Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[Hamba Tuhan]

21 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

BTW, have you been teaching in the schools during the pandemic where masks are required? I have and I've witnessed children doing a wonderful job at wearing them. It seems that some adults are not supportive, and I wonder if their children follow suit, but last school year I got to see many different grades in elementary doing a fine job, until they grew older sadly. Either they're listening to their anti mask parents or peer group I don't know ...

Thank you for sharing. I found that during my time as a teacher, older students were an effective window into the attitudes of their parents/carers. What adults say/do in their homes inevitably shows up in classrooms.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Bernard Gui]

49 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Not in my opinion, it's another layer.

We have coughing/sneezing in the fist or hand right, how well does that do? Or we have sneezing underneath our shirts or in the crook of our elbow, better than in the palm or fist I'm thinking. And then add another layer, a well fitted cloth mask. But yes, ultimately we would do better with the N95 one. But we need to take what we can get or use what we have and be supportive of it, IMO.

BTW, have you been teaching in the schools during the pandemic where masks are required? I have and I've witnessed children doing a wonderful job at wearing them. It seems that some adults are not supportive, and I wonder if their children follow suit, but last school year I got to see many different grades in elementary doing a fine job, until they grew older sadly. Either they're listening to their anti mask parents or peer group I don't know, but the younger group were such examples for all. They had masks that had super heroes, or unicorns, or many other fun patterns. Don't believe I've seen anything like that in an N95 mask.

It kinda feels like you and Juliann are looking at this as an all or nothing. But I know that's not right probably, you both just want it to work even better. 

Here are some studies on the non medical masks etc.:

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/

No, we don’t need to take what we can get. If we are serious about this we need to have the best. That is totally within our reach. Mass produce the best, eliminate the rest, teach to the test. It’s so simple. Shot! Put Unicorns and Superheroes on them if you want. Good masks can be made as marketable as less effective ones.  I think studying non-medical masks is a waste of time and resources IMO. We have known what is best from the start.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Peacefully]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

No, we don’t need to take what we can get. If we are serious about this we need to have the best. That is totally within our reach. Mass produce the best, eliminate the rest, teach to the test. It’s so simple.  I think studying non-medical masks is a waste of time and resources IMO. We have known what is best from the start.

What should we do until we can get the best masks? 

[Bernard Gui]

37 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

" irresponsible and easily fixable." ...   no it is not going to be easily fixable. People are still believing that vaccines cause autism based on a well debunked single bad study by a shady researcher many years ago.  Just like the George Floyd fiasco that ignited a world wide response , all this poor messaging has fueled a worldwide hesitancy and contributed to many deaths. 

Aye, there’s the rub. All the theorizing and studying in the world means nothing unless we can account for human nature. Shaming, cancelling, silencing, ostracizing,  removing basic rights, and using brute force appear to be the go-to methods of dealing with it. In the meantime, it would be simple to stop the promotion and sale of less effective equipment and practices and replace them with better ones. Why not?

[Bernard Gui]

4 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

What should we do until we can get the best masks? 

Great question. You can already. But it’s more important how you use them. Giving a kid a Stradivarius and a pair of shoes will not help her play and dance like Lindsey Stirling. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

BTW, have you been teaching in the s

Ummmmmm…..I am a retired teacher and husband of a kindergarten teacher. 

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

don’t understand why this situation is allowed to continue.

How would you suggest forcing a change? 

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Thank you for sharing. I found that during my time as a teacher, older students were an effective window into the attitudes of their parents/carers. What adults say/do in their homes inevitably shows up in classrooms.

I noticed little prejudice towards fellow classmates up until junior high. By the time they got to high school though, many kids were splitting off into ethnic groups repeating what I heard from some of the parents.  East Asian parents saying white kids were lazy with no discipline and white parents saying Asians were snobs and various other things.  It was very sad for kids who had been best of friends when younger now being demanded by peers to ignore each other or worse. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

In the meantime, it would be simple to stop the promotion and sale of less effective equipment and practices and replace them with better ones. Why not?

You want the government to step in and prevent stores and websites from promoting masks of lower quality?  By what law could this be done?

Edited September 7, 2021 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I noticed little prejudice towards fellow classmates up until junior high. By the time they got to high school though, many kids were splitting off into ethnic groups repeating what I heard from some of the parents.  East Asian parents saying white kids were lazy with no discipline and white parents saying Asians were snobs and various other things.  It was very sad for kids who had been best of friends when younger now being demanded by peers to ignore each other or worse. 

Yep, that's precisely the age when it manifests. I remember conversations with parents telling me they had 'no idea' where little Johnny got his 'attitude' from, and I'd have to bite my tongue and just think, 'Well, I certainly do!'

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

How would you suggest forcing a change? 

Hopefully not by 'removing basic rights, and using brute force'!

