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For the masons on the board: Arson of masonic temples


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Arsons of Masonic Halls:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/charges-approved-alleged-masonic-hall-arsonist-1.5971768

No one was hurt, thank goodness. No report of motive yet. 
 

Quote

The B.C. Prosecution Service has approved charges against the suspect of an alleged arson at one of three Masonic halls that caught fire in Metro Vancouver on Tuesday morning. 

Vancouver police say Benjamin Kohlman, 42, has been charged with one count of arson and one count of assaulting a police officer, in relation to the fire in Vancouver. 

In a written statement, Const. Tania Visintin said the two alleged arsons at Masonic halls in North Vancouver are still under investigation. 

 

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)

Possibly from his FB:

Quote

A Facebook post by a Ben Kohlman of Vancouver, B.C. published at 8:07 a.m. March 30, 2021 reads: "I just cleaned 3 satanic club houses and nobody could do anything."...

A response to Kohlman's post asks "what next?" to which Kohlman replied: "Run the device. It will stop the mind control. People are not that dumb but mind controlled with nanites."

Quote

The same Facebook account of "Ben Kohlman" of Vancouver includes a number of conspiracy theories and anti-Masonic sentiments.

"I'll bet the real Bible is hidden in the Vatican Library and the Bibles we see are corrupted," reads a post from early in the morning of March 30.

Kohlman also espouses anti-vaccination beliefs and theories.

"The radio said that they can vaccinate 33 000 per day. The 33 means it's a Freemason conspiracy. I bet those things are full of nano tech to spy on the whole world," reads a post from Jan. 8 of this year. 

Several of his posts are about freemasonry. "2019 Documentary on Freemasonry has been scrubbed from the internet along with most of other truth videos," he shared in December 2020.

Also in December, he posted about distrusting the media: "We should just stop denying ourselves and admit that Satanic secret societies control the news and lie every day. I mean it's obvious throughout Hollywood and politics. The word government literally means mind controllers. If you would just stop lying to yourself to make yourself feel better that this isn't actually happening then maybe we could do something about it. It is literally your fault that your children will be enslaved by technology because of your denial. Soon all money will be controlled by embedded microchips and the ability to purchase will be controlled by the Mind controllers who gradually strip you of all rights including international travel and recreational activities after work. We are good for building infrastructure and maintenance to them, that is all. Shut the news off, take your head out and look around. This is not because the government, the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, royals, and the like care about our well being. I know this falls on deaf ears but I have to say it anyways just in case some have the ability to reason. (Facepalm) It's hopeless!"

What we need is nanotechnology that inhibits the brain from making conspiracy theories. 
 

An FYI article:

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/vancouver-news/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-masons-in-bc-and-centuries-of-fear-surrounding-them-3590725

Edited by Calm
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I remember when I first learned that there were some similarities in the ritual to ours I was quite upset when reading websites and conspiracy theories especially the satanic stuff. Then either a poster told me or I concluded, can't remember, that satanists adopted the masonic ceremony and turned it into that. And then I read of all the wonderful things the masons do for the community and that helped. It's just a club for men basically, and hopefully a club for doing good. 

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TBH considering how people are nowadays i'm suprised there's not more of it.  Out here there are some lodges that date back to the old west, the ceilings have bullet holes in them.  This is one of the many reason why I'm partial to Utah, the Masons out there are top notch, I give the LDS church a lot of credit for the good people.  I've more than once corrected people who ran their mouths off about Mormons.  Anyway, as far as the fire goes, there's a lot of iffy things in the pacific NW.  Sadly, i've known more than my share of bad masons as well as good ones.  Problem is a lot of lodges wanted to keep their numbers up so some people in grand lodge would let in some bad people.  Basically, same thing you see with churches nowadays, no one is immune.  Sign of the times.

51 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 

I remember when I first learned that there were some similarities in the ritual to ours I was quite upset when reading websites and conspiracy theories especially the satanic stuff. Then either a poster told me or I concluded, can't remember, that satanists adopted the masonic ceremony and turned it into that. And then I read of all the wonderful things the masons do for the community and that helped. It's just a club for men basically, and hopefully a club for doing good. 

