Fether Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 Ether 12:35 "if the Gentiles have not acharity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and btake away their ctalent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly." Am I understanding this correctly, that God will take away our talents if we do not have charity? There are a lot of comas and it is hard to see what phrases are connected and what phrases are side notes.
Popular Post teddyaware Posted December 13, 2021 Popular Post Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Fether said: Ether 12:35 "if the Gentiles have not acharity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and btake away their ctalent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly." Am I understanding this correctly, that God will take away our talents if we do not have charity? There are a lot of comas and it is hard to see what phrases are connected and what phrases are side notes. Specifically speaking, this verse is referring to the gentiles of the last days, testifying that if they reject the restored gospel message of God’s love and salvation, as taught in the Book of Mormon and preached by God’s authorized servants of the latter-days, God will deprive said gentiles of the blessings and favors he once bestowed upon them and give them to another people who will be receptive to the Book of Mormon and the message of the restored gospel. The verse is speaking of the prophesied end of the ‘day of the gentiles’ when the United States and other gentile nations will lose their once abundant blessing and fall in disarray and ultimate destruction if they fail to heed the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. This is the time when the Jews, amongst others once deprived, will step up and receive the gospel blessings which will be rejected by the hateful and uncharitable gentiles who will even go so far as to make war against the Lamb of God and his Church as the ultimate manifestation of their apostasy and spiritual and temporal degeneration. The Book of Mormon makes it abundantly clear that the time will eventually come when the continued prosperity and success of the gentile nations will be tied directly to whether of not they receive and heed the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Edited December 13, 2021 by teddyaware 5
Nofear Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Fether said: Ether 12:35 "if the Gentiles have not acharity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and btake away their ctalent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly." Am I understanding this correctly, that God will take away our talents if we do not have charity? There are a lot of comas and it is hard to see what phrases are connected and what phrases are side notes. I read "talent" to be the same as the New Testament "talent" -- a monetary token. But, just like the New Testament, it can represent any number of gifts (including skill based talents). For example, the US is quite talented at innovation. If, as a nation, we are unable to be charitable (say to refugees, the poor, immigrants, etc.) and use our talents to bless the rest of the world, than the divine light of Christ which gives inspiration to the innovations of the world, will be diminished. 3
CV75 Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Fether said: Ether 12:35 "if the Gentiles have not acharity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and btake away their ctalent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly." Am I understanding this correctly, that God will take away our talents if we do not have charity? There are a lot of comas and it is hard to see what phrases are connected and what phrases are side notes. Moroni is summarizing his understanding that if the Gentiles reject the message of this book, they will lose the material and spiritual blessings they have. We often think of talents as stewardships, and there are many promises extended to the Gentiles, and prophecies about what is expected of them by way of stewardship in the latter days. Everyone can cultivate the pure love of Christ, and it entails the light of Christ and receptivity to the Gospel message. So, if we reject our stewardship, the negative consequences follow. 2
Calm Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Fether said: Ether 12:35 "if the Gentiles have not acharity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and btake away their ctalent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly." Am I understanding this correctly, that God will take away our talents if we do not have charity? There are a lot of comas and it is hard to see what phrases are connected and what phrases are side notes. Linking it to Nephi seems appropriate: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/26?lang=eng 1
mfbukowski Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 3 hours ago, CV75 said: Moroni is summarizing his understanding that if the Gentiles reject the message of this book, they will lose the material and spiritual blessings they have. Yeah but how about our unwillingness to get the message out there, because we might get criticism?
CV75 Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: Yeah but how about our unwillingness to get the message out there, because we might get criticism? Speaking as a Gentile, I still have charity toward Moroni and have accepted the gospel message. So far, so good. But not doing my part to get the message out there, or other deficits in discipleship, have their own negative consequences (for Jew and Gentile alike). These are addressed elsewhere in scripture, e.g. the parables of talents, stewards, etc. and more direct warnings in the D&C.
mfbukowski Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, CV75 said: Speaking as a Gentile, I still have charity toward Moroni and have accepted the gospel message. So far, so good. But not doing my part to get the message out there, or other deficits in discipleship, have their own negative consequences (for Jew and Gentile alike). These are addressed elsewhere in scripture, e.g. the parables of talents, stewards, etc. and more direct warnings in the D&C. Yes, but are you speaking as a "Gentile"? Ephraim? Adopted in? Very honestly I have never really gotten into all those details when I really never understood the importance of lineage- it seems a bit --- well- discriminatory to me. Frankly I think that if all Europeans are the descendents of Charlemagne- one person-then given 12 persons- the sons of Jacob/Israel and an additional few thousand years, it is a cinch that we are ALL literal descendents of at least one, "son of Israel" and therefore not gentiles- PLUS then we are adopted into Ephriam as members of the church anyway-- ?-- so I think we have the "gentile" thing licked. We jest ain't them folks. And then I have the side of me that thinks it's all allegorical anyway.... so ... ? Poof! For me the bottom line is we gotta be good missionaries, period, end of story. 1
CV75 Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Yes, but are you speaking as a "Gentile"? Ephraim? Adopted in? Very honestly I have never really gotten into all those details when I really never understood the importance of lineage- it seems a bit --- well- discriminatory to me. Frankly I think that if all Europeans are the descendents of Charlemagne- one person-then given 12 persons- the sons of Jacob/Israel and an additional few thousand years, it is a cinch that we are ALL literal descendents of at least one, "son of Israel" and therefore not gentiles- PLUS then we are adopted into Ephriam as members of the church anyway-- ?-- so I think we have the "gentile" thing licked. We jest ain't them folks. And then I have the side of me that thinks it's all allegorical anyway.... so ... ? Poof! For me the bottom line is we gotta be good missionaries, period, end of story. Yes, I would agree that is the bottom line, but that was not Moroni's particular, immediate point, as far as I can tell, a point I find very helpful. I take Moroni to mean that the Gentiles of the future / last days are the non-covenant people of the nations of the world (as opposed to the covenant people of the kingdom of God on earth). He feared they would reject his message. As an American, I am one those he counted as Gentiles. Fortunately, I am a covenant-keeping gentile convert into the kingdom of God on earth, making me a saint discovering the blessings of my Ephraimite lineage (which I knew or cared nothing about as a Gentile or gentile, but now appreciate as a saint); as an Ephraimite all along, I acted as a gentile and lived as a Gentile and had claim upon two sets of scriptural promises (Israel and Gentile). Today, I know that I am a saint, a Gentile and an Ephraimite (and no longer a gentile) and know these respective roles. Now if I don't carry each of them out righteously, I'm getting to your bottom line. But all Moroni was commenting on was my role as a Gentile; elsewhere the Lord promises us Gentiles who repent and come into the fold of Israel become saints, and claim the blessings of our tribal lineage (whether that is by blood or by adoption) as part of the organization of the kingdom of God on earth. He fretted that my nation in general would mock his words and overlook the salient message. The Lord told Him not to worry for the stated reasons and that He will judge my nation. I suppose in recognizing our fear of mockery in sharing the message of the Restoration, we can apply the many keys shared in the rest of Ether 12, which boils down to doing our level best. Edited December 13, 2021 by CV75 1
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