Duncan Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 I know that D&C 66:2 says that the New and Everlasting Covenant and Gospel are the same but are they interchangeable with Atonement, Abrahamic Covenant?
JLHPROF Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 In my opinion they are not. The Abrahamic covenant is a specific covenant between God and Abraham and his posterity. The gospel applies to everyone, part of that covenant or not. The atonement is the central element of the New and Everlasting covenant but not every component of it. It's also important to note in D&C 66 that the New and Everlasting covenant is the Fullness of the Gospel. That includes all laws, ordinances, covenants etc. Not just the first principles. 2
Calm Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 We think of the Atonement as what Christ did in death and resurrection to open the door for us by his grace and which we may walk through with love and repentance. We don’t usually think of much else, but there are many things that are necessary to prepare to understand and accept the Atonement by the end, to have our hearts and minds readily open to the Lord. The Atonement could be the entire process. Could we call mortality The New and Everlasting since all that we do either points us towards it or away. 1
Kevin Christensen Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 I find this helpful, from an essay by Margaret Barker on "The Everlasting Covenant Between God and Every Living Creature." The link won't copy but you can Google the essay. Quote We usually assume that Matthew’s gospel was written for a community with Hebrew roots, and so he needed to define which of the many possible covenants Jesus meant. The covenant with Abram was a promise of land and had nothing to do with sin (Gen.15.18-21). The covenant that Moses mediated at Sinai was an agreement to observe the ten commandments and did not deal with putting away sin (Exod.24.8). The covenant with David was a promise that his heirs would be the rulers in Jerusalem and did not deal with putting away sin (2 Sam.7.12). The covenant with Noah was a promise that God would never again destroy the earth. It was the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth (Gen.9.16). Three of these - Abram’s, Noah’s and Moses’ - involved a blood sacrifice, but the Hebrew text does not obviously link any of them to ‘putting away sins’.1 And this: Quote The covenant underlying all the other covenants in the Old Testament was the everlasting covenant, which depicted heaven and earth bound together in one great system that encompassed the powers of heaven, the visible creation and human society. ‘All things visible and invisible’, as the Creed says, or, in the words of the Book of Revelation: ‘the myriads of angels... every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea and all therein’ (Rev.5.11, 13). The first book to draw attention to the everlasting covenant was Robert Murray’s The Cosmic Covenant, published in 1992.4 Fr Murray showed how the psalms and the prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Joel - all knew about the everlasting covenant. They presented it in forms that suggested temple liturgy, and central to the cosmic covenant was the sacral king who held all things together. The everlasting covenant protected all within it and kept away the chaos and disaster that would otherwise engulf everything. This was the divine wrath. The business of maintaining the covenant was entrusted to the sacral kings, the Melchi-Zedeks, who had rituals of atonement. Mary Douglas, the great anthropologist, made a special study of atonement and concluded that ideas of cleansing and purging, so often linked to the word atonement, have been imported into the texts by biblical scholars. According to Leviticus, she said, ‘to atone means to cover, or recover... repair a hole... mend a rift, .make good a torn or broken covering... It means making good an outer layer which has rotted or been pierced.’5 When a bond of the covenant was broken, the priests, and especially the MelchiZedeks, had to mend the breach and thus restore the broken bond before the wrath could break in and destroy. T And this: Quote The Day of Atonement was part of the ancient new year festival, when blood sprinkled around the temple represented life sprinkled onto the earth to cleanse and renew. It restored the everlasting covenant that bound the whole creation. The renewal of the earth preceded the enthronement of the sacral king, and so establishing the kingdom and restoring the everlasting covenant were linked. And that sort of thing led to these observations in my Paradigms Regained essay, after quoting from the Pearl of Great Price, Moses 7:45-67: Quote This fits with Barker’s notion of“recreation” as the “Lord [comes] forth from his holy place and established] his kingdom.”61 And once we start thinking in these terms, we can see that 3 Nephi 9-28 follows the same pattern: a renewal of the creation, the appearance of the Lord, and the establishment of his kingdom. Doctrine and Covenants 1:15, 22 describes the past “breaking” and current effort in “establishing the everlasting covenant.” Recall that Barker describes this covenant as “the system of bonds which restrained cosmic forces and maintained an ordered creation where people could live in peace and safety.”62 Doctrine and Covenants 88:7-13 may give the best description of those bonds: This is the light of Christ.... Which light proceeded: forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity ofspace—The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things. https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/sites/default/files/archive-files/pdf/christensen/2021-03-11/kevin_christensen_op2_paradigms_regained_2001.pdf FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA 2
provoman Posted August 5, 2021 Posted August 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Duncan said: I know that D&C 66:2 says that the New and Everlasting Covenant and Gospel are the same but are they interchangeable with Atonement, Abrahamic Covenant? 66:2 does not use "new and everlasting" Verily I say unto you, blessed are you for receiving mine aeverlasting covenant, even the fulness of my gospel, sent forth unto the children of men, that they might have life and be made partakers of the glories which are to be revealed in the last days, as it was written by the prophets and apostles in days of old. I would "everlasting covenant" And "atonement" are interchangable. "New and Everlasting" is Sealing of a marriage. 1
Calm Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 6 hours ago, provoman said: New and Everlasting" is Sealing of a marriage. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-22-baptism-a-new-and-everlasting-covenant?lang=eng
Navidad Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 21 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said: find this helpful, from an essay by Margaret Barker on "The Everlasting Covenant Between God and Every Living Creature." I think I have noticed you referring to Margaret Barker fairly often in your posts. I don't know much about her. I believe she is Methodist, is that correct? Is she a non-LDS Christian thinker (kind of like CS Lewis) who my LDS friends think highly of? (sorry for ending with a preposition).