I won't go into too much detail, it'll just lead to a long drawn out internet fight and probably a closed thread.  This started on a good note, want to try to keep it that way.  Anyway, Joseph Smith was a mason as was a lot of his family and Brigham Young (I believe...)  There was a controversy over the nauvoo lodge, politics as always.  I'm probably the only person on one side of the family who thinks the saints there were in the right.  Hint hint, when you attract a lot of good people who work hard, build a good town and don't participate in a lot of the backstabbing politics both religious and civil that was happening back then, hmmm I'd take a good look in the mirror and ask maybe it's me that's the problem not the other guy.  Anyway, there's a lot of stuff that was said back and forth, one of them was Joseph Smith was made a master mason on sight and supposedly copied masonic degree work for the endowment ceremony.  I knew one guy who is an apostate, first wife was LDS.  He went through right before the changes in 2000-2001?  According to him, it was very, very similar to our degrees.  Take it for what it's worth, I have no dog in this fight, am really not religiously Christian anyway nor care to get into an internet shouting match over who's religious beliefs are right/wrong.  Just sharing my opinion and what i've learned over time.  TBH my attitude with any brother who has a gripe over this, take a hint from the Mormons and emphasize family values again.  That was one of the whole points of the craft, men regardless of beliefs meeting on the level and leaving petty religious squabbling at the door. 

Edited by poptart
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9 hours ago, Calm said:

What we need is nanotechnology that inhibits the brain from making conspiracy theories. 

Hard to do without also killing pattern recognition.

The internet exacerbated the problem. It used to be you had to look hard to find people into this stuff and hunt down books and newsletters. Now you can get reinforcement that you are not a lunatic by finding an internet safe space/asylum. It is the same reason a lot of vices that have shame attached are finding followers. Some communities should not exist.

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Unfortunately, a lot of these attitudes are spread by churches and so called "Bible teachers".  There are plenty of videos on Youtube of "Bible teachers" preaching against Freemasonry.  It's as if the churches have one month where they focus on anti-Mormonism, and the next month they focus on anti-Freemasonry. And when I encounter Christians who say things against Freemasonry and I question their sources or if I check their sources and tell them what they are saying against Freemasonry is false, then I get attacked for being a "Mormon" and someone defending Freemasonry (a double whammy).  (It's a good thing they don't know about my connections to the Illuminati.)

  

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On 4/1/2021 at 10:17 PM, InCognitus said:

Unfortunately, a lot of these attitudes are spread by churches and so called "Bible teachers".  There are plenty of videos on Youtube of "Bible teachers" preaching against Freemasonry.  It's as if the churches have one month where they focus on anti-Mormonism, and the next month they focus on anti-Freemasonry. And when I encounter Christians who say things against Freemasonry and I question their sources or if I check their sources and tell them what they are saying against Freemasonry is false, then I get attacked for being a "Mormon" and someone defending Freemasonry (a double whammy).  (It's a good thing they don't know about my connections to the Illuminati.)

  

For quite some time lots of folks in the Anglical Church were Freemasons, think some still are.  The Duke of Kent is even a member.

Grand Master - United Grand Lodge of England (ugle.org.uk)

In Germany the Lutherans let them use their churches, here stateside outside of the ELCA they will deny communion to freemasons.  It's disgusting, it's always in the states, the supposed bastion of religious freedom this nonsense happens.  And religious leaders wonder why millenials want nothing to do with them and nowadays vote accordingly.  

BTW, this is another reason why I like the LDS folks so much, besides you guys producing fantastic freemasons I love to sit in lodge with (When I do go...), anymore I get lumped in with you guys whenever I do bring up my affiliation (Which is rare...)

More time goes on, more I end up liking you guys, stuff like this just encourages me.  Thanks for standing up to bigotry, makes me feel better about when I've told religious relatives the LDS are very, very good people.  

