Joseph Smith and His teaching about wayward children

[Calm]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

We don't even know what JS meant by using 'salvation' in the quote above and are still trying to figure it out all these years later.  And we have a lot more experience with the gospel than a 13 year old girl would.

And over a hundred and fifty years of living with the beliefs of salvation, eternal life, and exaltation.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

A website with undocumented quotes filled with elipses isn't a reliable source. This site is a horrible offender and shouldn't be trusted even if it does get a quote right....use valid sources.

I wasn’t paying attention to let that link pass.  Years ago, I researched all the parts of the quotes of Helen they put up.  They connected comments from different times of her life together as if said at the same time and left out relevant comments that affected meaning.  I was rather shocked at how blatant it was.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

That website is the very one I stumbled on, never to be the same again. 

I remember.

[bluebell]

44 minutes ago, rongo said:

Here are some others (typed up from my index):

Joseph F. Smith, April 11, 1878. Journal of Discourses19:264 Jesus had not finished his work when his body was slain, neither did he finish it after his resurrection from the dead, although he had accomplished the purpose for which he then came to the earth, he had not fulfilled all his work. And when will he? Not until he has redeemed and saved every son and daughter of our father Adam that has or ever will be born upon this earth to the end of time, except the sons of perdition. That is his mission.

Joseph F. Smith, Sunday, June 18, 1882. Journal of Discourses 23:175 the mission of Jesus will be unfinished until he redeems the whole human family, except the sons of perdition, and also this earth from the curse that is upon it, and both the earth and its inhabitants can be presented to the Father redeemed, sanctified and glorious.

Brigham Young, October 8, 1859. Journal of Discourses 7:336  I know that parents are often much troubled about their children. I have heard many relate their troubles and sorrows in this respect, though they are comparatively trifling, unless your children disregard all your tender solicitude and wise counsels and examples, and, when arrived at maturity, forsake you and go headlong to destruction, when you will think that you never had any trouble until then. The want of bread for them in their infancy was no sorrow, when compared with such a trial. Parents---you who continue to live the life of true Christians, and are filled with faith, virtue, and good works, I promise you, in the name of Israel's God, that you will have your children, and no power can rob you of them; for all will be saved, except the sons of perdition. If they go to hell, you will have the privilege of dragging them from there, if you are faithful. That is the promise made to Abraham. You are aware that the children of Israel acted as badly as the Devil could make them, and the Lord afflicted them in this life, because of the promise he made to their father Abraham that he would save his seed.    

Brigham Young, April 6, 1860. Journal of Discourses 8:35 How many Gods there are, and how many places there are in their kingdoms, is not for me to say; but I can say this, which is a source of much comfort, consolation, and gratification to me: Behold the goodness, the long-suffering, the kindness, and the strong parental feeling of our Father and God in preparing the way and providing the means to save the children of men,---not alone the Latter-day Saints---not those alone who have the privilege of the first principles of the celestial law, but to save all. It is a universal salvation---a universal redemption. Do not conclude that I am a Universalist, as the term is generally understood, although that doctrine is true in part, like the doctrines or professions of all professing Christians. As was stated yesterday, by one of those who spoke, when he was a Methodist, he enjoyed a portion of the Spirit of the Lord. Hundreds of those now present have had a like experience in a greater or less degree, before they joined this Church. Then, when we inquire who will be saved, I answer, All will be saved, as Jesus said, when speaking to the Apostles, except the sons of perdition. They will be saved through the atonement and their own good works, according to the law that is given to them. Will the heathen be saved? Yes, so far as they have lived according to the best light and intelligence they had; but not in the celestial kingdom. Who will not be saved? Those who have received the truth, or had the privilege of receiving it, and then rejected it. They are the only ones who will become the sons of perdition, go into everlasting punishment, and become angels to the Devil.     