Kevin Christensen Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) On 8/6/2021 at 9:48 AM, Navidad said: I think I have noticed you referring to Margaret Barker fairly often in your posts. I don't know much about her. I believe she is Methodist, is that correct? Is she a non-LDS Christian thinker (kind of like CS Lewis) who my LDS friends think highly of? (sorry for ending with a preposition). Margaret Barker is a Methodist preacher and Cambridge trained-Biblical scholar, living in Derbyshire, England. She was awarded a Doctrate by the Archbishop of Canterbury after the publication of her book Temple Themes in Christian Worship. His All Holiness Ecumunical Patriarch Bartholomew of the Othodox Church wrote the forward to her book on Creation: A Biblical Vision for the Environment. She is friends with N.T. Wright, and many other top scholars. She has published 18 books and many essays. Her original goal was to understand the origins of Christianity. How do you get from the sacrifice of animals to the sacrifice of one said to be the Son of God? The key to that, she decided, is to recover the First Temple tradition, to go back to Jerusalem, 600 BCE. In the introduction to her first book, The Older Testament, she has this: Quote "The life and work of Jesus were, and should be, interpreted in the light of something other than Jerusalem Judaism. This other had its roots in the conflicts of the sixth century B.c. when the traditions of the monarchy were divided as an inheritance amongst several heirs. It would have been lost but for the accidents of archaeological discovery and the evidence of pre-Christian texts preserved and transmitted only by Christian hands." A handful of LDS authors started quoting her fourth book, The Great Angel a Study of Israel's Second God in the mid 1990s. It was my seeing two of those quotations that allowed me to recognize a copy of The Great Angel as of interest during a visit to a Dallas Half Price Bookstore in 1999. I read it, and quickly acquired all the rest of her books and read them, contacted Barker in Sept 1999, had a brief exchange that was her first personal contact with the LDS. I wrote a little book called "Paradigms Regained: A Survey of Margaret Barker's Scholarship and Its Significance for Mormon Studies." https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/paradigms-regained-survey-margaret-barkers-scholarship-and-its-significance-mormon-studies I sent her a copy in early 2002, and she emailed back saying, "It came about five hours ago. I have read it already. I HAD NO IDEA that my work was of such interest for Mormon studies. Thank you for sending a copy, and for that matter, thanks for writing the book." A short time after that, Noel Reynolds of BYU read The Great Angel while flying back to Utah from a trip to the Vatican, and burst into the FARMS offices asking if anyone had heard of Margaret Barker. Lou Midgley informed Reynolds that they had just published Paradigms Regained. Reynolds got in touch with me and I put him in touch with Margaret, and he visited her in her home for a five hour visit. That led to her first visit to BYU in 2003 for a five day seminar that I was able attend. While there she told John Tvedtnes that one of the things that turned her to the Temple was an essay in Jewish Quarterly Review called "Christian Envy of the Temple," by one Hugh Nibley. She has since read and admired more of his work, though was not able to meet him personally. Since then, she has had many interactions with LDS scholars, including a 2005 talk on the Book of Mormon at the Library of Congress in Washington DC. https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/byusq/vol44/iss4/9/ a 2008 collaborative article with me on "Seeking the Face of the Lord: Joseph Smith and the First Temple tradition" published in Joseph Smith Jr. from Oxford University Press, and many visits to Utah for Temple Studies, BYU, and FAIR, and has had several LDS scholars visit her Temple Studies groups in England. Recently, Jack Welch of BYU invited her to attend the Paris Temple open house for a personal tour with the Temple President and Matron, and she was so impressed, she later asked if she could do it again in the Rome LDS Temple open house. I've written several more essays about her work, including The Deuteronomist Dechristianizing of the Old Testament, which makes the crucial points and relevance to LDS clear. https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/deuteronomist-de-christianizing-old-testament After reading another of my essays, in Glimpses of Lehi's Jerusalem, she sat down and read the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price in one day. "I was amazed at how much I recognized," she emailed. She had an exchange with Kevin Barney and told him "The key to everything is in what is missing from Genesis." She has a website, created for her by her daughter. http://www.margaretbarker.com/index.html She gives a charming personal account of the rise and results of her own interest in scholarship here: https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/questions-and-answers-margaret-barker-and-laurence-hemming And if you search for Margaret Barker on YouTube, there are many interesting talks, interviews, and sermons. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA Edited August 8, 2021 by Kevin Christensen fixed a date, various typos 3