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On 4/1/2021 at 11:17 PM, InCognitus said:

Unfortunately, a lot of these attitudes are spread by churches and so called "Bible teachers".  There are plenty of videos on Youtube of "Bible teachers" preaching against Freemasonry.  It's as if the churches have one month where they focus on anti-Mormonism, and the next month they focus on anti-Freemasonry. And when I encounter Christians who say things against Freemasonry and I question their sources or if I check their sources and tell them what they are saying against Freemasonry is false, then I get attacked for being a "Mormon" and someone defending Freemasonry (a double whammy).  (It's a good thing they don't know about my connections to the Illuminati.)

  

InCognitus, greeting. Hi calm and Tacenda. The Nehor and Poptart too!

I hope I may express my ideas here without being suspected of supporting arson. Heh.  

I think most people today agree with the foundational principles that dominate both "Mormonism" and Freemasonry. I certainly see parallels between the two. One of the most important is that both agree against the Catholic presupposition regarding the human need for something further, beyond man's nature, the supernatural, if souls and society may be redeemed. Modernism, as it was labelled by Pope St. Pius X a little over a hundred years ago, holds that an unjust dominion the Catholic Church held over the minds and hearts of Western Civilization for over a thousand years was at least detrimental, and perhaps even wicked. Free minds with free hearts were needed to inform the Catholic Church, and not the other way around. I think this is a fair analysis of the conflict between the interests of Freemasonry and that of Traditional Catholicism. Of course, as a Traditional Catholic, I take a different and positive view of the career of the Catholic Church as she has marched through the centuries. I lament to see the apparent triumph of "Enlightenment" ideals, which oppose the one true faith.

Do you know why, as a Catholic, I oppose attempts to "bring the Catholic Church into the 21st Century", a by-product of which is an intellectual conflict with Freemasonic ideas? Above all, it is because of my being convinced that Catholic history, from Pentecost until today is utterly defensible. More, Catholic history is glorious; it is wonderful. But secondly and significantly, it is because of my certain knowledge that even if I can defend the Former-day Saints (the early church), against apostasy, I could only be a Restorationist-in-Waiting, if the Catholic Church as late as the 20th Century, began in some way to deny Herself. 

I am very thankful for my experiences here and at the long defunct, but fondly remembered, Zion's Lighthouse Message Board. Without "Mormonism", I would have been much more susceptible to a compromise with Modernism today.  I won't take further time to articulate how I was prompted to further study into what has been happening to my Church during the times in which I am given to try to be her faithful soldier. But I hope that my writing here demonstrates a heart full of joy and love and best wishes to all the misled, which is, as I am forced to see it, practically the entire world. I can't hate anybody when I think this way. I sure don't want to light any fires! I know that when my heart and mind are informed according to the ancient CathoIic faith, I will love all those who oppose this faith both within and outside of the Catholic Church, "for they know not what they do". I fear that will sound arrogant to many ears today. I say to any who should think so, what would you have such an one as I believe?

Maybe I should keep my beliefs private? Providentially, this thread comes up about Freemasonry. I ask myself, should I by silence, acquiesce to the received wisdom? How do I begin to explain an opposition to something that seems so benign and benevolent with lofty goals and civic minded members that would wish no harm to anyone? This was I hope, a brief and prudent attempt to be forthcoming and explain myself.  

Happy Easter. All my best.

Rory               

Edited by 3DOP
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4 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

InCognitus, greeting. Hi calm and Tacenda.

I hope I may express my ideas here without being suspected of supporting arson. Heh.  

I think most people today agree with the foundational principles that dominate both "Mormonism" and Freemasonry. I certainly see parallels between the two. One of the most important is that both agree against the Catholic presupposition regarding the human need for something further, beyond man's nature, the supernatural, if souls and society may be redeemed. Modernism, as it was labelled by Pope St. Pius X a little over a hundred years ago, holds that an unjust dominion the Catholic Church held over the minds and hearts of Western Civilization for over a thousand years was at least detrimental, and perhaps even wicked. Free minds with free hearts were needed to inform the Catholic Church, and not the other way around. I think this is a fair analysis of the conflict between the interests of Freemasonry and that of Traditional Catholicism. Of course, as a Traditional Catholic, I take a different and positive view of the career of the Catholic Church as she has marched through the centuries. I lament to see the apparent triumph of "Enlightenment" ideals, which oppose the one true faith.