Orson Pratt, September 16, 1860. Journal of Discourses 8:311  We might mention the following in the revelation upon marriage, concerning sealing blessings upon persons, and sealing them up to eternal life---sealing upon them blessings for time and for all eternity, at the time when the man and woman go forth and are sealed unconditionally; at least, the revelation says, if such a one transgresses, he shall be destroyed in the flesh and suffer until the day of redemption; and then they shall come forth and inherit all that was placed upon their heads by the servants of God, on the condition that they have not committed the sin against the Holy Ghost or shed innocent blood. This would seem to be as near as unconditional promise as can well be made to mortals. But this is not altogether unconditional, for there are some exceptions; but it would come as near as anything we have ever read of. This ought to be a comfort to the Saints, and not a license for them to sin and commit all manner of blasphemies; but it should be a comfort and a consolation to those that may, in the hour of temptation, be overtaken in a fault, to encourage them to turn unto the Lord their God with all their hearts, minds, might, and strength. Then they can lay hold of these promises, and with them come forth in the morning of the first resurrection, and inherit all that was placed upon their heads. But when we reflect upon pain in this life, it is grievous to be borne and to think of. When we think that a man may be buffeted, not only in this life, but until the morning of the first resurrection, this ought to cause the heart of every Latter-day Saint to shrink from everything that is sinful. What! shall we offend God who has made these great and precious promises? Where is our life, if we should offend God, the giver of all these good things? If we should dare to sin upon such a promise, we should indeed be deserving of the severest punishment. Let no Latter-day Saint, then, try to claim these great and precious things, if they willfully commit sin, and because the Lord has promised that they should only be punished for a season. The time of their punishment is here in this life, and it is sure not to extend into the other for any great period. Yet there is far more satisfaction in being perfectly honest before God and men,---yes, far more satisfaction, joy, and consolation here in this life, to live without any threatening and punishment in this or in the next life.     

Brigham Young, April 29, 1866. Journal of Discourses 11:215  I could say something encouraging to parents, if they would heed. Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang.    

Brigham Young, August 11, 1872. Journal of Discourses 15:128 "Well," says one, if I am pretty sure to get a state of glory better than this, I guess I will not take the trouble to inherit anything more." Well, run the risk of it, every man on the earth has that privilege. The Gospel is preached, sin revives, some die and some contend against it---some receive it and some do not; but this is the sin of the people---truth is told them and they reject it. This is the sin of the world, "Light has come into the world, but men love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil." So said Jesus in his day. We say, Here is the Gospel of life and salvation, and every one that will receive it, glory, honor, immortality and eternal life are theirs; if they reject it, they take their chance. I hope and pray that we may all be wise and receive the good part, that we may have the benefit thereof.     

Brigham Young, October 8, 1876. Journal of Discourses 18:263 A few words to the sisters---you mothers who are trifling with the ordinances of the house of God, and the blessings that are proffered to you, I will say that the time will come, if you persist in doing so, when you will mourn, and will be willing to give worlds, if you possessed them, for the privilege of living your lives over again. Some of you are treating with contempt the oracles of the kingdom of God upon the earth, and in commission of this sin you trifle with your own salvation, as well as the salvation of your children. Repent, and turn unto God, and teach your children the importance of doing the same, and of the sacredness of the ordinances and the laws of God. It is the mother's influence that is most effective in molding the mind of the child for good or for evil. If she treat lightly the things of God; it is more than likely her children will be inclined to do the same, and the Lord will not hold her guiltless when he comes to make up his jewels; he will disown all such when he comes to claim his own, and will say, Go hence, I never knew you.     

Brigham Young, October 9, 1859. Journal of Discourses 7:289 I will now tell you something that ought to comfort every man and woman on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith, junior, will again be on this earth dictating plans and calling forth his brethren to be baptized for the very characters who wish this was not so, in order to bring them into a kingdom to enjoy, perhaps, the presence of angels or the spirits of good men, if they cannot endure the presence of the Father and the Son; and he will never cease his operations, under the directions of the Son of God, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now.

Orson Pratt, January 19, 1873. Journal of Discourses 15:318 I will here ask, will many of these individuals who have sinned against God come forth and inherit that high degree of exaltation in the celestial world? This is a great question. Can they inherit the same glory that will be enjoyed by the Saints who have lived in different ages of the world and endured faithful to the end? Can they receive that full exaltation and shine forth in the kingdom of God? No. Why not? Because they are not prepared for it. I do not say but what they may in some future age, according to the purposes of God, be led along from one step to another, until, finally, some of them attain to celestial glory.  

