Interesting hymn alteration in general conference

[Scott Lloyd]

The Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square just sang the familiar hymn, “The Iron Rod.”

As it stands in our hymnal, it has a time signature change in the middle. That is, the verses are written in 3/4 time but the chorus shifts to 4/4 time. 
 

However, in the arrangement just performed by the choir, the entire song is in 4/4 time. I think I like it better that way. 
 

Did anyone else here besides me notice this?

[Ipod Touch]

I noticed, and was appalled.

Hymns should be performed *as written* and in no other way.  I was surprised to see the Choir disrespect the official Hymnal in this way.

 

 

[pogi]

32 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

I noticed, and was appalled.

Hymns should be performed *as written* and in no other way.  I was surprised to see the Choir disrespect the official Hymnal in this way.

 

 

The birth of the 6th sola.  

[HappyJackWagon]

Next thing you know the brethren will be introducing electric bass and drums to the arrangements. It's a slippery slope  

 

 

PS- yes, 4/4 seems appropriate

[Buckeye]

Over a decade ago I learned that the tune for ‘A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief’ is different in our hymnal from what was sung in Carthage jail. I found the original tune and got permission from the bishopric to have it sung in sacrament meeting in late June of that year. The original tune is plainer but it was touching to hear the same tune Joseph did. 

[MustardSeed]

22 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square just sang the familiar hymn, “The Iron Rod.”

As it stands in our hymnal, it has a time signature change in the middle. That is, the verses are written in 3/4 time but the chorus shifts to 4/4 time. 
 

However, in the arrangement just performed by the choir, the entire song is in 4/4 time. I think I like it better that way. 
 

Did anyone else here besides me notice this?

Yes I noticed.  Being a musician can be a blessing and a curse.

[MrShorty]

5 hours ago, Ipod Touch said:

I noticed, and was appalled.

Hymns should be performed *as written* and in no other way.  I was surprised to see the Choir disrespect the official Hymnal in this way.

 

 

For 20ish years I have been involved in our ward choir as an amateur musician bouncing between member and accompanist and director. I'm disinclined to put too many restrictions on how arrangers may choose to arrange the hymns of Zion. If someone wants to change time signature or key or embellish the melody or change the melodies or harmonies completely, I'm inclined to give them that artistic freedom. There are certainly arrangements I find appealing, and others I don't, but I don't think my sense of artistic appeal is the one true sense.

[Scott Lloyd]

44 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Yes I noticed.  Being a musician can be a blessing and a curse.

So did you like the way the choir performed it, or do you prefer the shifting time signature?

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

For 20ish years I have been involved in our ward choir as an amateur musician bouncing between member and accompanist and director. I'm disinclined to put too many restrictions on how arrangers may choose to arrange the hymns of Zion. If someone wants to change time signature or key or embellish the melody or change the melodies or harmonies completely, I'm inclined to give them that artistic freedom. There are certainly arrangements I find appealing, and others I don't, but I don't think my sense of artistic appeal is the one true sense.

Some accomplished musicians are the least tolerant individuals I’ve encountered for musical styles that don’t suit their preferences. 

[MustardSeed]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

So did you like the way the choir performed it, or do you prefer the shifting time signature?

I generally find that the choir performances are superior to any other experience I've had with any particular hymn, and this was no exception. If the choir sang a Led Zeppelin song I'd probably like the original better but Im sure the choir would even out all those pesky extra beats and keep it all at one time signature which would be pleasing to the ear.  

I'm not a huge hymn fan so my opinion isn't of great import.  I do love Be Still My Soul and That Easter Morn, and most of the sacrament hymns, but other than those, I can take or leave hymns so I won't be too upset when the new hymnal comes out. 

[MustardSeed]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Some accomplished musicians are the least tolerant individuals I’ve encountered for musical styles that don’t suit their preferences. 

That would be me. I hate hate hate the way young people sing in "cursive".  

[MrShorty]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Some accomplished musicians are the least tolerant individuals I’ve encountered for musical styles that don’t suit their preferences. 

 I think you are generally right, though I also think some accomplished musicians understand that their preferences are not the end all be all of hymnody. It might depend on the styles they are trained in. For me, part of what keeps me "humble" on this topic is that one of my favorite musical styles for religious music is bluegrass -- a style that often doesn't get the respect it deserves, and has generally been considered inappropriate for our sacrament services (we'll see if that changes with recent changes to the handbook). I guess just to say that I understand where some of that "snobbery" comes from.