Do you know why, as a Catholic, I oppose attempts to "bring the Catholic Church into the 21st Century", a by-product of which is an intellectual conflict with Freemasonic ideas? Above all, it is because of my being convinced that Catholic history, from Pentecost until today is utterly defensible. More, Catholic history is glorious; it is wonderful. But secondly and significantly, it is because of my certain knowledge that even if I can defend the Former-day Saints (the early church), against apostasy, I could only be a Restorationist-in-Waiting, if the Catholic Church as late as the 20th Century, began in some way to deny Herself. 

I am very thankful for my experiences here and at the long defunct, but fondly remembered, Zion's Lighthouse Message Board. Without "Mormonism", I would have been much more susceptible to a compromise with Modernism today.  I won't take further time to articulate how I was prompted to further study into what has been happening to my Church during the times in which I am given to try to be her faithful soldier. But I hope that my writing here demonstrates a heart full of joy and love and best wishes to all the misled, which is nearly the entire world. I can't hate anybody when I think this way. I sure don't want to light any fires! I believe my heart and mind are formed according to the ancient CathoIic faith. Because of it, I love all those who oppose this faith both within and outside of the Catholic Church, "for they know not what they do". I fear that will sound arrogant to many ears today. I say to any who should think so, what would you have such an one as I believe?

Maybe I should keep my beliefs private? Providentially, this thread comes up about Freemasonry. I ask myself, should I by silence, acquiesce to the received wisdom? How do I begin to explain an opposition to something that seems so benign and benevolent with lofty goals and civic minded members that would wish no harm to anyone? This was I hope, a brief and prudent attempt to be forthcoming and explain myself.  

Happy Easter. All my best.

Rory               

That has to be one of the most civil things I've seen a Catholic who has no ties to Masonry and/or the LDS church have to say.  I've said it before, i'm a cultural Christian at best.  One side of the family has been in the craft for a while so I have my own takes on things.  It really is a shame that the USA is so divided on things like religion and politics.  Not sure if you know this, that was one of the points of the craft from the get go, for people of different Christian denominations to be able to meet on the level and get along.  I am a huge fan of the enlightenment ideals, as was my Uncle who was a past master.  Freemasonry also has some interesting history in my Home state.

Masonic Tourist: Celebrating the Masonic Legacy of Hawaii’s Last King - Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, S.J., U.S.A.

The LDS church has been very kind to the natives there, if it wasn't for BYUH my mom would not have had a shot at receiving the education she did.  Not saying the Catholic church did nothing there, they did to but for us personally, the LDS church was quite the blessing.  My hopes are as time goes on more people on the other side of the religious divide think like you do and we can all meet on the level.

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2 minutes ago, poptart said:

That has to be one of the most civil things I've seen a Catholic who has no ties to Masonry and/or the LDS church have to say.  I've said it before, i'm a cultural Christian at best.  One side of the family has been in the craft for a while so I have my own takes on things.  It really is a shame that the USA is so divided on things like religion and politics.  Not sure if you know this, that was one of the points of the craft from the get go, for people of different Christian denominations to be able to meet on the level and get along.  I am a huge fan of the enlightenment ideals, as was my Uncle who was a past master.  Freemasonry also has some interesting history in my Home state.

Masonic Tourist: Celebrating the Masonic Legacy of Hawaii’s Last King - Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, S.J., U.S.A.

The LDS church has been very kind to the natives there, if it wasn't for BYUH my mom would not have had a shot at receiving the education she did.  Not saying the Catholic church did nothing there, they did to but for us personally, the LDS church was quite the blessing.  My hopes are as time goes on more people on the other side of the religious divide think like you do and we can all meet on the level.

Hi poptart. By the way, I corrected my failure to greet you and The Nehor, but your post showed up before I could edit.