ETA: @bluebell  They were very particular to exempt the sons of perdition from this otherwise seemingly universal "reaching" of the covenants. I found that interesting going back to look for these. 

It seems that the promises made to sealed parents are the same as the promises made to everyone, when it comes to eternity. 

[rongo]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It seems that the promises made to sealed parents are the same as the promises made to everyone, when it comes to eternity. 

Yes, but I wouldn't trade the blessings we get in the here and now for anything.  

[The Nehor]

“The time of their punishment is here in this life, and it is sure not to extend into the other for any great period.”

I am not sure whether this is horrifying or comforting.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Yes, but I wouldn't trade the blessings we get in the here and now for anything.  

Me neither.  And they are incredibly powerful.  I think that sometimes though, if the things I hear expressed in Sunday school and RS classes are any indication, that we project what we want to be true (that our agency can supercede that of our children's and get them exalted despite their choices) onto that statement, instead of holding tightly to what is true, and putting the rest in the hands of our Savior.

Because what is true is absolutely amazing.  But it is not a guarantee, and that can be terrifying.

[let’s roll]

 God has kept all His covenants.  What would justify our receiving a different result than His with regard to wayward children?

Edited April 17, 2022 by let’s roll

[The Nehor]

On 4/11/2022 at 9:17 PM, bluebell said:

Me neither.  And they are incredibly powerful.  I think that sometimes though, if the things I hear expressed in Sunday school and RS classes are any indication, that we project what we want to be true (that our agency can supercede that of our children's and get them exalted despite their choices) onto that statement, instead of holding tightly to what is true, and putting the rest in the hands of our Savior.

Because what is true is absolutely amazing.  But it is not a guarantee, and that can be terrifying.

I know, I was thinking that the promise to my parents might have been my best hope. 

[HappyJackWagon]

On 4/11/2022 at 6:37 PM, rongo said:

Brigham Young, who is the source for some of the promises, believed that sons of perdition have their intelligence stripped from their spirit matter, and start all over again. So, it worked within our doctrine as he understood it. 

I see it as akin to the Second Anointing. Neither are absolute --- people can't be saved against their will, and they can't be saved when they're still evil, regardless of what ordinances have been performed. But, the teachings offer a tremendous amount of hope --- especially through the lens of "eternal" eternal progression (progression between kingdoms and within kingdoms). 

Wow. I've never heard that teaching before. Reincarnation of the sons of perdition? yikes. That doesn't sound too good.

 

On 4/11/2022 at 6:29 PM, bluebell said:

But do the promises work with our doctrine?

According to the promises, sons of perdition won’t exist. 

I've also never heard that son's of perdition wouldn't exist. It has always been my understanding that sons of perdition would receive the same fate as Satan and his minions, cast out from any degree of glory and therefore have no possibility of eternal progression.

 

[HappyJackWagon]

On 4/11/2022 at 9:17 PM, bluebell said:

Me neither.  And they are incredibly powerful.  I think that sometimes though, if the things I hear expressed in Sunday school and RS classes are any indication, that we project what we want to be true (that our agency can supercede that of our children's and get them exalted despite their choices) onto that statement, instead of holding tightly to what is true, and putting the rest in the hands of our Savior.

Because what is true is absolutely amazing.  But it is not a guarantee, and that can be terrifying.

I think it is an outstanding teaching, if for no other reason it attempts to remove the types of eternal judgements we place on one another and our family members. IF the membership actually believed and acted on this teaching I think it would create a much more humble and accepting culture within the church.

If it's not true, it would still teach members to be more loving and accepting of those they consider to be "wayward".

If it is true, it is just another illustration that we cannot understand the judgements of God and therefore we should stop trying to pass judgements as if we were God.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Wow. I've never heard that teaching before. Reincarnation of the sons of perdition? yikes. That doesn't sound too good.

 

I've also never heard that son's of perdition wouldn't exist. It has always been my understanding that sons of perdition would receive the same fate as Satan and his minions, cast out from any degree of glory and therefore have no possibility of eternal progression.

 

If parents being sealed meant that all their children would be saved, and if all parents will eventually be sealed (which is our doctrine, that eventually everyone will be sealed together) then who is left to not inherit that blessing from their parents sealing? 