[Rain]

41 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

We don’t have to settle for 0% or 20%. Why are we even talking about that choice? I’m for providing the best equipment and teaching the best procedures. I doubt there is anyone who follows even a few of the CDC guidelines. They are not taught at the public level. I’ll bet the vast majority of people don’t even know they exist. They are inconvenient. expensive, and time consuming, yet the CDC explicitly states that not following them  reduces mask efficacy and can actually increase the risk of infecting self or others. Have you heard this from the media? No, just constant scare stories. I don’t understand why this situation is allowed to continue. If you question it you are marginalized as an uncaring science-denying right-wing troglodyte toad-sucking hick conspiracy-theorist bigot.

Why should we settle for less than the best? Isn’t anyone curious why less effective masks are promoted with little of no mention by authorities that better ones offer more protection and teaching the correct way to use them is crucial? I am. 

Again, what do you want ME to do about it that will work?  What are you doing about it so we can follow your example?

Because I've got enough battles I'm fighting and if there isn't something effective I can do about this battle then I'm going to save my energy for the others.

[Bernard Gui]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

How would you suggest forcing a change? 

Force is not necessary. Well, ok. Anything the government mandates is ultimately at the point of a bayonet. 

If they are really concerned about reducing the carnage, serious actors in government and industry can get together and agree that it would best to mass produce, market, and distribute the best equipment….free to all if that would help…, and media, celebrities, and educators could disseminate the best science aka CDC guidelines to the public. Bill Gates and George Soros could fund Great Masks for Everyone. Get a free Starbucks latte if you wear a good mask.  

How hard would it be for social media to include a couple of CDC guidelines along with their automatic condescending fact-check messages that they attach every time a word associated with COVID is mentioned in a post? As easy as a few clicks in the keyboard. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

You want the government to step in and prevent stores and websites from promoting masks of lower quality?  By what law could this be done?

Already being done. Intrusive laws and policies about masks and vaccines are being inserted into our lives on every side. Why not do some that make sense?

Shaming, ostracizing, cancelling, silencing work well on the private side. At least on individuals. Why not labelling companies that sell inadequate equipment old fogey killers, selfish reprobates, etc.? 

[Calm]

59 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

If they are really concerned about reducing the carnage, serious actors in government and industry can get together and agree that it would best to mass produce, market, and distribute the best equipment….free to all if that would help…, and media, celebrities, and educators could disseminate the best science aka CDC guidelines to the public. 

How hard would it be for social media to include a couple of CDC guidelines along with their automatic condescending fact-check messages that they attach every time a word associated with COVID is mentioned in a post? As easy as a few clicks in the keyboard. 

All this is true, but it is irrelevant to reality. We do indeed have both hypocrites and deniers in enough levels of government an all for one approach is highly improbable. We had a president who wouldn’t wear a mask even when he was known to be sick with Covid and whose press conferences were full of misinformation. We have Governors who are penalizing those who want to push masks. And we have others who push masks publicly, but are inconsistent privately or who decided they knew best and treated the public like children by not being fully honest from the beginning. 
 

So given the reality of the unlikelihood federal and state governments, the executive and legislative branches will agree on an approach, what would you suggest as a workable option in our current state?

Edited September 7, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Why not labelling companies that sell inadequate equipment old fogey killers, selfish reprobates, etc.? 

Are you serious in suggesting this?  Because this doesn’t seem consistent with some of what you have said about shaming and such. 

[Peacefully]

18 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Great question. You can already. But it’s more important how you use them. Giving a kid a Stradivarius and a pair of shoes will not help her play and dance like Lindsey Stirling. 

I switched to KN95s recently. Unfortunately, they may not be available and/or affordable for everyone, yet. Until everyone can get them, wearing a cloth mask that covers the nose and mouth is better than no mask at all. I’ve seen my eight year old granddaughter and my six year old granddaughter (who has autism, btw) wear their masks correctly. I’ve taken the eight year old through two airports and two plane rides and she was great with her mask. 
 

I get what you are saying, but we aren’t there yet with the masks, so we do the best we can with what we have until the best is more readily available and affordable. It would also be great if adults could stop arguing about mask mandates and help the kids learn how to wear them correctly to protect themselves. Going back to some social distancing or virtual learning until the cases are back down wouldn’t go amiss. 
 

I wish we had more national leadership on this issue. I didn’t like the way it was handled by the former admin. I had high hopes for the current admin but it’s almost like the pandemic has been forgotten. I’m disappointed in our government leaders in the US, on both sides of the aisle. 

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, Rain said:

Again, what do you want ME to do about it that will work?  What are you doing about it so we can follow your example?

Because I've got enough battles I'm fighting and if there isn't something effective I can do about this battle then I'm going to save my energy for the others.

