rodheadlee Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 On 6/13/2021 at 9:13 AM, jkwilliams said: A friend of mine, who makes his living producing church-related materials, told me the other day that he is now in a “mixed-faith marriage.” He asked me what advice I would give after more than a decade in a similar situation. I’ve thought about this a lot over the years, and my conclusion is that you have to put the relationship first. If the love you have for each other is the focus of your relationship, you have a fighting chance. As long as your religious differences are the focus, you have little chance of a good outcome. This applies to all family and friend relationships, not just marriages. I’m sure I’m not the only poster here in a mixed-faith relationship. What other things work for you? It would depend on if the mixed faith was atheist/LDS or Christian/LDS, what actions or conversations would take place. A lot of good advice has been given here. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bob Crockett said: I'd say that approaches prevarication. I'm not accusing you of a lie, but of intentional evasion. The DN is the official organ of the church. It has been for more than 100 years. The church is the publisher. The publication committee is composed of apostles and other general authorities. When the DN ratcheted back its recent services to the public, it became more of an authorized mouthpiece for the church than a real newspaper. It is quite common for newspapers to be the official organs of some organization. The Washington Times has the same political philosophy, for example, of its owners, the Unification Church. The editorial board does not publish statements contrary to the philosophy of the publisher unless the publisher comes out to distance itself. When the multiple DN editors came out against Trump in 2016, many commentators expressed amazement and noticed that, indicating that the DN had never before done this in its history except once. After all these commentaries, the DN never came out with a statement saying that the editors did not express the views of the church. Gedecks' [sp] piece is quite significant if you care to read it. He is no local bum. He was of the opinion that the Republican Party's assertion that Trump could not be impeached because he was no longer in office was an exercise in cowardice. Strong words on the editorial page of the DN, and from a church lawyer. This isn't happenstance or serendipity, as you are wont to advance. 4 hours ago, Calm said: And yet there is a significant difference in how thevDN chooses to describe itself, a property of, vs an official publication of... https://www.thechurchnews.com https://www.deseret.com/pages/about-us 4 hours ago, Calm said: Also from the church’s official website: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/subscribe-to-get-church-news-deseret-news-national-edition?lang=eng How can it be called an “official organ” when it isn’t even considered an “official publication”? ”Includes perspectives harmonious to LDS standards” might be interpreted of editorials done by its own editors as in line with the Church, but I don’t think “includes” has to have a forced interpretation of “limited only to” Furthermore, anyone who is well acquainted with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints knows or should know that with rare exceptions it maintains a position of strict neutrality in political matters. If one were to apply Bob’s conception, one would have to conclude that anytime the newspaper took an editorial position on anything — no matter how pedestrian, no matter how secular, no matter how provincial, no matter how politically partisan — the newspaper would thereby be committing the Church to that position, whatever it might be. This makes no sense at all in light of the Church’s own repeated and frequent professions of political neutrality. Edited June 21, 2021 by Scott Lloyd 3
Bob Crockett Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Furthermore, anyone who is well acquainted with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints knows or should know that with rare exceptions it maintains a position of strict neutrality in political matters. If one were to apply Bob’s conception, one would have to conclude that anytime the newspaper took an editorial position on anything — no matter how pedestrian, no matter how secular, no matter how provincial, no matter how politically partisan — the newspaper would thereby be committing the Church to that position, whatever it might be. This makes no sense at all in light of the Church’s own repeated and frequent professions of political neutrality. No the Church does not do that. How was the MX Missile defeated? Pres Kimball came out against it in the DN. I admire DN editors for identifying Trump as the man we should not support and then later impeach.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said: No the Church does not do that. How was the MX Missile defeated? Pres Kimball came out against it in the DN. I admire DN editors for identifying Trump as the man we should not support and then later impeach. From “Newsroom” on the Church website: The Church’s mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral in matters of party politics. This applies in all of the many nations in which it is established. The Church does not: Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms. Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes. Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/political-neutrality President Kimball came out against the MX Missile. He didn’t come out against it “in the DN.” The Deseret News, like other news outlets, reported the Church leaders’ new position. Reporting it is not the same thing as driving it. Edited June 21, 2021 by Scott Lloyd 1
