License

[Prof]

In D&C 57:9, Sidney Gilbert is instructed to get a license. Anyone know what the license is for?

[The Nehor]

Probably for transporting goods. Just based on context.

[JustAnAustralian]

From the "Joseph smith's revelations" manual 

"Oliver Cowdery and the others appointed to preach the gospel to the American Indians had been ordered off Indian lands; this revelation therefore provided another means for proselytizing. Ezra Booth, who arrived in Missouri just a few days after JS, later explained this provision as follows: “‘the Lord’s store-house,’ is to be furnished with goods suited to the Indian trade, and persons are to obtain license from the government to dispose of them to the Indians in their own territory; at the same time, they are to disseminate the principles of Mormonism among them.” Booth further claimed, “In addition to this, and to co-operate with it, it has been made known by revelation, that it will be pleasing to the Lord, should they form a matrimonial alliance with the Natives; and by this means the Elders, who comply with the thing so pleasing to the Lord, and for which the Lord has promised to bless those who do it abundantly, gain a residence in the Indian territory, independent of the agent.” Three decades later, William W. Phelps also recounted that JS dictated a revelation to this effect. (Ezra Booth, “Mormonism—Nos. VIII–IX,” Ohio Star [Ravenna], 8 Dec. 1831, "

Edited May 24, 2021 by JustAnAustralian

[Prof]

Thanks!!!

[Jamie]

25 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

From the "Joseph smith's revelations" manual 

"Oliver Cowdery and the others appointed to preach the gospel to the American Indians had been ordered off Indian lands; this revelation therefore provided another means for proselytizing. Ezra Booth, who arrived in Missouri just a few days after JS, later explained this provision as follows: “‘the Lord’s store-house,’ is to be furnished with goods suited to the Indian trade, and persons are to obtain license from the government to dispose of them to the Indians in their own territory; at the same time, they are to disseminate the principles of Mormonism among them.” Booth further claimed, “In addition to this, and to co-operate with it, it has been made known by revelation, that it will be pleasing to the Lord, should they form a matrimonial alliance with the Natives; and by this means the Elders, who comply with the thing so pleasing to the Lord, and for which the Lord has promised to bless those who do it abundantly, gain a residence in the Indian territory, independent of the agent.” Three decades later, William W. Phelps also recounted that JS dictated a revelation to this effect. (Ezra Booth, “Mormonism—Nos. VIII–IX,” Ohio Star [Ravenna], 8 Dec. 1831, "

Forming a family alliance with those I am teaching has always been my favorite way of sharing the gospel with others.  So many additional benefits.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Jamie said:

Forming a family alliance with those I am teaching has always been my favorite way of sharing the gospel with others.  So many additional benefits.

So Ammon should have married King Lamont’s daughter?

[Bernard Gui]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

So Ammon should have married King Lamont’s daughter?

Indeed. Such a marriage between the son and daughter of powerful royal tribal leaders would have resulted in the formation of a very powerful alliance. Think of the possibilities. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Indeed. Such a marriage between the son and daughter of powerful royal tribal leaders would have resulted in the formation of a very powerful alliance. Think of the possibilities. 

It was more likely Lamoni just wanted a grandson with a somewhat legitimate claim on the Nephite throne.

[Jamie]

9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It was more likely Lamoni just wanted a grandson with a somewhat legitimate claim on the Nephite throne.

A grandson that would have been Ammon's son, raised by him and his wife.  With Ammon as someone who was very wise in knowing how to share the gospel with others.

If Ammon was still single it would have been a wise move for him to marry someone with a close connection to Lamoni who he had also taught the gospel.  Unless maybe he fell in love with another good woman from his own clan.

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, Jamie said:

A grandson that would have been Ammon's son, raised by him and his wife.  With Ammon as someone who was very wise in knowing how to share the gospel with others.

If Ammon was still single it would have been a wise move for him to marry someone with a close connection to Lamoni who he had also taught the gospel.  Unless maybe he fell in love with another good woman from his own clan.

I suspect that if Ammon had gone along with this plan he would have faced a fatal 'accident' after the heir was born. No need to confuse the issue of who should be the next Nephite king by keeping him around.

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Jamie said:

grandson that would have been Ammon's son, raised by him and his wife.

Maybe not if he was off doing missionary work most of the time.  Travel took longer back then, even without the risks of imprisonment or death.

[Jamie]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Maybe not if he was off doing missionary work most of the time.  Travel took longer back then, even without the risks of imprisonment or death.

Eh, yeah, okay, maybe not, but I'd rather think Ammon would have been a good father with his family with him than away from home doing missionary work without his family with him.

[The Nehor]

28 minutes ago, Jamie said:

Eh, yeah, okay, maybe not, but I'd rather think Ammon would have been a good father with his family with him than away from home doing missionary work without his family with him.

The mission lasted 14 years and it does not look like there was much in the way of communication. Either the sons of Mosiah didn't have families or they were absent for about that long.

I am betting at least Aaron or Ammon had a family because one of them was the heir. The Book of Mormon is somewhat confusing to me on which of them was the eldest. In the first listing of the names Ammon is first suggesting he was the eldest. Yet later when King Mosiah asks the people who should rule they ask for Aaron. There is probably a story there but the Book of Mormon doesn't give it. My first thought is Ammon may have been a ******* but that seems out of character for Mosiah. Still possible. Maybe Aaron had an established family and Ammon and his spouse had no children? Sometimes monarchs skipped physically handicapped sons but Ammon appears to have been a warrior of some skill based on his ability to disarm his opponents with confidence.