Navidad Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 38 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said: Margaret Barker is a Method preacher and Cambridge trained-Biblical scholar, living in Derbyshire, England. She was awarded a Doctrate by the Archbishop of Canturbury after the publication of her book Temple Themes in Christian Worship. His All Holiness Ecumunical Patriarch Bartholomew of the Othodox Church wrote the forward to her book on Creation: A Biblical Vision for the Environment. She is friends with N.T. Wright, and many other top scholars. She has published 18 books and many essays. Her original goal was to understand the origins of Christianity. How do you get from the sacrifice of animals to the sacrifice of one said to be the Son of God? The key to that, she decided, to recover the First Temple tradition, to go back to Jerusalem, 600 BCE. In the introduction to her first book, The Older Testament, she has this: A handful of LDS authors started quoting her fourth book, The Great Angel a Study of Israel's Second God in the mid 1990s. It my seeing two of those quotations that allowed me to recognize a copy The Great Angel as of interest during a visit to a Dallas Half Price Bookstore in 1999. I read it, and quickly acquired all the rest of her books and read them, contacted Barker in Sept 1999, had a brief exchange that was her first personal contact with the LDS. I wrote a little book called "Paradigms Regained: A Survey of Margaret Barker's Scholarship and Its Significance for Mormon Studies." https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/paradigms-regained-survey-margaret-barkers-scholarship-and-its-significance-mormon-studies I sent her a copy in early 2001, and she emailed back saying, "It came about five hours ago. I have read it already. I HAD NO IDEA that my work was of such interest for Mormon studies. Thank you for sending a copy, and for that matter, thanks for writing the book." A short time after that, Noel Reynolds of BYU read The Great Angel while flying back to Utah from a trip to the Vatican, and burst into the FARMS offices asking if anyone had heard of Margaret Barker. Lou Midgley informed Reynolds that they had just published Paradigms Regained. Reynolds got in touch with me and I put him in touch with Margaret, and he visited her in her home for a five hour visit. That led to her first visit to BYU in 2003 for a five day seminar that I was able attend. While there she told John Tvedtnes that one of the things that turned her to the Temple was an essay in Jewish Quarterly Review called "Christian Envy of the Temple," by one Hugh Nibley. She has since read and admired more of his work, though was not able to meet him personally. Since then, she has had many interactions with LDS scholars, including a 2005 talk on the Book of Mormon at the Library of Congress in Washington DC. https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/byusq/vol44/iss4/9/ a 2008 collaborative article with me on "Seeking the Face of the Lord: Joseph Smith and the First Temple tradition" published in Joseph Smith Jr. from Oxford University Press, and many visits to Utah for Temple Studies, BYU, and FAIR, and has had several LDS scholars visit her Temple Studies groups in England. Recently, Jack Welch of BYU invited her to attend the Paris Temple open house for a personal tour with and the Temple President and Matron, and she was so impressed, she later asked if she could do it again in the Rome LDS Temple open house. I've written several more essays about her work, including The Deuteronomist Dechristianizing of the Old Testament, which makes the crucial points and relevance to LDS clear. https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/deuteronomist-de-christianizing-old-testament After reading another of my essays, in Glimpses of Lehi's Jerusalem, she sat down and read the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price in one day. "I was amazed at how much I recognized," she emailed. She had an exchange with Kevin Barney and told him "The key to everything is in what is missing from Genesis." She has a website, created for her by her daughter. http://www.margaretbarker.com/index.html She gives a charming personal account of the rise and results of her own interest in scholarship here: https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/questions-and-answers-margaret-barker-and-laurence-hemming And if you search for Margaret Barker on YouTube, there are many interesting talks, interviews, and sermons. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA Thanks. Fascinating. Now I have all my weekend reading arranged! I am working on Natural Law and Natural Rights as patrimony for 1930s Mexican scholars for my dissertation right now. Margaret Barker sounds much more interesting! Don't tell my advisor! Ha! 1
Kevin Christensen Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 A more recent Barker essay (2019) on the "Temple and the Covenant of Peace" is relevant to the thread as well. http://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/TempleCovenant2019.pdf FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA 1
CV75 Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) On 8/5/2021 at 8:48 AM, Duncan said: I know that D&C 66:2 says that the New and Everlasting Covenant and Gospel are the same but are they interchangeable with Atonement, Abrahamic Covenant? https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-instructors-guide-religion-324-325/the-everlasting-covenant-the-fulness-of-the-gospel-lesson-25-sections-66-68?lang=eng See the Theme Analysis for a summary: A. The new and everlasting covenant is the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 1. It is new because it has been revealed or restored in each dispensation of time. 2. It is everlasting because it never changes-the things that would save a man in Adam’s day are the very things that will save a man today. It is the "fulness of the gospel" because the covenant entails every ordinance of salvation and exaltation under proper authority. The gospel of course is that Christ Atoned for this occur, His Atonement itself being a covenant. The Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel (the "new covenant" -- D&C 84:57 -- and its relation to the blessings delineated in verses 99 - 102), which is why it is "Another Testament" (and a better one! ). Edited August 6, 2021 by CV75 2
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