Calm Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: President Kimball came out against the MX Missile. He didn’t come out against it “in the DN.” The Deseret News, like other news outlets, reported the Church leaders’ new position. Reporting it is not the same thing as driving it. Quote The message was wired to the Utah and Nevada Congressional delegations and to President Reagan, whose Administration is reviewing options on how to deploy the multibillion-dollar nuclear weapons system. The statement was issued by the church's president, Spencer W. Kimball, and his two counsellors, N. Eldon Tanner and Marion G. Romney, at the headquarters here of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Bolded by me...this statement was not issued through DN just as Scott said. https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/06/us/mormon-church-opposes-placing-mx-missile-in-utah-and-nevada.html I had to check, my memory being what it is. Also: Quote Kimball, 86, spiritual leader to two-thirds of Utah's population, broke a long silence on the MX controversy and issued a 2 page statement criticizing the Air Force's proposal to deploy 200 MX missiles in a system of 4,600 shelters spread across the two Western states. The statement, also signed by Kimball's counselors N. Eldon Tanner and Marion G. Romney, was telegraphed to President Reagan, who has a committee studying whether to go ahead with the Air Force plan or find an alternative basing method https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/05/05/Mormons-Ask-Reagan-to-Find-Alternative-to-MX/7066357883200/ Statement was also published in the Ensign: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1981/06/news-of-the-church/first-presidency-statement-on-basing-of-mx-missile?lang=eng Edited June 21, 2021 by Calm 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: The DN is the official organ of the church. It has been for more than 100 years. The church is the publisher. The publication committee is composed of apostles and other general authorities. This (bolded portion) is incorrect. I don’t know what you mean by “publication committee,” but if you are referring to the former Deseret News board of directors, that was dissolved about 11 years ago as part of extensive corporate restructuring of the newspaper, KSL and digital media under Deseret Management Corp. Even before then, the General Authorities were removed from the Deseret News and other boards of directors of Church-owned companies in a move to have them focus more directly on ecclesiastical duties. Your understanding is rather badly garbled and out of date, Bob. You need to do a great deal more fact checking. Edited June 21, 2021 by Scott Lloyd 1
Bob Crockett Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 The two of you are not swayed by the facts. There were editorials against the MX, liquor by the drink, repeal of prohibition, ERA etc. All political issues. And as the Trib reported the paper came out previously in the past against a presidential candidate. Never mind the paper repeating Brigham Young's comments about hanging Buchanan.
Bob Crockett Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 Time for Saints everywhere to follow the paper's lead and denounce followers of Trump.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 21, 2021 Posted June 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said: Time for Saints everywhere to follow the paper's lead and denounce followers of Trump. I have often disagreed with the Deseret News editorial stance (even while employed there) and will undoubtedly do so in the future. The Saints are not bound by editorial positions the newspaper takes that do not coincide with the Church’s stated positions. You should not mislead people by implying that the newspaper’s editorial positions are ecclesiastically binding. 1
Bob Crockett Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I have often disagreed with the Deseret News editorial stance (even while employed there) and will undoubtedly do so in the future. The Saints are not bound by editorial positions the newspaper takes that do not coincide with the Church’s stated positions. You should not mislead people by implying that the newspaper’s editorial positions are ecclesiastically binding. And you should come to see the reality of DN positions, especially ones repeated many times. Learn to read the tea leaves rather than follow a socialistic immoral political figure.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said: And you should come to see the reality of DN positions, especially ones repeated many times. Learn to read the tea leaves rather than follow a socialistic immoral political figure. I told you I won’t get dragged into a political discussion. My purpose has been to confront your bogus assertion that Deseret News editorializing amounts to official Church position. We should leave it there, and you need to stop derailing this thread. 1
The Nehor Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Bob Crockett said: Time for Saints everywhere to follow the paper's lead and denounce followers of Trump. I admire the sentiment espoused and appreciate the way the Brethren have noticeably distanced themselves from the previous administration in ways that have never before occurred in my lifetime and I think based on comments about rancor it is clear where they stand. That being said It is a stretch to say that this is their direct communication. They have better methods to make it clear when they do or do not support something. We also have bits and pieces from scripture and other counsel: “Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold” “will act with integrity and sound judgment” “honest, good, and wise.” It is up to the individual to be led by good judgement and inspiration in identifying these qualities. 2
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