They were adults before King Mosiah changed the running of the nation from a monarchy to the judgeship model and securing the line of succession would have been considered very important so they were probably encouraged or arranged into marriages quickly (some time between 14 and 16 most likely). They may have been able to send messages to their families at some intervals or visit home in shifts once the work got going but it is also possible they were out of contact for the whole 14 years.

[Jamie]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The mission lasted 14 years and it does not look like there was much in the way of communication. Either the sons of Mosiah didn't have families or they were absent for about that long.

Or they went back for visits or their family moved near them while they went on excursions, if they did have a family including a spouse.  Or if not they were free to marry and then stay as close to their families as they could.

 

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I am betting at least Aaron or Ammon had a family because one of them was the heir. The Book of Mormon is somewhat confusing to me on which of them was the eldest. In the first listing of the names Ammon is first suggesting he was the eldest. Yet later when King Mosiah asks the people who should rule they ask for Aaron. There is probably a story there but the Book of Mormon doesn't give it. My first thought is Ammon may have been a ******* but that seems out of character for Mosiah. Still possible. Maybe Aaron had an established family and Ammon and his spouse had no children? Sometimes monarchs skipped physically handicapped sons but Ammon appears to have been a warrior of some skill based on his ability to disarm his opponents with confidence.

They were adults before King Mosiah changed the running of the nation from a monarchy to the judgeship model and securing the line of succession would have been considered very important so they were probably encouraged or arranged into marriages quickly (some time between 14 and 16 most likely). They may have been able to send messages to their families at some intervals or visit home in shifts once the work got going but it is also possible they were out of contact for the whole 14 years.

When speculating or trying to fill in for missing fragments of information I think we generally use our own preferred ideas.  And either way I was simply pointing out there are many advantages to forming family alliances when teaching the gospel.

[The Nehor]

Just now, Jamie said:

Or they went back for visits or their family moved near them while they went on excursions, if they did have a family including a spouse.  Or if not they were free to marry and then stay as close to their families as they could.

It wasn't an excursion. They were going to preach to a people that largely wanted them dead. It would have been irresponsible to take a child on such a mission.

1 minute ago, Jamie said:

When speculating or trying to fill in for missing fragments of information I think we generally use our own preferred ideas.  And either way I was simply pointing out there are many advantages to forming family alliances when teaching the gospel.

You should tell Salt Lake that allowing the missionaries to date their investigators or the daughter of their investigators would be a vast improvement. I doubt they will go along with it. I have seen the results of such activities myself and they rarely end well.

[Jamie]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It wasn't an excursion. They were going to preach to a people that largely wanted them dead. It would have been irresponsible to take a child on such a mission.

Some people would say it would be irresponsible for a father and husband to go among people who wanted to kill him and that instead he should stay home to take care of his family.  I can still see how he could have done both.

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You should tell Salt Lake that allowing the missionaries to date their investigators or the daughter of their investigators would be a vast improvement. I doubt they will go along with it. I have seen the results of such activities myself and they rarely end well.

Members are supposed to be missionaries forever.  And we and others can share the gospel with others without without being called by Salt Lake City.

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It was more likely Lamoni just wanted a grandson with a somewhat legitimate claim on the Nephite throne.

Well, that’s one of the possibilities. He also wanted to one-up his dad and brothers. 

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You should tell Salt Lake that allowing the missionaries to date their investigators or the daughter of their investigators would be a vast improvement. I doubt they will go along with it. I have seen the results of such activities myself and they rarely end well.

A university student we were teaching in Costa Rica suggested the Mormons send all their missionaries to just one country at a time, get married to local girls or guys, convert them to the Church, have large families, and then send the next batch to another country, etc.

[InCognitus]

9 hours ago, Jamie said:

Eh, yeah, okay, maybe not, but I'd rather think Ammon would have been a good father with his family with him than away from home doing missionary work without his family with him.

I don't know about Ammon being a good father.  It seems like he had a temper.  I mean, like he got all up in arms about the whole Lamanite flock scattering incident at the waters of Sebus. 

[mfbukowski]

On 5/25/2021 at 2:41 PM, The Nehor said:

You should tell Salt Lake that allowing the missionaries to date their investigators or the daughter of their investigators would be a vast improvement. I doubt they will go along with it. I have seen the results of such activities myself and they rarely end well.

Me too.

The hormones are just too powerful at those ages, and there is more attraction because at last they have connections to a whole new pool of dateable candidates rather than the kids they were raised with

My kids complained that dating within the stake was like dating their siblings

Not very interesting 

 

[Jamie]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Me too.

The hormones are just too powerful at those ages, and there is more attraction because at last they have connections to a whole new pool of dateable candidates rather than the kids they were raised with

My kids complained that dating within the stake was like dating their siblings

Not very interesting 

 

Oh good grief.  I remember the days when high school sweethearts would get married, and everyone who attends the same high school is in the same stake. 

And no that did not mean they were all related, at least no more than how we are all related to each other.

[mfbukowski]

On 5/27/2021 at 9:31 AM, Jamie said:

Oh good grief.  I remember the days when high school sweethearts would get married, and everyone who attends the same high school is in the same stake. 

And no that did not mean they were all related, at least no more than how we are all related to each other.

Note your entire post is in past tense and represents a small town in Utah

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by mfbukowski