He is positively brilliant, imo.

Aaawh i see. How interesting. 😌 I am going to check him out. 

[Eschaton]

8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Yes of course. This is why an anthropomorphic Ideal Human is the best possible paradigm for the improvement of humanity; emulating the Ideal morally etc. It is inborn, and even atheists understand that.

Is it just evolution?

It doesn't matter.

It works pragmatically.

  And Alma 32 says truth is what is sweet, and I cannot imagine a sweeter idea than a loving anthropomorphic father watching over us in love.

Yes, it really IS that simple

I'm sure it's easier to relate to a human-like conception of God. We don't have examples in life of a conscious, intelligent, but non-human being to pull from in thinking about God, in praying to God, and so forth.  

[Dario_M]

On 1/9/2023 at 2:46 PM, Eschaton said:

I'm sure it's easier to relate to a human-like conception of God. We don't have examples in life of a conscious, intelligent, but non-human being to pull from in thinking about God, in praying to God, and so forth.  

I have no idea how god must look like. I guess he will be full of light though. 🌈 In al type of colors. Colors that don't even exist in this world maybe. 🌈

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

I have no idea how god must look like. I guess he will be full of light though. 🌈 In al type of colors. Colors that don't even exist in this world maybe. 🌈

Colors, tastes, fragrances, and even senses we have not experienced, because we don't need those senses to survive here.

Do certain stars smell alike?  Or what's it like to be a bat and hear shapes and obstacles as we fly by? 

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, mfbukowski said:

Colors, tastes, fragrances, and even senses we have not experienced, because we don't need those senses to survive here.

Do certain stars smell alike?  Or what's it like to be a bat and hear shapes and obstacles as we fly by? 

Yes. Indeed. We think that we can see and hear everything. And that there exist nothing more then that we can see and hear and feel. But that is not true. 

[mfbukowski]

35 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Yes. Indeed. We think that we can see and hear everything. And that there exist nothing more then that we can see and hear and feel. But that is not true. 

Exactly!

The world as we know it is created by our senses, but that is only "Reality" as we know it

There can be much more about reality than we are designed/evolved to be able to know.

But all science can tell us about is limited by our senses, and then languge.

What would we call a new sense?

One must create the idea of what such a thing could be like, and then make up a word to attach to it so we can talk about it

John 1 talks about the world being created by the "Word" - the savior, but I think there is a lot more to that idea;, it has two meanings.

Edited January 10, 2023 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

36 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Yes. Indeed. We think that we can see and hear everything. And that there exist nothing more then that we can see and hear and feel. But that is not true. 

Wow.

You may be one of the only folks around here who get that.

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Exactly!

The world as we know it is created by our senses, but that is only "Reality" as we know it

There can be much more about reality than we are designed/evolved to be able to know.

But all science can tell us about is limited by our senses, and then languge.

What would we call a new sense?

One must create the idea of what such a thing could be like, and then make up a word to attach to it so we can talk about it

John 1 talks about the world being created by the "Word" - the savior, but I think there is a lot more to that idea;, it has two meanings.

What i also don't understand....why are we not telepatic? Why can we not hear (or see) what somebody is thinking. I mean it is logic that we are not able to pick that up offcourse. But is that really so? 

Me and me ex did a experiment years ago when we still where in a relationship. The experiment whas that we looked each other deep in the eyes and i whas thinking about a number and he needed to guess wich number i whas thinking of. In my head i screamed the number. But i didn't say anything. My mouth shut.  And my bf had one minute to guess wich number i whas thinking of. And guess what. 5 times that we did that experiment he  geussed the numbers right!!! 🤯  That whas soo weird. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Dario_M