So. Thank you for the compliment. Here is the problem with your hopes that "as time goes on more people on the other side of the religious divide think like you [3DOP] do and we can all meet on the level":

3DOP is, I am sorry to say, the intellectual enemy to "meeting on the level". I am the bad guy who doesn't want peace, who is a cause of strife and division because he is a traditionalist, a fundamentalist, a dogmatist. The pope says things like this about us all the time as he seems to share your hopes. I fear that the pope follows a false peace, or a truce that makes it appear that all of Christendom and all religions deny that there is one true religion. I want a different kind of peace where we belong to the same true church, receive the same baptism, and worship the same God the same way. I want to go to church together with you all. I have never ceased saying that over the years here. I do not have, nor do I desire, the liberty to be satisfied with anything less. Naturalists like Pope Francis give up on those goals, which are heavenly, and reach for lower ones that are earthly.

Ecumenism is a naturalistic approach to finding peace on earth. Traditional Catholics believe that such hopes are doomed to failure. We have to look to Heaven, for supernatural ways, ways that man could never scheme in order to bring about world peace BECAUSE of the conversion of souls to the one true faith. The Message of Our Lady of Fatima is a stunning example of how popes of the 20th Century, were perhaps afraid to put Heaven to the test. "Despise not prophecies", wrote St. Paul. "Especially if they seem hard to believe", he might have added. A major part of that message is that the Blessed Mother who appeared to the three children in 1917 was asking the popes and all the bishops, to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Such a ceremony could take place in ten minutes but for political reasons, one may suppose, it has never been tried yet. Russia, or the Soviet Union, was officially an atheist, communist society, hostile to religion, at that time. In her message, Mary explained that if this ceremony was done, Russia would be converted and there would follow a happy era of world peace. If this ceremony were not performed, she affirmed there would be widespread wars, the errors of Russia would spread round the world, nations would be annihilated, and a diabolical disorientation would afflict the Catholic Church.

Can I blame the good popes who failed to follow Our Lady's message? I wasn't around in the 20's, 30's and 40's. I live in a time when the prophesy is fulfilled, unfortunately what is fulfilled is exactly what Our Lady said would happen if the popes did NOT take heed to her prophecy. But it gives me greater assurance than ever in the promise of the positive side! Here is another thing Mary confided to Sister Lucia. A pope would perform the ceremony, but it would "be late". The point is, this kind of supernaturalism and belief in the importance of a little religious ceremony doesn't meet with much approval from what you might call practical people. Catholics among them. People don't want to be gullible. Besides, people can save the day! I hold that people cannot save the day, and without supernatural intervention, (which I have every reason to believe is coming!), we are lost. Its fine either way, but I hope I live to see it, or have a good seat in God's kingdom above. You all understand that we believe that the physical offspring of Abraham will look upon Him who was pierced and repent? Oh to have that tension broken once and forever. (I am rambling now. But I want you to see that the natural hopes of all men are crumbs on the floor compared to the joyous feast that is promised and believed in since the Apostles, and supplemented by reminders from prophets through the ages.)    

In closing, I want to say that everybody wants world peace. I do not accuse anyone, including Freemasons, of wanting war and strife and hatred. Of course they should be applauded for being against that. But did Christ come in to the world for no more than that? Traditional Catholicism is only the enemy because it never ceases to announce that God's plan is not satisfied with naturalistic methods, or naturalistic goals that aim at suppression, as opposed to a true resolution of doctrinal differences. Traditional Catholicism will never be satisfied with a "peace" that ends up by compromising the only path to eternal life. A de-emphasis on the hereafter with an exaggeration on the present life ends in a form of "spiritualism" which sees dogmatic religion as the culprit getting in the way of peace in the world. In the end this naturalistic goal would try to replace any distinctive religions, with one hodge podge belief in a "God" who doesn't punish sin, and doesn't care what you believe as long as you are nice to each other. Is that the Gospel?

Poptart, I appreciate your concerns, and your compliments. My heart is on your side, please believe I have warm wishes for you, but the way I think? If I understand you correctly, the way I think is probably incompatible with any way that "we can all meet on the level". Sorry about that. I really am.

Rory       

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1 hour ago, 3DOP said:

Hi poptart. By the way, I corrected my failure to greet you and The Nehor, but your post showed up before I could edit.