[HappyJackWagon]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If parents being sealed meant that all their children would be saved, and if all parents will eventually be sealed (which is our doctrine, that eventually everyone will be sealed together) then who is left to not inherit that blessing from their parents sealing? 

True- And if that's true, we may all be stressing a bit too much about our personal worthiness and/or the worthiness of others instead of holding tight to the grace of God through Jesus.

The whole concept of this life being a test and our eternal reckoning being tied to that test result kind of falls flat on its face.

I've said the many times but I think if I, the church, everyone, could be humble about how little we know about anything relating to God and eternity, we would treat each other better and ultimately follow the 2 great commandments more correctly.

[Vanguard]

3 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

True- And if that's true, we may all be stressing a bit too much about our personal worthiness and/or the worthiness of others instead of holding tight to the grace of God through Jesus.

The whole concept of this life being a test and our eternal reckoning being tied to that test result kind of falls flat on its face.

I've said the many times but I think if I, the church, everyone, could be humble about how little we know about anything relating to God and eternity, we would treat each other better and ultimately follow the 2 great commandments more correctly.

Really good comments there, HJW. : ) For me, these promises border on meaninglessness. I vaguely remember a statement - I believe it was from Kimball? - that if we were faithful in conducting family home evenings, our children would come back to the fold or some such. I also remember immediately thinking, "Well, my wife and I screwed that one up - we skipped at least one family home evening to watch Monday night football instead". And that's my disconnect with these types of promises. My wife and I have not been entirely faithful nor have we always, entirely repented of such shortcomings so I guess we're out of that promise also. Good grief, no porridge for you, Vanguard. ; )

[Calm]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Reincarnation of the sons of perdition?

I have heard this from those who don’t see the original intelligence as a being, but rather the sentient building blocks of the spirits that are pulled together by God and become a spirit and that is the beginning of us as individuals (so we are really just spirit and body in terms of person rather than intelligence, spirit, and body).  So the personality that is a son of perdition is not starting over, but the bits of intelligence (that perhaps have enough sentience to desire to progress) have the chance to become something more than they are still.

However, I don’t know if everyone who speculates this for any reason believes in the above.

A discussion on some versions:

https://bycommonconsent.com/2009/04/15/tripartite-existentialism/

God choosing to create our beings by picking what intelligent elements to mix together appears to me to recreate the problem of evil as we believe God is omniscient or at least knowledgeable enough to see what type of being we will be from our beginning as a being/personality/unique individual, because that means he created a being that he knew would be a son of perdition, Telestial bound, etc.  If something like Gender is part of our eternal nature, it seems to me that other distinct contributors to our individuality could be detailed enough that God would be able to foresee what features he was plugging in would lead to (an element of gender added to an element of temper added to an element of extroversion/introversion or whatever leads to those attributes…hopefully that makes sense on the screen like it does in my head).  Think of it like those facial identi kits, which mix and match different facial features so you can approximate any face, except the mix and match pieces are attributes of individual being and are unique so impossible to create identical beings.

My view is therefore whatever we were for eternity (the uncreated part) before we became his spirit children, we were individuals already.

Another option could be that while he might have pulled the intelligence elements together, he could not foresee what the combination would yield as the bonds created between the elements were the result of a truly random process.  Iow, it was not a recipe of specific elements chosen for a specific purpose (like needing flour or sweetener, but the final product will vary if you choose whole wheat flour vs almond, white sugar vs monk fruit, an experienced baker will be able to predict what the bread will be like even if brand new combination is tried) that would create a specific type of individual personality (flashing way back to the opening scene of Milton the Monster where Daddy Mad Scientist accidentally pours in too much tincture of tenderness***) , so much as needing enough of the element blocks to trigger thought or whatever being an individual means, so God just scoops up enough to start the reactions that create a unique individual that is unique not only because of the elements chosen, but how they unpredictably combined/linked.

Would be interested in hearing others’ ideas on what we were eternally.