Edited April 4, 2022 by MrShorty

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I generally find that the choir performances are superior to any other experience I've had with any particular hymn, and this was no exception. If the choir sang a Led Zeppelin song I'd probably like the original better but Im sure the choir would even out all those pesky extra beats and keep it all at one time signature which would be pleasing to the ear.  

I'm not a huge hymn fan so my opinion isn't of great import.  I do love Be Still My Soul and That Easter Morn, and most of the sacrament hymns, but other than those, I can take or leave hymns so I won't be too upset when the new hymnal comes out. 

OK. 
 

But what I was really asking was whether, all other things being equal, you prefer the shifting time signature or whether you would like a constant one better. 

[Scott Lloyd]

11 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

That would be me. I hate hate hate the way young people sing in "cursive".  

Meaning what?

[Stormin' Mormon]

54 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

 If the choir sang a Led Zeppelin song I'd probably like the original better

 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, MrShorty said:

one of my favorite musical styles for religious music is bluegrass 

With many of the hymn melodies originating from folk tunes, it definitely lends itself well.  There is nothing more pleasing than the yearning sound of a dobro or fiddle crying atop a gentle rhythmic percussions of the mandolin and mellow guitar.   With the steady melodic drive of a banjo cutting through the backbone of a chest thumping double bass it is a heavenly balance of tones and rhythm.  Couple that with top notch vocal harmonies singing the melodic songs of praise and it is next to heaven.  

Are you familiar with The Lower Lights hymnal revival music?  Pretty good stuff.  I had the pleasure of collaborating with Ryan Shupe (a guest musician) on my bands last album.    

1 hour ago, MrShorty said:

 and has generally been considered inappropriate for our sacrament services (we'll see if that changes with recent changes to the handbook). 

 My banjo is all tuned-up (I know a miracle!) and ready to go. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by pogi

[MustardSeed]

I guess if I’m forced to choose one I’ll choose the Choir’s version.

[MrShorty]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

Are you familiar with The Lower Lights hymnal revival music?  Pretty good stuff.

Not yet, but I will be familiarizing myself...

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I guess if I’m forced to choose one I’ll choose the Choir’s version.

Because it’s the choir singing it, or because you prefer the constant time signature to the shifting one?

[pogi]

20 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

Not yet, but I will be familiarizing myself...

They are a group of local Utah musicians from different bands and projects who have recorded several “revival hymn” music albums and put in a really great Christmas concert.  I like a lot of their stuff, some not so much.  While most is not technically bluegrass, it does have the old-timey vibe with folk/bluegrass instrumentation a lot.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by pogi

[InCognitus]

On 4/3/2022 at 2:36 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Did anyone else here besides me notice this?

I noticed that there was a difference because I was singing along with the choir during that song at home while I was packing some boxes for a move.  I was distracted by what I was doing, and I stumbled on every verse at the chorus because it was different.  I didn't really recognize why it was different until I saw your post. 

Which version did I like better?  I think I could like the choir version if I listened to it intently and wasn't trying to sing along without knowing of the change, but my not paying attention self liked the traditional version better.

Edited April 5, 2022 by InCognitus

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

I noticed that there was a difference because I was singing along with the choir during that song at home while I was packing some boxes for a move.  I was distracted by what I was doing, and I stumbled on every verse at the chorus because it was different.  I didn't really recognize why it was different until I saw your post. 

Which version did I like better?  I think I could like the choir version if I listened to it intently and wasn't trying to sing along without knowing of the change, but my not paying attention self liked the traditional version better.

Actually the chorus as the choir sang it has the same time signature (4/4) as the arrangement in the hymn book. It’s the verses that had a different time signature (4/4 instead of 3/4).

But I know what you’re saying. 

[MustardSeed]

Im not sure why these details of my opinion matter, but I like the choir version because the choir sang it beautifully and because the time signature is simple.  If I were being polled as to whether the new hymnal should change it I would say "don't bother.  Just write some better music period."

 

I hope that answers your question.

[pogi]

21 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

If I were being polled as to whether the new hymnal should change it I would say "don't bother.  Just write some better music period."

Ha, good answer! 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Im not sure why these details of my opinion matter, but I like the choir version because the choir sang it beautifully and because the time signature is simple.  If I were being polled as to whether the new hymnal should change it I would say "don't bother.  Just write some better music period."

 

I hope that answers your question.

I’m not suggesting the arrangement in the hymn book should be changed. I’m quite happy to go on singing it the way it is. 
 

I’m all for better music if such is forthcoming, but I love the traditional songs of Zion. I’ve always had an expansive capacity for music appreciation. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Scott Lloyd