So. Thank you for the compliment. Here is the problem with your hopes that "as time goes on more people on the other side of the religious divide think like you [3DOP] do and we can all meet on the level":

3DOP is, I am sorry to say, the intellectual enemy to "meeting on the level". I am the bad guy who doesn't want peace, who is a cause of strife and division because he is a traditionalist, a fundamentalist, a dogmatist. The pope says things like this about us all the time as he seems to share your hopes. I fear that the pope follows a false peace, or a truce that makes it appear that all of Christendom and all religions deny that there is one true religion. I want a different kind of peace where we belong to the same true church, receive the same baptism, and worship the same God the same way. I want to go to church together with you all. I have never ceased saying that over the years here. I do not have, nor do I desire, the liberty to be satisfied with anything less. Naturalists like Pope Francis give up on those goals, which are heavenly, and reach for lower ones that are earthly.

Ecumenism is a naturalistic approach to finding peace on earth. Traditional Catholics believe that such hopes are doomed to failure. We have to look to Heaven, for supernatural ways, ways that man could never scheme in order to bring about world peace BECAUSE of the conversion of souls to the one true faith. The Message of Our Lady of Fatima is a stunning example of how popes of the 20th Century, were perhaps afraid to put Heaven to the test. "Despise not prophecies", wrote St. Paul. "Especially if they seem hard to believe", he might have added. A major part of that message is that the Blessed Mother who appeared to the three children in 1917 was asking the popes and all the bishops, to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Such a ceremony could take place in ten minutes but for political reasons, one may suppose, it has never been tried yet. Russia, or the Soviet Union, was officially an atheist, communist society, hostile to religion, at that time. In her message, Mary explained that if this ceremony was done, Russia would be converted and there would follow a happy era of world peace. If this ceremony were not performed, she affirmed there would be widespread wars, the errors of Russia would spread round the world, nations would be annihilated, and a diabolical disorientation would afflict the Catholic Church.

Can I blame the good popes who failed to follow Our Lady's message? I wasn't around in the 20's, 30's and 40's. I live in a time when the prophesy is fulfilled, unfortunately what is fulfilled is exactly what Our Lady said would happen if the popes did NOT take heed to her prophecy. But it gives me greater assurance than ever in the promise of the positive side! Here is another thing Mary confided to Sister Lucia. A pope would perform the ceremony, but it would "be late". The point is, this kind of supernaturalism and belief in the importance of a little religious ceremony doesn't meet with much approval from what you might call practical people. Catholics among them. People don't want to be gullible. Besides, people can save the day! I hold that people cannot save the day, and without supernatural intervention, (which I have every reason to believe is coming!), we are lost. Its fine either way, but I hope I live to see it, or have a good seat in God's kingdom above. You all understand that we believe that the physical offspring of Abraham will look upon Him who was pierced and repent? Oh to have that tension broken once and forever. (I am rambling now. But I want you to see that the natural hopes of all men are crumbs on the floor compared to the joyous feast that is promised and believed in since the Apostles, and supplemented by reminders from prophets through the ages.)    

In closing, I want to say that everybody wants world peace. I do not accuse anyone, including Freemasons, of wanting war and strife and hatred. Of course they should be applauded for being against that. But did Christ come in to the world for no more than that? Traditional Catholicism is only the enemy because it never ceases to announce that God's plan is not satisfied with naturalistic methods, or naturalistic goals that aim at suppression, as opposed to a true resolution of doctrinal differences. Traditional Catholicism will never be satisfied with a "peace" that ends up by compromising the only path to eternal life. A de-emphasis on the hereafter with an exaggeration on the present life ends in a form of "spiritualism" which sees dogmatic religion as the culprit getting in the way of peace in the world. In the end this naturalistic goal would try to replace any distinctive religions, with one hodge podge belief in a "God" who doesn't punish sin, and doesn't care what you believe as long as you are nice to each other. Is that the Gospel?

Poptart, I appreciate your concerns, and your compliments. My heart is on your side, please believe I have warm wishes for you, but the way I think? If I understand you correctly, the way I think is probably incompatible with any way that "we can all meet on the level". Sorry about that. I really am.