***https://youtu.be/9JD9it6SmB8

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Calm

[HappyJackWagon]

45 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Really good comments there, HJW. : ) For me, these promises border on meaninglessness. I vaguely remember a statement - I believe it was from Kimball? - that if we were faithful in conducting family home evenings, our children would come back to the fold or some such. I also remember immediately thinking, "Well, my wife and I screwed that one up - we skipped at least one family home evening to watch Monday night football instead". And that's my disconnect with these types of promises. My wife and I have not been entirely faithful nor have we always, entirely repented of such shortcomings so I guess we're out of that promise also. Good grief, no porridge for you, Vanguard. ; )

Thanks.

Regarding "promises" (I have strong feelings about promises) I would take it a step further because this has LONG been a pet peeve of mine, even during my faithful days. I've heard promises from ward leaders, stake leaders, general leaders promising things like "if you have FHE faithfully, none of your children will be lost" OR "if you read the BoM every day your children will be saved" OR "if you share the BoM with a friend X number of baptisms will come as an indirect result" etc. etc. Leaders like to make promises because it's motivating. But some promises are so vague they are meaningless and not even motivating, such as "if you attend church you will be blessed". Cool. Define "blessed". If I don't attend are you promising that I'll be cursed?

Making a promise on behalf of God, In My Opinion, Is the quintessential example of Taking the name of God in vain. Unless someone happens to be THE prophet and was told directly from God to make a specific promise to others on God's behalf, which I would characterize as SUPER RARE at the very least, then a person has absolutely no business making any kind of promise on God's behalf. That person is claiming God's name as the payer of that promise even though the vast majority of promise makers of God's blessings received no such permission. Promises become meaningless.

 

*however, I'll also add that I am very cautious about making promises in my personal life as well. This is because I recognize that even if I make my best effort to keep the promises, all things are not in my control. I view people who make promises as being similar to people who constantly say "trust me". The last thing I'm likely to do is trust them   or believe their repeated promises

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Unless someone happens to be THE prophet and was told directly from God to make a specific promise to others on God's behalf, which I would characterize as SUPER RARE at the very least, then a person has absolutely no business making any kind of promise on God's behalf

General vending machine promised blessings I would agree, but a healing blessing, patriarchal blessings, inspired fathers’ blessings (and mothers’ in my view if they choose to give one) given to an individual, it is doctrinal that those who are not The Prophet can still give promises to individuals if so inspired.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Calm

[HappyJackWagon]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

General vending machine promised blessings I would agree, but a healing blessing, patriarchal blessings, inspired fathers’ blessings (and mothers’ in my view if they choose to give one) given to an individual, it is doctrinal that those who are not The Prophet can still give promises to individuals if so inspired.

That's true.

However, I've witnessed enough healing blessings "promising" a certain result that doesn't happen, that I can't really take those promises seriously. I believe that the individual promising has good intentions and wants the promise to be true, but alas, I suspect it's more of a 50/50 proposition. Again, it reduces the value of any religious promise. I think people use that word to sound sure, and confident, and authoritative, but I find it to be very rare that the person actually has the authority that God will do what is promised. Of course the caveat of "the Lords will be done" just in case things don't work out. As you can tell, my experiences have led me to become very skeptical

[rongo]

27 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's true.

However, I've witnessed enough healing blessings "promising" a certain result that doesn't happen, that I can't really take those promises seriously. I believe that the individual promising has good intentions and wants the promise to be true, but alas, I suspect it's more of a 50/50 proposition. Again, it reduces the value of any religious promise. I think people use that word to sound sure, and confident, and authoritative, but I find it to be very rare that the person actually has the authority that God will do what is promised. Of course the caveat of "the Lords will be done" just in case things don't work out. As you can tell, my experiences have led me to become very skeptical

Not disputing anything you've said here. I have found that, as then Elder Oaks taught, people get the blessing God has for them, despite wording. My own personal experience leans heavily towards miraculous and efficacious healing --- so much so, that my wife and children have rock solid belief in this. We have every expectation that prophesied healing will come to pass from our life experience. Still, it's also not good if what is prophesied repeatedly doesn't come to pass (in spades). I have an outlier extreme example where I blessed a young woman with recovery, and she died the next day. Her non-member parents and brother who were present, and the nurse attending her at the time did not react how one would expect with that (the nurse wanted to know what church we were from after). I thought that the family would have been hurt, angry, and skeptical, but they didn't react that way. 

