Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I don't have any interest in "reaming him out," but I would love to ask him about his motivations and also gauge his surprise at the staying power of the little movement he founded. He prophesied its “staying power” when he was in mortality; I don’t know why you think he would be surprised about it in the afterlife. Unless you’re implying that he lied when he prophesied it, which implication puts you and I in utter and complete disagreement. Edited May 6, 2021 by Scott Lloyd
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: He prophesied it’s “staying power” when he was in mortality; I don’t know why he would be surprised in the afterlife. Yes, he did. I just don't think he believed it.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Yes, he did. I just don't think he believed it. As I wrote in a revision to my post less than a minute ago, that puts you and I in utter and complete disagreement. Edited May 6, 2021 by Scott Lloyd
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: As wrote in a post less than a minute ago, that puts you and I in utter and complete disagreement. Obviously.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Obviously. It may be obvious, but I had to say it so that when I meet him in the after life, I can tell the prophet that I stood up for him.
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: It may be obvious, but I had to say it so that when I meet him in the after life, I can tell the prophet that I stood up for him. I'm not sure how that is standing up for him, but OK.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I'm not sure how that is standing up for him, but OK. Rejecting and opposing calumny directed at another is not standing up for him? I don’t follow your thinking here.
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: Rejecting and opposing calumny directed at another is not standing up for him? I don’t follow your thinking here. "Calumny: the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander." I'm not seeing it.
Teancum Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: I wonder how well that confidence will serve you when the moment of truth comes, but, to each his own, I suppose. The odds are largely in my favor.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: "Calumny: the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander." I'm not seeing it. More’s the pity. Falsely calling someone a liar fits comfortably under the definition of calumny.
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: More’s the pity. Falsely calling someone a liar fits comfortably under the definition of calumny. Sure, posting an opinion here is an intentionally false and defamatory statement to damage Joseph Smith's reputation. 🤣 Edited May 6, 2021 by jkwilliams
Teancum Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 2 hours ago, mfbukowski said: And I don't remember Gandalf teaching much about the gospel. Depends what gospel means. 😋 1
Teancum Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: If you’re talking about reaming him out, I doubt you’ll have the opportunity— or even the desire — when the time comes. I did not say reaming him out now did I? I doubt either one of us will ever get a chance to talk to him. But it is a nice fantasy or wish.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Sure, posting an opinion here is an intentionally false and defamatory statement to damage Joseph Smith's reputation. 🤣 As I said, I’ll be able to tell Joseph Smith one day that I didn’t let it pass without rejoinder.
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 Just now, Teancum said: I did not say reaming him out now did I? I doubt either one of us will ever get a chance to talk to him. But it is a nice fantasy or wish. Exactly, but you have to realize that even expressing that wish is defamatory and false. 😉 1
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: As I said, I’ll be able to tell Joseph Smith one day that I didn’t let it pass without rejoinder. I'm sure he'll appreciate that you have his back against such horrible calumny. 1
AtlanticMike Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 26 minutes ago, Calm said: it isn’t always love to not correct someone. If my daughter decides she will dump her insulin and chooses another way to control her blood sugar, it is not love for me not to remind her she is risking her health and even life by doing so I Agree with you. But I'm talking about religion. I've never found criticizing anyone who is going through a really tuff transition or a period in their life where they're questioning their religious beliefs as beneficial. I'm not saying Christ can't or even wouldn't possibly. I'm saying the Christ I know would use a loving approach most of the time. Matthew 22 37-39 "And he said to him, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself." I believe if there's any condemnation to be done or said, I'm leaving that up to Christ, me, I'll keep loving my fellow man and if there is ever any questions that arise I'll give it my best shot. 43 minutes ago, Calm said: For those who believe leaving the Church is risking eternal life, would not correcting what they believe are false beliefs also fall into such a category? Is it risking eternal life? One of the first threads I started on here was about is there progression between kingdoms. It was about half who said yes and the other half who said no. Could it possibly be that we prolong our progression for a while? Ultimately I think where you and I might see it differently is I believe that setting an example through the way I live my life can persuade people way more often than trying to convince them they might be taking a path that would risk eternal life. Throughout my life I've found any kind of constructive criticism when it comes to religion or politics usually ends up blowing up in my face, there's too much emotion involved. Personally, I think love bombing someone, making them feel special and showing them a positive attitude will eventually work out better. Eventually, if the person can't find peace, they'll possibly, and more than likely end up asking you how you stay so happy. Then you're free to tell them how the gospel has helped you. It's worked for me. 1 hour ago, Calm said: Jesus was not always someone’s best bud, he could be a loving, but authoritative father as well. Yes, I agree.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Teancum said: I did not say reaming him out now did I? I doubt either one of us will ever get a chance to talk to him. But it is a nice fantasy or wish. Not a fantasy on my part. I fully expect to meet him one day. Edited May 6, 2021 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I'm sure he'll appreciate that you have his back against such horrible calumny. Horrible or not, I’ll stand against it when I encounter it.
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Horrible or not, I’ll stand against it when I encounter it. So, one cannot express a negative opinion about Joseph Smith without it being calumny? Edited May 6, 2021 by jkwilliams
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 1 minute ago, jkwilliams said: So, one cannot express a negative opinion about Joseph Smith without it being calumny? If the shoe fits. …
Teancum Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Exactly, but you have to realize that even expressing that wish is defamatory and false. 😉 Well I am just an evil apostate. 😉
Teancum Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Not a fantasy on my part. I fully expect to meet Kim one day. I have expected a lot of things that turned out to be a fantasy. But as you noted to JKWilliams you and I won't agree on this.
jkwilliams Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: If the shoe fits. … It doesn't. That's the problem. There would have to be 1) a knowingly false statement that 2) was intended to defame. None of that happened. You say you like to stick to language with plain meaning, but you are straining the definition of "calumny" so far that you need a taffy puller. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted May 6, 2021 Posted May 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Teancum said: Well I am just an evil apostate. 😉 Not what I said. But assuming victim status can taste delicious. I get it.
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