Why, I’m sharing my brilliance here on mormondialgues, and as the peones pass it on to their families and friends the goodness will ripple throughout our country and then into all the world. 😜

I get it. We are overwhelmed. We keep wearing our stylin’ homemade cloth masks and our ill-fitting Walmart doctors masks like we’ve been doing all along. Or we can get some better protection and check out the CDC website on how to use them. 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Rain]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Why, I’m sharing my brilliance here on mormondialgues, and as the peones pass it on to their families and friends the goodness will ripple throughout our country and then into all the world. 

And you honestly believe that those wearing no masks or badly wearing poor masks will change if I do? Real question.

Because I honestly think that no matter how I do that it will cause a greater rift between me and them and it won't get then to change their mind. 

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I get it. We are overwhelmed. We keep wearing our stylin’ homemade cloth masks and our ill-fitting Walmart doctors masks like we’ve been doing all along. Or we can get some better protection and check out the CDC website on how to use them. 

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

All this is true, but it is irrelevant to reality. We do indeed have both hypocrites and deniers in enough levels of government a all for one approach is highly improbable. We had a president who wouldn’t wear a mask even when he was known to be sick with Covid and whose press conferences were full of misinformation. We have Governors who are penalizing those who want to push masks. And we have others who push masks publicly, but are inconsistent privately or who decided they knew best and treated the public like children by not being fully honest from the beginning. 
 

So given the reality of the unlikelihood federal and state governments, the executive and legislative branches will agree on an approach, what would you suggest as a workable option in our current state?

Hey! I’m the one who is taking the heat for appealing to reality. Now we have a President who forgets where his masks are so he dangles them from his ears and touches them without sanitizing his hands, and a former President who hosts a monstrous birthday bash with singing and dancing and no masks……in public contradiction of the CDC guidelines. 😁

By the evidence of their inconsistent actions and words I think many of our leaders reveal that they are not truly  serious about masks. Perhaps they believe it’s not that important. Who knows?

Edited September 7, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, Rain said:

And you honestly believe that those wearing no masks or badly wearing poor masks will change if I do? Real question.

Because I honestly think that no matter how I do that it will cause a greater rift between me and them and it won't get then to change their mind. 

 

I guess we can just do our best with what we’ve got. I should have included a wise guy icon. 

[Bernard Gui]

20 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I switched to KN95s recently. Unfortunately, they may not be available and/or affordable for everyone, yet. Until everyone can get them, wearing a cloth mask that covers the nose and mouth is better than no mask at all. I’ve seen my eight year old granddaughter and my six year old granddaughter (who has autism, btw) wear their masks correctly. I’ve taken the eight year old through two airports and two plane rides and she was great with her mask. 
 

I get what you are saying, but we aren’t there yet with the masks, so we do the best we can with what we have until the best is more readily available and affordable. It would also be great if adults could stop arguing about mask mandates and help the kids learn how to wear them correctly to protect themselves. Going back to some social distancing or virtual learning until the cases are back down wouldn’t go amiss. 
 

I wish we had more national leadership on this issue. I didn’t like the way it was handled by the former admin. I had high hopes for the current admin but it’s almost like the pandemic has been forgotten. I’m disappointed in our government leaders in the US, on both sides of the aisle. 

You and me both. You’ve noticed the inconsistencies too? We are in cahoots on this.

Did the kids touch their masks or take them off and without sanitizing their hands? Or sneeze or cough into them and the replace them? Not being a wise guy, but if they didn’t do that they did not use them correctly….. according to the scientists at the CDC. But that doesn’t seem to be important. At least they were wearing something. In real life, none of us wears them correctly. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

But that doesn’t seem to be important. At least they were wearing something. In real life, none of us wears them correctly. 

That is likely true. But if we never tried to encourage behaviour except if it was perfect, we would all be couch potatoes. 
 

If we use the Gospel as an analogy, the Lord judges us not by how well he could do something, but by how well we can. 
 

And as a teacher, I assume you also wanted kids to at least try rather than give up if they couldn’t be sure to get it perfect?  To not let fear of failure prevent them from even starting. Modeling your own good behaviour and encouraging their not so good efforts as they came closer and closer over time to best behaviour?  Or did you criticize kids that were not able to hit the right note from the beginning?  

Edited September 7, 2021 by Calm

[Peacefully]

40 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

You and me both. You’ve noticed the inconsistencies too? We are in cahoots on this.

Did the kids touch their masks or take them off and without sanitizing their hands? Or sneeze or cough into them and the replace them? Not being a wise guy, but if they didn’t do that they did not use them correctly….. according to the scientists at the CDC. But that doesn’t seem to be important. At least they were wearing something. In real life, none of us wears them correctly. 

All I can say is that if all adults would wear masks as consistently and well as my granddaughters and other kids I’ve seen, I think cases here in Texas would be much lower. 

 

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Are you serious in suggesting this?  Because this doesn’t seem consistent with some of what you have said about shaming and such. 

Sorry. I should have pressed the sarcasm key.