President Packer told us as a stake conference that far too many men "play it safe" in blessings and avoid prophesying or saying anything monumental, preferring bland, generic, safe blessings. He told us to prophesy, and leave it up to God to back it up. There's no denying, though, that giving blessings is an awe-inspiring, awesome, and awful responsibility, and each time you walk the razor's edge. Past success is no guarantee in the present, and I think it's just as "scary" for an apostle as it is for a layman --- again, despite even decades of experience. It's humbling, and every time is potentially different --- sometimes, you feel powerful "back of the Ensign" inspiration. Other times, you feel nothing. 

I'm grateful that in my own experience, it is much, much higher than a 50/50 proposition. But, I accept others' experiences that are quite different at face value, and some have not had a good experience track record at all. I think that I would rather be at the one end of the pole than the other (faith and expectation over skepticism and a feeling that it doesn't really have an effect). 

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I have heard this from those who don’t see the original intelligence as a being, but rather the sentient building blocks of the spirits that are pulled together by God and become a spirit and that is the beginning of us as individuals (so we are really just spirit and body in terms of person rather than intelligence, spirit, and body).  So the personality that is a son of perdition is not starting over, but the bits of intelligence (that perhaps have enough sentience to desire to progress) have the chance to become something more than they are still.

However, I don’t know if everyone who speculates this for any reason believes in the above.

I find it to be an intriguing thought. It seems to have more purpose than eternity in outer darkness, and it would explain how there is never a lack of "qualified" tempters under Brigham Young's view that every world has its own savior and tempter (adversaries are essential to the plan, that which has been done in other worlds).

"Evil" intelligence is evil and uncreated, but I would like to think that there is at least a possibility that that "cycle" can be broken. 

It's also interesting to me from the point of view of comparative religion, kernels of truth everywhere, etc. Akin to Christian atonement and human sacrifice (warped application and understanding of the true principle of the need for atonement). Reincarnation and transmigration of souls are found in belief systems, ancient and modern, and I don't think they arose out of thin air. 

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, rongo said:

"Evil" intelligence is evil and uncreated, but I would like to think that there is at least a possibility that that "cycle" can be broken. 

Why would God knowingly give it a vehicle to progress to injure someone?

[rongo]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Why would God knowingly give it a vehicle to progress to injure someone?

Didn't God knowingly give Satan "a vehicle to progress to injure someone?" Why would He knowingly do that?

 

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, rongo said:

Didn't God knowingly give Satan "a vehicle to progress to injure someone?" Why would He knowingly do that?

 

I don’t believe individual evil is eternal.  I don’t believe someone like Daybell was destined to become a murderer from eternity because of the quality of his attributes of individuality.  
 

However, even if destined to become evil, if someone is not evil to begin with, is it fair to deprive them of something based on what they will become rather than what they are?

I am also iffy on if God knew when we were intelligences what we were certain to become.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Calm

[rongo]

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t believe individual evil is eternal.  I don’t believe someone like Daybell was destined to become a murderer from eternity because of the quality of his attributes of individuality.  

However, even if destined to become evil, if someone is not evil to begin with, is it fair to deprive them of something based on what they will become rather than what they are?

I am also iffy on if God knew when we were intelligences what we were certain to become.

This gets into theodicy (problem of evil). Is God all-knowing and all-powerful? Then He had to have created people to be and do evil things. Otherwise, He isn't all-powerful or all-knowing. Mormons get around this with D&C 93 (intelligence is eternal and not created). 

The Book of Abraham is our central scripture containing the doctrine of grades of intelligence. When coupled with D&C 93, it gives rise to the teaching of eternal, uncreated intelligence. 

In the case of Satan and those who followed him, they weren't deprived based on what they will become rather than what they are. They (when coupled with spirit matter -- "things to be acted upon" [intelligence being "that which acts"]) chose open rebellion against the plan. Under Brigham Young's idea, sons of perdition have their intelligence separated from their spirit matter (or also physical matter, in the case of resurrected sons of perdition), and the intelligence starts over. But, their eternal uncreated nature being what it is, the nature will still be evil. Like I said, I like to believe that there is a chance that even these can choose otherwise. I believe in limited omniscience and progression between kingdoms, so I'm more open to this possibility than some.