Rory       

I said I hope we can meet on the level, I already knew that would likely not happen especially with the lions share of Christians here stateside.  This is also why I say I am a cultural Christian at most, besides not believing as you do, at my core my own values and most likely most of my concepts are foreign to you and yours, just saying.  Belief wise, mine are much more Buddhist with a sprinkling of Taoist, I think you know this.  Also, I am very much a naturalist.  While I can appreciate the art and music as well as contributions to civilization the Catholic and High churches have made, again I am as foreign to that set of people stateside as they are to me, it is what it is.  Thing is, besides having had family in the craft, there are Buddhist freemasons I know.  The son of the Bishop who runs the Nichiren mission of Hawaii is a SR mason as is one of the Nichiren clergy in Seattle.  We have our own take on things, most likely they are very, very different than what the USA would consider traditional Catholic.  Reason why I tend to pick on religious people here, only in this country can they get away with what they do, despairaging one group while demanding protections for theirs when the people they're harassed for decades get tired of it and rise up against them in great numbers.  Even amongst  our own there are groups we're not too thrilled with, we sure don't slander them like Christians here seem to do amongst their own kind. Considering less than half of the country no longer identifies as religious i'd think ecumenicalism would be all the more popular.  You may not like it but numbers wise, things are not on your side.  You can rally about your god all you like, it is what it is.  For those of us who have had to suffer religious bigotry we sure won't bling when the shoe is on the other foot.  I doubt most here would care a whole lot but their children and grand children will.  BTW, something about Russia, as brutal as the revolution was, the Tsars weren't exactly nice, they put the French kings to shame as far as brutal oppression of the poor.  When you oppress a group long enough sooner or later they get tired of it and bad things happen, it's simple cause and effect, one of the main principles of Buddhism.  It seems to be one of those things Christians here in this country struggle with, actions have consequences and there is such a thing as personal responsibility.  The ball has been in their court for a while now and far as I can tell, they're repeatedly dropped said ball and now are angry because the privilege they enjoyed at one time is fading fast.  This is one reason why I think so many of the Japanese here stateside have been reluctant to convert.  There are Japanese Christian churches esp. out west, but they are still ethnically Japanese/Asian.  Hakujin (whites) and others still attend but culturally they are different.  They also have relations with the Buddhist temples in the area, they have cultural celebrations yearly and work together.  For a while they have looked at Christians and the west and wondered.  When Japan sent their first diplomats to Europe they where quite shocked.  They were used to seeing Spaniards, Portuges and Dutchmen in their ports and had assumed Europe was this amazing place.  The filth, poor sanitation and ignorance of many astounded them.  I cannot emphasize enough that to this day I can't understand why in this country Christians in general seem to always be at each others throats.  Buddhist expression, it doesn't matter which teaching looses to which, it's all to the shame of the Buddha.

Ever heard of Tesshu Yamaoka?  He was Yoko Ono's great great great (etc.) grandfather, one of the most famous Meiji Samurai.  He met a Christian, Orthodox I believe.  (I do like them....), the Christian asked him about God and the samurai replied by pointing at himself, the Christian later on supposedly became an agnostic/athiest.  Tesshu was an accomplished student of Zen, he would meditate and train for hours.  Here people consider Buddhism a religion so in keeping with that you can easily say he put his religion into practice daily.  Buddhism is very much about personal responsibility and accountability, there's an expression from my school, counting the wealth of a rich man will not put one coin in your pocket.   Point i'm getting at, inter religious squabling really means little to me, you might as well be trying to explain to a blind person what an orange looks like.  I look at Christianity and while there are some I do like more than others I really see a lot of them esp. trinitarians as far more similar than they are different, their infighting is amusing and at the same time sad to watch.  They are losing, they are making enemies and instead of focusing on the greatest commandment that their gods son emphasized they'd rather play politics while waiting for their god to return and throw all the people they don't like into a lake of fire.   At least the LDS try, the amount of charity they did last year and continue to do is mind blowing.  Considering they've not seen the decline the other branches of the christian religion have numbers wise, i'd say they're winning the war for hearts and minds.  

No apologies, you are very much correct your thinking is most likely not only incompatible with mine, it is foreign.  At our core we are different people.  I'm just willing to be diplomatic about it.  

 

Edited by poptart
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